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      01-14-2019, 06:59 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I spent a couple of hotter than shit winters and colder than shit winters working on dairy farms. Most kids/young adults Iíve talked to about it in different conversations when stuff like that comes up canít fathom doing that kind of work. Nor riding a bike early in the morning delivering papers before school in junior high.
I fear that you're correct. Is our country raising a bunch of spoiled brat wimps? After working at our local university for 21 years, I sometimes suspect so.

My first job outside our home (yes, I had many home chores assigned to me at a young age) was selling the evening newspaper on a street corner downtown. I was 11 years old. Six miles round trip on my bicycle. Lucky if I made 5 cents in one evening. A few years later I really lucked out and landed a for-real paper route a few blocks away. I made $20.00 on a good month, rain or shine. Always rode my bicycle. I paid for my tires, brakes and wear and tear on my bicycle. Good business lessons.

My dad hired me as the janitor for his mom-and-pop TV store in 1964. I was a junior in high school. I did all of the dirty work, including cleaning the 2 restrooms. My reward was dad sat me down in the shop and taught me the basics of electronics repairs, IF I got my cleaning chores done and done well.

I ended up being the general manager of that store and half owner. I did have a little interlude between being the janitor and an electronics technician when the selective service nabbed me in the summer of 1967. I spent almost 3 years in the US Army, including 12 months boots-on-the-ground soldier in the 25th Infantry Division Artillery. That is another story about poverty, poor food, horrible living conditions, disease and hazards.

So, some might understand why I get a little annoyed when I see local college kids driving brand new cars while living in 5-star, hotel like dorms. I could almost accept that, except many looked down their respective noses at us mere staff technicians - the folks who quietly in the background kept the damned campus running smoothly.
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      01-14-2019, 07:37 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
How would you fix it? Let's hear your plan.
How about we focus on the largest single source of illegals? Those who overstay their visas. Maybe the answer is more investigators to find these people and kick them out?
Doesn't address border security at all.
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      01-14-2019, 07:46 PM   #377
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I'm sitting in LGA in NY delayed. Totally not helping my mood. This airport is the worst America has to offer
Truth!
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      01-14-2019, 07:51 PM   #378
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No way! I'm still waiting for my "taco truck on every corner" that hasn't happened. Get in line, pal.
I don't want taco trucks on my corners. You can get tacos anywhere. I want a tamales truck like they used to have in Denver.
That's fair.
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      01-14-2019, 07:51 PM   #379
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What's the over/under on this partial shutdown ending by The State of The Union speech on January 29th? 🤔
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      01-14-2019, 07:59 PM   #380
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looks like trump is losing the battle of public opinion

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...tdown-strategy
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      01-14-2019, 08:18 PM   #381
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looks like trump is losing the battle of public opinion

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...tdown-strategy
I was just reading that.
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      01-14-2019, 08:27 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
Both sides might not like my thoughts on this, but I am not really for kicking out the hard working illegal. I would rather find a way to make them legal as long as they are not in "default".

At the same time I do want to limit illegal immigration crossings for security purposes. We can then focus on our visa issues.
It used to be mutually beneficial. Mexicans and other Latin Americans would come work on the farms and other jobs in the US (mainly border states) and then mostly go home. The sheer numbers plus the drug trade fueled by US citizens unending appetite for illegal drugs messed it all up. Those days are never coming back. At least no time soon anyway.

Here is a quick and dirty history from the history channel. Xenophobia, scapegoating, outright racism, exploitation etc is nothing new.

https://www.history.com/news/the-bir...al-immigration
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      01-14-2019, 09:28 PM   #383
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Finally got around to building a link that starts this video at the point where POTUS does a total mic drop owning of ABC News' Johnathan Karl.

Why I totally love this moment is due to Karl's performance. He is so smug and condescending. He seems to imply that only a horrible, hateful, dummy would oppose opening the government to debate opening the government. POTUS so masterfully... in an impressively succinct way... shines a light on both Karl's stomach-turning bias; and the stupidity of viewing that route to a solution.

Great little example of why I love Donald J. Trump.

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      01-14-2019, 10:07 PM   #384
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Sure, Trump completely owns the press every day. They're left gasping all the time!

Or

Trump is a completely smug twit who gets owned by facts every day

Trump denies he ever worked for Russia http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46867932
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      01-14-2019, 10:19 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
No - because they still got to go ahead of my wife. I have spelled out my immigration reform plan before in previous posts - you are welcome to look it up and I stand by it.

In summation, it is basically a four part plan that must be instituted in order.

1) Lock down the border and other points of entry, which includes building a barrier, fence, or wall as well as massively increasing funding to DHS to increase the amount of officers we have at the border to man it properly. In addition, massively crack down on any visa overstays immediately.

2) Massively revamp our current immigration program to make it much easier to immigrate and become a citizen for those we as a country believe will benefit the USA.

3) Create a pathway for citizenship to those here in the country illegally that puts them at the back of the line from those who came here the right way. This pathway must include registering with INS and getting some sort of identification card that includes a background check to ensure you are not a criminal. You then receive a temporary special visa to work here while waiting on citizenship.

4) Anyone who does not register to become a legal citizen and is caught in this country illegally from that point on is harshly punished with prison time and then forcibly removed from the country and banned from ever entering again.
I just wanted to say I couldn't agree with your plan more.

I see immigration policy and immigration control as two entirely separate subjects.

It doesn't matter if you want an annual intake of millions of refugees/immigrants or an annual intake of zero; we should all be able to agree that whatever policy is chosen, it must be policed in a way that ensures adherence to that policy.

I think poor border control, weak punishments of illegal immigrants and poor policing mean that people who are able to set foot on US territory are rewarded for their effort. I think this is one of the worst ways of selecting your successful immigrants imaginable. Not only does this method not select the most deserving or most useful immigrants, but it rewards people for testing/breaching border security.

In Australia we call illegal immigrants "queue jumpers"; but the strongest criticism of Australian policy is that there actually isn't a legal immigration queue that you can join. The "queue jumpers" are actually the queue. In my opinion, if the annual immigrant intake is 1 or more, there needs to be an easily available, well documented way of people getting their name on the list of people considered for entry.

But those trying to enter via illegal means should be punished sufficiently that the rational decision is not to try.

Edit: and since it's such an endemic problem in the USA, I'd also be pushing for policy which punishes people who profit from illegal immigrants. On-the-spot fines for any employer or landlord; and asset-stripping and deportation or life-imprisonment of people smugglers.

Edit2: Since I think this is my first post in this thread, I'll clarify my position: I think Australia and the USA should drastically increase the legal migrant quota. I think a wall is a waste of money; but I think some form of physical barrier (eg. a fence) along the entire US/Mexico border is a very good use of US taxpayer money ... and I think that's probably what Trump will end up building for America. Physical security is multi-faceted - you need a physical barrier, and you need to fix the current (weak) immigration control legislation. Both of these things need to be done to fix the problem.

Last edited by xQx; 01-14-2019 at 10:30 PM..
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      01-14-2019, 10:31 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by xQx View Post
It doesn't matter if you want an annual intake of millions of refugees/immigrants or an annual intake of zero; we should all be able to agree that whatever policy is chosen, it is policed in a way that ensures adherence to that policy.
Hear! fucking-Hear!
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      01-15-2019, 06:40 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
No - because they still got to go ahead of my wife. I have spelled out my immigration reform plan before in previous posts - you are welcome to look it up and I stand by it.

In summation, it is basically a four part plan that must be instituted in order.

1) Lock down the border and other points of entry, which includes building a barrier, fence, or wall as well as massively increasing funding to DHS to increase the amount of officers we have at the border to man it properly. In addition, massively crack down on any visa overstays immediately.

2) Massively revamp our current immigration program to make it much easier to immigrate and become a citizen for those we as a country believe will benefit the USA.

3) Create a pathway for citizenship to those here in the country illegally that puts them at the back of the line from those who came here the right way. This pathway must include registering with INS and getting some sort of identification card that includes a background check to ensure you are not a criminal. You then receive a temporary special visa to work here while waiting on citizenship.

4) Anyone who does not register to become a legal citizen and is caught in this country illegally from that point on is harshly punished with prison time and then forcibly removed from the country and banned from ever entering again.
Sold. usshelena for President 2020
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      01-15-2019, 06:59 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
It used to be mutually beneficial. Mexicans and other Latin Americans would come work on the farms and other jobs in the US (mainly border states) and then mostly go home. The sheer numbers plus the drug trade fueled by US citizens unending appetite for illegal drugs messed it all up. Those days are never coming back. At least no time soon anyway.

Here is a quick and dirty history from the history channel. Xenophobia, scapegoating, outright racism, exploitation etc is nothing new.

https://www.history.com/news/the-bir...al-immigration
Still find it mind boggling that every time border security and illegal immigration is brought up you always manage to squeeze something about racism and xenophobia into the topics.
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      01-15-2019, 07:04 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Still find it mind boggling that every time border security and illegal immigration is brought up you always manage to squeeze something about racism and xenophobia into the topics.
So, I don’t care if you and others don’t see it, but it is a part of the story. Especially with a big section of Trump's base. And it is a big part of the history that repeats itself in the US over and over.

Why is the Canadian border never mentioned? Is there never any smuggling etc coming across that massive and largely unguarded border?

Last edited by minn19; 01-15-2019 at 08:07 AM..
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      01-15-2019, 08:32 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
So, I don’t care if you and others don’t see it, but it is a part of the story. Especially with a big section of Trump's base. And it is a big part of the history that repeats itself in the US over and over.

Why is the Canadian border never mentioned? Is there never any smuggling etc coming across that massive and largely unguarded border?
Because the majority of narcotics come from Central America, as do a large amount of our illegals. Mexico is one of the main transshipment points.
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      01-15-2019, 08:34 AM   #391
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Because the majority of narcotics come from Central America, as do a large amount of our illegals.
So you are ok with a large amount of narcotics and some illegals coming in from the northern side? I gotta say that is pretty telling and goes back to my previous post you commented on.

Again, the wall won't do shit to stem the flow of drugs. Slow some illegals down sure, but that is about it.
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      01-15-2019, 08:38 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
So you are ok with a large amount of narcotics and some illegals coming in from the northern side? I gotta say that is pretty telling and goes back to my previous post you commented on.

Again, the wall won't do shit to stem the flow of drugs. Slow some illegals down sure, but that is about it.
When did I say that? Again you are making shit up as you go along and putting words in my mouth. Based on DEA statistics the vast majority of our narcotics flow in through Mexico NOT Canada. Once Justin Trudeau opens Canada to who ever wants to show up we might have to rethink our strategy with the Northern border as well. Currently this is not an issue though.
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      01-15-2019, 08:41 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
1) Yep - my wife is from SA, and many of our family and friends immigrated to Oz when SA started to get a bit dodgy. You hit the point of one major problem here in the USA, in that it is extremely difficult to immigrate. You can't just come in - it is ridiculously complicated and nearly impossible to become a legal worker or citizen in the USA. That is a big part of the problem.

2) With respect to your point about policies to punish those profiting from illegals, we already have stringent laws and policies against this (think E-Verify, etc), the problem is that enforcement is lacking. My first and second points would address this. We don't need more laws for this, we just need to enforce the ones already on the books.




Thanks, but the problem is that my plan is something that everyone should support and I imagine that the bulk of Americans would support. The problem is that our lawmakers are overall and by majority, pieces of shit. Neither the Democrats or Republicans are in the least bit trustworthy and both sides know it. As such, the Democrats don't want any border security because they think the Republicans will never give them the pathway to citizenship after the border is secured. The Republicans don't want to agree to a pathway to citizenship first, because they feel if they do, then the Democrats would screw them over and never initiate proper border security. Unfortunately, both are probably correct.

The solution to the illegal immigration problem and to the border security problem is easy. Getting sleazy politicians to enact the will of the people is the real problem.




Come now, Minn, you are generally quite rational even if you and I disagree most times. It has been well documented, and I am sure you are well aware, that the vast (nearly 80-90%) of all human trafficking and drug trafficking occurs at the southern border. The major cause of this is that it is much easier to produce narcotics in countries south of the border than it is in Canada and it is much easier to traffic illegal items or people through those countries as well.

As with anything, you don't try and resolve the problem in the area where a minority of it occurs first, you try and resolve the problem where the bulk of the issues lie as a first step, then you work on the smaller concerns later.
Thank you, as are you. Look it up, criminals are going to find the path of least resistance and right now that is rapidly becoming the Canadian border, especially with drugs and human trafficking is on the increase. As I said, we are ok with some of it? I thought we wanted BORDER security of which the Canadian one is a lot longer and much much less guarded than the southern one.

I still remember the story where a terrorist was caught trying to cross into Washington State and planned to detonate a bomb in Seattle. I think it was during New Year celebration, but I would have to look it up. Luckily he was an idiot and went through a border crossing. But, it still took a very perceptive border guard to stop it.
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      01-15-2019, 08:42 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
When did I say that? Again you are making shit up as you go along and putting words in my mouth. Based on DEA statistics the vast majority of our narcotics flow in through Mexico NOT Canada. Once Justin Trudeau opens Canada to who ever wants to show up we might have to rethink our strategy with the Northern border as well. Currently this is not an issue though.
You are saying it without even knowing and no I'm not making shit up. You are free to do the research if you like, but you as with the vast majority of Trump's base are fixated solely on the southern border in regards to BORDER SECURITY. I get very curious as to why that is.
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      01-15-2019, 08:47 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
You are saying without even knowing and no I'm not making shit up. You are free to do the research if you like, but you as with the vast majority of Trump's base are fixated solely on the southern border in regards to BORDER SECURITY. I get very curious as to why that is.
No I do know it's easy to look up DEA statistics. I do have many friends in LE but I don't even have to waste their time asking about this given the evidence is out there.

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/fi...resolution.pdf

Gee MEXICO seems to come up again, again, and again.


As CPD abuse has increased significantly, traffickers are now disguising other opioids as CPDs
in attempts to gain access to new users. Most individuals who report misuse of prescription
pain relievers cite physical pain as the most common reason for abuse; these misused pain
relievers are most frequently obtained from a friend or relative.

Heroin: Heroin use and availability continue to increase in the United States. The occurrence
of heroin mixed with fentanyl is also increasing. Mexico remains the primary source of heroin
available in the United States according to all available sources of intelligence, including law
enforcement investigations and scientific data. Further, significant increases in opium poppy
cultivation and heroin production in Mexico allow Mexican TCOs to supply high-purity, low-cost
heroin, even as U.S. demand has continued to increase.

Fentanyl and Other Synthetic Opioids: Illicit fentanyl and other synthetic opioids — primarily
sourced from China and Mexico—are now the most lethal category of opioids used in the
United States. Traffickers— wittingly or unwittingly— are increasingly selling fentanyl to users
without mixing it with any other controlled substances and are also increasingly selling fentanyl
in the form of counterfeit prescription pills. Fentanyl suppliers will continue to experiment with
new fentanyl-related substances and adjust supplies in attempts to circumvent new regulations
imposed by the United States, China, and Mexico.

Cocaine: Cocaine availability and use in the United States have rebounded, in large part
due to the significant increases in coca cultivation and cocaine production in Colombia. As a
result, past-year cocaine initiates and cocaine-involved overdose deaths are exceeding 2007
benchmark levels. Simultaneously, the increasing presence of fentanyl in the cocaine supply,
likely related to the ongoing opioid crisis, is exacerbating the re-merging cocaine threat.

Methamphetamine: Methamphetamine remains prevalent and widely available, with most of
the methamphetamine available in the United States being produced in Mexico and smuggled
across the Southwest Border (SWB). Domestic production occurs at much lower levels than
in Mexico, and seizures of domestic methamphetamine laboratories have declined steadily for
many years.

Marijuana: Marijuana remains the most commonly used illicit drug in the United States. The
overall landscape continues to evolve; although still illegal under Federal law, more states
have passed legislation regarding the possession, use, and cultivation of marijuana and its
associated products. Although seizure amounts coming across the SWB have decreased in
recent years, Mexico remains the most significant foreign source for marijuana available in the
United States. Domestic marijuana production continues to increase, as does the availability
and production of marijuana-related products.

New Psychoactive Substances (NPS): The number of new NPS continues to increase
worldwide, but remains a limited threat in the United States compared to other widely available
illicit drugs. China remains the primary source for the synthetic cannabinoids and synthetic
cathinones that are trafficked into the United States. The availability and popularity of specific
NPS in the United States continues to change every year, as traffickers experiment with new
and unregulated substances.

Mexican Transnational Criminal Organizations (TCOs): Mexican TCOs remain the greatest
criminal drug threat to the United States; no other group is currently positioned to challenge
them. The Sinaloa Cartel maintains the most expansive footprint in the United States, while
Cartel Jalisco Nueva Generacion’s (CJNG) domestic presence has significantly expanded in
the past few years. Although 2017 drug-related murders in Mexico surpassed previous levels
of violence, U.S.-based Mexican TCO members generally refrain from extending inter-cartel
conflicts domestically.
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      01-15-2019, 08:47 AM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
The problem is - that for every 10 coming across Canada, there are 1,000 coming across from Mexico.

Common sense dictates that you resolve the source of the majority of problems first, then you work on the next problem.
Check the drug smuggling etc and the border patrol wants more resources especially for the NE area. Again, that is never talked about, why?

Is there a documented case from the south like the one I talked about from the North that foiled a terrorist attack? I'm guessing there has to be, but I have I honestly don't remember.

Regardless, the Republicans led by Trump say we need secure borders. Does that not cover the Northern one as well? Why does Trump and the Republicans never talk about the other one? Or am I missing the part of the rants/speeches where he says only the southern border is where we want security?
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