10-17-2021, 04:26 AM | #89 | |
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If you want to do an approximation as to what an iG20 weight might look like, you look at a G26 vs i4 M50 similarly specified, look at the difference, then spec a *similar* G20 and add the weight, you don't jump to the G20 with a different engine / drive train as you have. If you do want to use the 330i as a baseline, then using an M430i GC vs i4 M50, you get a hypothetical weight of 4741 lbs - very similar to my original number. Speculation aside, and as you say - a teardown will help... |
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10-17-2021, 12:05 PM | #90 | |
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It looks like G20 to G26 chassis have similar curb weights:
330i vs. 430i - 3560lb vs. 3578lb M340i vs. M440i - 3876lb vs. 3858lb Comparing 330i/430i vs. i4 40 RWD(4519lb), the weight increase is around 950lb. This MT review says this about M50's weight: "The handling was a different story. Here, the weight does show up, and its ill effects are compounded by the M50's steering feel." I am looking forward to someone(e.g. BMW) EV that is as light-feet and competent around corners/curves as G20. https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...-drive-review/ I also just notice i4 is coded as G26 BEV. Quote:
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10-17-2021, 01:11 PM | #91 | |
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Thank You, All these guys have never driven a TM3. And we are all forgetting about the charging network. In the US specifically a big city like New York. Most city dwellers live in building. which means you can't charge your car at home. But you don't need to worry because there are at least 5 Superchargers locations within a 10 mile radius. Another thing the car doesn't have a FRUNK! i don't use my Model 3 front trunk often but dammit it's an EV with a long hood like that they dropped the ball with that one. Also why does going to Texas change anything? California is becoming a terrible place to live for big businesses. if anything they'll have a bigger HQ in Texas and hopefully start a QA (Quality Assurance) team. IMO the Model 3 is still a better all around car you guys just want the Badge. Yes they are everywhere but so are BMWs most people don't know the difference between a i4 and a 430i please! |
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10-17-2021, 02:27 PM | #92 | ||
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2. I live in the Bay Area and have a house. Charging network matters not to me. For the most part US in general isn't ready for EV. Having to go somewhere and wait to charge is just a pain. Apartment buildings and where people park need to have charging installed. If you don't live where you have a L2 charging station at home a EV doesn't make a whole lot of sense. YMMV 3. Frunk? Really? The i4 has more storage even without a frunk and even more if you drop the seats. Moving out of California? That's a personal thing when my tax dollars and Ca. tax breaks allowed Tesla to actually thrive. He got huge tax break in Fremont for the old NUMMI plant and the associated buildings along with facilities in Stockton and Lathrop. Ca is doesn't see Apple, Nvidia, AMD, Lucid, etc and others leaving. Elon was pissed because Ca. wouldn't allow him to stay open during the initial stages of Covid. whatever. Elon is a big baby. Rich but he's still a big baby that throws tantrums and doesn't know how to STFU which is why he's always in trouble with the SEC. The TM3 a better car? That is subjective and based on your checklist of features. Fit and finish matters to me. I don't like fake leather. I don't like a choice of either black or white for interior colors. I don't like the color selection or the exterior or the paint quality. I don't like the false marketing of L2 ADAS as autopilot and full self driving. I have a nephew that worked at Tesla for several years and he said he might would buy a Model S or X but never a Model 3. If you don't like the i4; don't buy one. But don't come to a BMW forum dedicated to an i4 and think you can come here touting your praises for a TM3 and go unchecked. TM3, ad nauseum. Yawn. The Chevy Bolt offers better value than a TM3. Yes, I own one.
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10-17-2021, 02:39 PM | #93 | |
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The G26 430i GC is 309 lbs > G20 330i. The G26 M440i xDrive is 198 lbs > G20 M340i xDrive. Looking at *all* of the motor press reviews, on balance, they're quite positive. You must keep in mind that the G26 is a bigger and heavier vehicle than G20 in ICE form. Table of weights below. Hopefully if they do a G20 variant it will be more nimble but as you say, still ~1000 lbs > than the ICE equivalent. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...-testing-again Last edited by 4monks; 10-17-2021 at 02:44 PM.. |
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10-17-2021, 03:00 PM | #94 | |
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You are correct, G20 sedan and G22 coupe are close in curb weights, but G26 GC is extra 200+lb on top of G22 coupe. I think the G26 hatchback adds quite a bit of rear weight.
Wow I will be interested in G20 BEV. Quote:
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10-17-2021, 03:20 PM | #95 | ||
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Those frameless doors in the GC requires the roof structure be beefier for the same roll over protection. The 3 series has frames on the windows. That being said a 3 series electric will be.cool. I would buy either in the M50 form. It just happens the 4 GC is available first.
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10-17-2021, 03:44 PM | #96 | |
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10-17-2021, 06:20 PM | #98 | |
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10-17-2021, 08:01 PM | #99 |
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10-17-2021, 08:47 PM | #100 | |
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In conclusion, my unbiased argument was that the Model3P is an overall better Car for the package than the i4 M50, right now anyways. Personally i see no reason to let go my M3P for a i4 im most likely going to get an LCI G80 M3. the Model 3 gives you more out of being a DD in my opinion. you mentioned how the US isn't ready for EVs. that is correct but the US is ready for Tesla's and that's a fact. can you drive aross the country in any Tesla? YES! can you do that with any other EV? (as easily) NO! especially your Bolt lol. |
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10-17-2021, 09:33 PM | #101 | ||
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The quality is sub par and if Chevy made a car with the fit and finish of a TM3 they would get blasted in the press. I have a Chevy Bolt that is quality wise head and shoulders above Tesla and I could get leather in it. I don't like them marketing L2 ADAS as FSD when it never will be that. It will always require your hands on the wheels. The redundancy required for L4/L5 autonomous isn't there. I don't lie that they give you a delivery date and if the demand for more expensive cars goes up, they slip your date to make money. I do t like that they will attempt to raise the price of a car already under contract. I don't like the styling of a TM3 at all. I have plenty of reasons not to like Tesla and none of them involve my like for BMW. My dislike of Tesla is completely orthogonal to what I think of BMW. I like plenty of cars and some are competitors to BMW. I'm a car guy and Tesla is a rolling iPad. There are people that keep trying to push the TM3 as better than the i4 because they like Tesla. I like the Taycan, Lucid Air and others. Just too rich for my blood.
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10-17-2021, 10:31 PM | #102 | ||
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Fires are about 10x more likely to happen on ice cars than EVs when compared by miles driven |
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10-17-2021, 10:39 PM | #103 | |
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Getting to full auto pilot from a tech and legal perspective i think its very tricky and that will no doubt take time at least until most other car brands reach a the level of self driving as Tesla is. there is still a lot of variables and unknowns e.g. if the car crashes in autopilot causes property damage or runs over someone and kills them or trys to avoid traffic and destroys property. How will auto insurance handle those cases. i could be a crap driver and hit someone but blame it on autopilot and try to sue. too much variables indeed. Lastly, Aw man i'm a bigger Porsche fan than BMW. to be honest i just need the charging infrastructure to get to the level of Tesla and im sold ill sell this ipad on wheels real quick. But until then ill deal with the crappy build quality there are mods to make the interior better so it is what it is. |
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10-17-2021, 10:46 PM | #104 | |
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Of course Tesla can't tell customers about such deficiencies. As far as fire risks, embedded in the 10x number is the relevant stats of half-day electric fires caused by impact, vs. half-hour gasoline fires caused by impact. |
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10-17-2021, 10:54 PM | #105 | ||
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GM Super Cruise is hands free on the freeway. Tesla is behind Cruise. Cruise has permits in California for driverless taxis. So does Waymo. Tesla doesn't lead. I have been doing ADAS and ASIL (ISO26262) for years. The marketing hype is a good reason why not to buy a Tesla. They are camera only without redundant cameras. You can never be hands off without redundancy and graceful fail. Elon musk says you can, but they play fast and loose with driver safety.
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10-17-2021, 10:59 PM | #106 | |
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I think Tesla does plan to open up Supercharger network, which is funded by $1.5B tax money anyway. So Tesla can't really reserve its publicly funded charging network to its well-healed customers.
I did have a Model 3 on order but Tesla had no car for me. They did switch and bait to a M3P for $20k extra for immediate delivery, and I declined(and bought a G20 330i instead). I would say in CA the emission and running cost of current gens of ICE, BEV, and PHEV are pretty close, so I should be OK for the next 6-10 years. As far as FSD, I will pay for it when automakers(e.g. Tesla, BMW) assume full liabilities, or else I don't want any FSD HW/SW at all. Quote:
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10-17-2021, 11:12 PM | #107 | |
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E.g. their next gen battery pack does not even have skateboard, and front/rear subframes are bolted directly to the battery pack. So one (even small) hit to the side may total the car. As far as camera-only system, I do want to see head-to-head quantitative measurement of Tesla's, vs. others with radar(that big grille of latest BMWs serves another important function). |
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10-17-2021, 11:22 PM | #108 | |||
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Seems to me like Cruise an other systems might not be maybe good enough vision wise that they need to really on other sensors for accuracy I believe teslas have several cameras so not sure what you mean with redundant cameras, there are probably like 8-10 cameras Humans have no radars and only 2 eyes, so not sure how 10 cameras processed concurrently can't eventually be as effective |
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10-17-2021, 11:26 PM | #109 | ||
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10-17-2021, 11:59 PM | #110 | |
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Human eyes are very good at resolving contrast while capturing fine details, and the ocular nerves at the back of the eyes are basically extension of brain stem, and 30-40% of brain cells are for vision. What humans lack are reaction times that computers are good at. Last edited by bavarianride; 10-18-2021 at 12:33 AM.. |
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