09-18-2024, 11:49 AM | #67 | |
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Anecdotally, I have never met an ///M driver in the real world who was on forums or who had even heard of E46Fanatics, Bimmerpost, etc. (…outside of BMW events or enthusiasts events)……and I purposely ask every one of them I come into contact with. They are regular people who just wanted whatever was BMW’s top shelf performance offering. They weren’t diehards. They didn’t order their cars. They didn’t even necessarily hunt for deals as many are happy to detail the ADM they paid in addition to the price of their cars. The same applies to Porsche drivers and RennList. I mean, who hasn’t heard of RennList, right?!? Well I have yet to come across a 911 driver who ventures onto that site either. I spend my entire shift - 16 hours a day - in a black and white, driving around communities and talking to every perceived enthusiast I can find here in So.Cal. After all, I’m a car guy so I enjoy talking to car people. We all know forums represent and/or encompass a very small percentage of actual buyers, but it always surprises me when arguably the two largest forums for BMW and Porsche aren’t even on the average buyer’s radar. I wasn’t disregarding the critical assessment in the manner you interpreted, but I was offering perspective to temper that assessment because “we” are not exactly who businesses build cars for. Building them how some of us would prefer would result in poor overall sales. Very few people who are self-proclaimed purists are actually that which they align with. I don’t see very many low-optioned, built for the thrill of the drive builds. Majority of these builds check nearly every box; nearly every creature comfort. Purists they/we are not. |
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09-18-2024, 01:26 PM | #69 | |
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09-18-2024, 03:19 PM | #70 | |
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All in all I am not disagreeing with you, although then - both camps - ones justifying or criticizing the design direction (the ones like me) are missing the whole point of what drives the sales. Rude awakening and the reaction to this thread/ new post then also seems very insignificant. I appreciate your perspectives and sharing the anecdotes. Sales numbers we could say have no correlation to the design direction. It’s the novelty that probably drives sales up. Dropping this though, and I am sure this will sell well in the Chinese market it’s made for, and also elsewhere. After all it has the BMW logo and the ///M emblem.
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09-18-2024, 03:32 PM | #71 |
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Not a single one of those names - I looked, Missoni is the child of Austrian architects - is Italian. Hire a couple of chain-smoking Italian designers, give them unlimited Espresso and tell them they can use the focus group reports as toilet paper. Brand's design troubles will be solved in days.
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09-18-2024, 03:40 PM | #72 | |
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….and about that car you posted, you’re right! It’ll sell simply because it has a Roundel. Sometimes I wish I could have a heart-to-heart with the people making the decisions just to get a glimpse into their line of thinking. I know they aren’t idiots and A LOT of analysis goes into forecasting. |
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09-18-2024, 03:52 PM | #73 |
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Surely, we can all have an opinion without someone saying it is stupid. We can only relate to what is happening where we live.
If you want to talk about interest rates etc that's fine as USA is lower than AU. If you want to know about economics & pricing an M3 Comp X Drive in AU is over $200,000.00. |
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09-18-2024, 05:08 PM | #74 | |
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09-18-2024, 05:38 PM | #75 | |
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There is a thread full of people who hate it unfortunately. This is a customer base they missed.
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09-18-2024, 06:57 PM | #76 | |
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Actually, I would say a large majority of my M buyers have bought the G8X platform purely based off its look. People like the G8X look because it carries road presence and aggressiveness that other brands cant supply. People are getting bored of the soft lines of MB and dull interiors of Audi, it's why BMW is the highest selling Luxury brand. I've upgraded plenty of F-Chassis M drivers to G8X's, all of them happy. |
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09-18-2024, 10:17 PM | #77 |
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They will go down in history as the most damaging team. As long as "Damage" Dukec remains involved, everything is lost.
Rolls Royce is his next target... They have literally destroyed the brand. I bought my still-good-looking BMWs in 2021, but since then, I have also purchased two cars from a different brand after decades of only driving BMWs. |
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09-18-2024, 11:01 PM | #78 | |
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09-19-2024, 02:02 AM | #79 | |
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09-19-2024, 02:34 AM | #80 | |
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What you call modern designs is boneheaded ridiculous design to others and it doesn’t solely drive sales. Remove hofmeister kink, add boomerangs all on the inside (new X3), missing back row ambient lighting, plain Jane door trims in the G60, slap a tacky big 5 label on both sides, sparkly ///M-logos, the list is (fairly) long. In god we trust, everyone else brings Data and Correlation as proof. Write us a financial analysis paper please with your facts exactly how design is driving the sales numbers up. Or it’s just another pure lazy speculation.
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09-19-2024, 08:31 AM | #82 |
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They are overthinking it with all of these words.
THE CONSUMERS DON'T WANT UGLY BEAVER LOOKING/BUCKTOOTH/STERILE/EMOTIONLESS/CHEAP INTERIOR LOOKING VEHICLES. There I completed the research for you. Now go execute.
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09-19-2024, 08:41 AM | #83 | |
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But, when it comes to design, it's not about sitting and drawing something pretty on a desk. Some cars, need to be boring because their purpose is to disappear in your life - that's why more reliable cars are purposefully more boring design-wise because they're so reliable that they become an integral part of your life, so they shouldn't be memorable - when you think of your Lexus you should say to your self: "Oh yeah, my car has been so steady and reliable never even thought about it for a while". At least that's the purpose. Some cars, need to be ugly, so that they attract negative attention which is the strongest kind of attention, or people could love it just because it's ugly, because of the same reason everybody love the elephant man (This argument is actually copied from James May). Some cars, need to look 'wild' and 'bold' because they are confident: They know they already have an audience they know they're already better so now they want to attract different niches, and deliver more character, more differentiation. A bold look a different look emphasizes confidence and differentiation. (This is BMW, btw) Some cars need to be pretty because that's their main thing, and can't really compete on anything else: like most Italians.(Maserati, Fiat) Some cars, like most early electric cars can look very futuristic, because target market is not conservatives who're attached to old ways - they're progressives who want to be better for environment but also who want to feel like they're driving something from the future. Designers only deliver what needs to be delivered in their time. They ALL know how to design a car that would be very pretty, or mean, or futuristic, or bold. It's their expertise. They ALL know better than you, or the haters here. They went to school for this, they're at the PEAK of their career, and they're working for one of the most influential car companies in the world. So having Volvo designer working for BMW doesn't mean BMWs will look like Volvo, because BMW has a different market, different target demographics, different strategies. And there are only couple of objective ways to measure success in design: Impact (buzz) and sales. Which means: BMW's design team for the last 5 years or so, is the most successful ever, in BMW history. BMW has never been this comfortably ahead of its competitors in terms of sales and buzz, ever. Not in the E39 and E46 era, not in the E92 and E60 era, not in the F30 and F10 era, not ever.
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09-19-2024, 01:58 PM | #84 | |
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No, they are not more efficient. diesel is still the most efficient. And BMW, Mercedes, Siemens and Bosch worked on a very clean one but nobody cares. Anyway, many manufacturers are slowly realizing that electric is not the answer... Also, the lithium extractions sites are forever lost and destroyed, leaving a irreparable scar on the surface of the earth. While any oil extraction site can be reforested and given back to the nature if desired. And no, designers do not know. they try. Some are successful, some or not. Automobile history is full of fiasco stories in term of design, hence the designers do not own the crystal ball. Is just a presumption of knowing. BMW is still selling right now ONLY because of its engineering. The way they dressed the vehicles today is appalling. |
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09-19-2024, 02:07 PM | #85 | |
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Also, no, BMW is not selling only because of its engineering. Most buyers aren't even aware of its 'engineering', and once again, this is arrogant and egocentric; you don't like the design so nobody likes it, right? https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/el...-vehicle-myths https://climate.mit.edu/explainers/electric-vehicles https://www.carbonbrief.org/factchec...limate-change/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ons-over-time/
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09-19-2024, 02:35 PM | #86 | |
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I think that the ignorance lays in your side. However, I have no intent in educating you in the matter. No, I don't like the design is repugnant to me. But if you like it, good for you. Case closed. |
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09-19-2024, 03:18 PM | #87 | |
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You may realize sometime at a later point in time that all those links that you copy pasted here for our “education”, are published by places that get funded by the lobbyists who are promoting EVs for the sole sale of profit in a capitalistic economy. I have co-written research grants and I know about these mechanics, you have PhD students to fund and a lab to run. Who will give you money, the industry, so you ride the wave. It’s an ecosystem of 5 disparate publication sources that co-exist and support each others claim to make it believable and way more compelling. That’s our world today. Could you also educate us please (be respectful okay?), about battery waste, and disposal for the environment? And let’s not talk about design, it’s a dead horse that the clairvoyant automotive designers cannot revive with the most potent stroke of their brush.
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09-20-2024, 12:30 AM | #88 | |
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