[gadgetfreaky]

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Pretty surprised to see the i8 does decent against the p85D

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/07/rac...el-s-p85d.html

[Epirali]

Thank you very interesting indeed. Now if only we could get the two cars on a windy track...

[JasH]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Thank you very interesting indeed. Now if only we could get the two cars on a windy track...

I've driven the P85D, and on a road with turns, it would be an easy win for the i8. Not even a particularly twisty one in fact.

I will put up my review after I find it. The P85D is a monster off the traffic lights though. NOTHING will touch it.

[JasH]

I had a one hour test drive of the Tesla Model S, P85D version recently at the Canary Wharf Motor Expo.

The P85D is the most powerful Tesla, and has an additional motor on the front axle, as well as the rear motor the other Model S cars have. It is therefore 4WD.

The car was left hand drive and appeared fully loaded with options.

Looking at the car, it is attractive and very wide and long. Quality of body and paint work is not premium however, and is below the standard on modern Skodas.

The boot is huge, and in fact big enough to install 2 small rear facing seats in it. The front storage compartment is in fact around the same size as an i3's boot! This car is big.

Legroom is also huge, front and rear. In fact, with the driver's seat fully back, I could only just fully depress the accelerator pedal. However, for a 5 seater big family car, it has a major, and fatal, flaw. Rear headroom is lacking, to the point where my head was hitting the roof - albeit it is better than in the rear of the i8. However, the i8 is a 2+2, not a full 5 (7) seater family car.

The problem is that the Tesla has a badly designed sloping roofline. A terrible idea in a large family car, and truly a case of form over function. Combined with the rear seat being high due to the batteries underneath, it results in inadequate rear headroom.

Sitting in the front, the car is comfortable, spacious and airy. The large tablet style touch screen in the centre looks odd and out of place. Flashy yes, but it makes the car seems gimmicky. The instrument display is fine though.

The interior trim is cheap and flimsy, and not befitting a car in this price range. Nowhere near the quality of even the i3, never mind the i8.

This car had a lot of options, and I liked the height adjustable suspension feature a lot. I wish my i8 had this.

From discussion with Tesla, I would estimate that the real world range of the large battery version of the car, is under 200 miles when driven under similar conditions as my i3 REx test, which gave 79 miles range (i3 BEV estimated range 85 miles). A driver could reasonably extend each of these ranges by 20% if deliberately driving in a frugal manner and in eco mode.

Moving off, the Tesla is smooth, quiet and powerful. It immediately feels very nice indeed to drive. And just as calming and relaxing as the i3 and i8 (in e-drive).

The steering is extremely light, which suits the car. Putting the steering in Sport mode achieves nothing more than making it a little too heavy, as it still offers no true feedback whatsoever - in common with most other modern cars.

The P85D has a well publicised INSANE mode and I left the car in this mode the entire time. This affects the power delivery and basically gives you maximum power (and minimum range).

Moving off is astonishing At the traffic light Grand Prix, if you accelerate fully, it is quicker than any other car I have driven, unless you use launch control in a combustion car with 4WD.

I had so much fun moving off from the lights. Even motorbikes could barely get rolling by the time the Tesla was 3-4 car lengths ahead. It feels more powerful moving from stationary than when accelerating from a rolling start in fact, because of the instant maximum torque afforded by electric motors.

The manner of acceleration from standstill is similar to the i3 and i8, but more pronounced at the point of moving off, because it is all electric (unlike i8), very powerful, and you get 100% of the torque immediately. Simply fantastic! And I could not get enough of trying its acceleration. It also feels very fast because it moves off so silently, unlike the i8 in Sports mode.

Unlike the P85, the P85D did not have enough torque to spin its wheels on a straight dry road whilst moving. No doubt this was due to its 4WD system.

The acceleration is the single biggest selling point of this car, for me.

I should mention though that I had a long drive in my S1 Exige SC CC the next day, and truthfully, the Exige is far more "insane" that the P85D in insane mode.

The big downside of the Tesla though is that it is over 2 tonnes, and it feels heavy too. Furthermore, it can only run at maximum power for 15 seconds before it has to reduce power! This was confirmed by Tesla to me, and is due to massive heat being generated in the batteries when under maximum power. Its glycol cooling system cannot cope with so much heat at once. In real world driving, this is unlikely to be an issue however.

Grip levels are reasonable, and the car is well balanced when turning. However, under very hard acceleration it transfers so much of its massive weight to the rear that steering response is significantly reduced, and it feels less willing to turn. The P85D was better than the P85 in this respect though, and was also assisted by the fact I drove it mostly at minimum ride height.

It corners with little roll, thanks to its low centre of gravity. This is a heavy car though, and needs to be driven as such. It is not a car to throw around twisty roads. However, its massive power and acceleration do make you wish it were more nimble in its handling.

I did manage to cause it to break traction on a tight fast turn, and its behaviour was to slide the rear wheels a little before quickly stabilising through the electronics. It is very easy to drive with an ability to provoke slight oversteer if you try.

Overall, it is an impressive car that is very nice and enjoyable to drive. In P85D guise, it is also extremely quick, to the point where I cannot think of any car that will beat it off the lights up to around 40mph (not counting launch control activated runs in combustion cars). The fatal flaw in the car however is the rear headroom, which is unacceptable in a family 5/7 seater car.

[Epirali]

Thanks for detailed review. I had all the same impression but want to add one thing that really bothered me in the car I test drove: in insane mode using the full power I could feel and see the front of the car lift. It was easy to see the hood line rise and it did not give me a great sense of confidence.

I appreciate the power of the car, but it is truly insane to put it in that chassis. And honestly after 3 minutes of doing that it just gets old. Yes it did have more push than the Roadster, but in every other way it was kind of pointless unless, as you said, you want to drag race in a straight line.

[JasH]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Thanks for detailed review. I had all the same impression but want to add one thing that really bothered me in the car I test drove: in insane mode using the full power I could feel and see the front of the car lift. It was easy to see the hood line rise and it did not give me a great sense of confidence.

You are very welcome Thank you for reading it

You are absolutely spot on about the front end lift, and I did have a paragraph in my review about it, as follows:

"Grip levels are reasonable, and the car is well balanced when turning. However, under very hard acceleration it transfers so much of its massive weight to the rear that steering response is significantly reduced, and it feels less willing to turn. The P85D was better than the P85 in this respect though, and was also assisted by the fact I drove it mostly at minimum ride height."

I could have perhaps have expressed it more clearly though, than just saying weight transfer to the rear. I was indeed referring to the rear "squatting down" and the front lifting, as a result of the weight transfer. But the effect was reduced by setting the ride height at its lowest.

Good spot

[kip1]

Tacho videos are useless for the most part, but it is quite obvious that the p85d is faster and then dramatically runs out of boost. The p85d is getting a power upgrade, something like 60 bhp. For me it was finally that for the same money, the i8 is just way cooler. P85d was the car that was my 2nd choice.

[kip1]

I have to add that they made a big effort to make the tesla feel like a normal car so much that it feels like a very normal car, the i8 just feels like something special.

[JasH]

All very true Kip. Although to be honest, it really makes no sense to compare the i8 to a Tesla (as others do). They are completely different cars in so many ways.

The Tesla is a practical 5/7 seater comfortable family saloon car that is pure electric and very quick to accelerate.

The i8 is a hybrid, extremely flexible 2+2 slow supercar with fantasy futuristic styling.

[YWGT3]

Tesla has been a trail blazer for the electric car industry and has led other manufactures to either follow or to take serious notice.

As JasH and Epirali discerningly observed, the interior appointment and design of their vehicles fall significantly short for what they're priced at. While I haven't test driven any of Tesla's sedans, I did have a go at it with their then newly introduced roadster. The roadster's interior felt spartan but perhaps purposeful by design. While it was quick off the line, the roadster exhibited a surprising amount of body sway despite not being pushed to the limit (a surprising disappointment for a short wheel based chassis). But the disconcerting experience came when I decided to press the entertainment button only to see the entire dash begin to flex under the slight pressure from an index finger. The thought, warranted or not, began to occur as to whether Tesla's weight saving measures had come at the expense of nonstructural parts such as the dashboard's rigidity. Unfortunately, the flimsy dashboard left me with an indelible and disappointed impression of my Tesla experience.

That being said, I look forward to the day when Tesla takes notice to improve on the overall design and upgrade of its vehicle interior.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by yw

Tesla has been a trail blazer for the electric car industry and has led other manufactures to either follow or to take serious notice.

As JasH and Epirali discerningly observed, the interior appointment and design of their vehicles fall significantly short for what they're priced at. While I haven't test driven any of Tesla's sedans, I did have a go at it with their then newly introduced roadster. The roadster's interior felt spartan but perhaps purposeful by design. While it was quick off the line, the roadster exhibited a surprising amount of body sway despite not being pushed to the limit (a surprising disappointment for a short wheel based chassis). But the disconcerting experience came when I decided to press the entertainment button only to see the entire dash begin to flex under the slight pressure from an index finger. The thought, warranted or not, began to occur as to whether Tesla's weight saving measures had come at the expense of nonstructural parts such as the dashboard's rigidity. Unfortunately, the flimsy dashboard left me with an indelible and disappointed impression of my Tesla experience.

That being said, I look forward to the day when Tesla takes notice to improve on the overall design and upgrade of its vehicle interior.

Do you mean the original Roadster? Because it really is just a Lotus Elise with electric motor and battery instead of its drive train and a softer suspension. But compared to the Elise it is "luxurious" in that the seats are not hard plastic and there is CARPETS!

I think the original Roadster is a success, it handles amazingly well (thank you Lotus) and has a fast and quiet drivetrain (thank you Tesla). That is until it overheats in about 15 minutes....

I am not at all interested in the next Gen if its on their current chassis. That would probably just end up more like a 2 seat cruiser that just goes fast. I don't think there is ANY chance Tesla can build any chassis like Lotus could/can.

[JasH]

Yes, he does mean the original Roadster. I know because I drove one too when they first came out, and was very disappointed with it.

Heavy and cumbersome, but to be fair I was comparing it to the "donor vehicle" - the Lotus Elise. Basically Tesla took a lightweight Elise and made it heavy, as well as throwing off the weight distribution.

Drive one back to back with the Elise, and the failure is evident. But to be fair, it was a version 1 effort from Tesla.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by JasH

Yes, he does mean the original Roadster. I know because I drove one too when they first came out, and was very disappointed with it.

Heavy and cumbersome, but to be fair I was comparing it to the "donor vehicle" - the Lotus Elise. Basically Tesla took a lightweight Elise and made it heavy, as well as throwing off the weight distribution.

Drive one back to back with the Elise, and the failure is evident. But to be fair, it was a version 1 effort from Tesla.

I believe it, but did you listen to the noise? I mean the total lack of noise? Like the utter and beautiful quiet?

[JasH]

Originally Posted by Epirali

I believe it, but did you listen to the noise? I mean the total lack of noise? Like the utter and beautiful quiet?

Are you daring to suggest my Lotus is too noisy?

It is a place of serene and peaceful calm I will have you know...

......or perhaps not

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by JasH

Are you daring to suggest my Lotus is too noisy?

It is a place of serene and peaceful calm I will have you know...

......or perhaps not

No no, I suggest NO SUCH THING. Or maybe it is only noisy for the first week. Then you go deaf, and it is quite serene....

Seriously its the only thing that has kept me from an Exige.

[YWGT3]

Originally Posted by Epirali

Do you mean the original Roadster? Because it really is just a Lotus Elise with electric motor and battery instead of its drive train and a softer suspension.

Yes, JasH's answer to your above query is correct. I believe it was one of the initial units off the production line, sporting the grippy and soft compound Yokahama Advan sport tires. In the particular roadster I was testing, the suspension felt a little spongy as well. Perhaps the roadsters were further tuned and/or modified in time for your test drive and therefore explains the contrast in driving experience.

[YWGT3]

Originally Posted by JasH

Are you daring to suggest my Lotus is too noisy?

It is a place of serene and peaceful calm I will have you know...

......or perhaps not

Nice racing lines on the track. Unfortunately, my track prowess is embarrassingly similar to the guy in the Porsche.

[Epirali]

Originally Posted by yw

Yes, JasH's answer to your above query is correct. I believe it was one of the initial units off the production line, sporting the grippy and soft compound Yokahama Advan sport tires. In the particular roadster I was testing, the suspension felt a little spongy as well. Perhaps the roadsters were further tuned and/or modified in time for your test drive and therefore explains the contrast in driving experience.

I have a 2.0, and only can speak to that. I know there were significant mods to thermal behaviour, suspension (in fact you could get an optional stiffer/settable suspension), and body panels. It is heavier than an Elise but it grips pretty well, just until you start feeling it go.

[kip1]

[kip1]

http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-...mode-vs-bmw-i8

[MKSixer]

^^^^^

Ok. I appreciate the effort of the post but there are so many things wrong with this. In the first race it seems that the i8 didn't know it was beginning. I understand that the Tesla launches hard but the difference in 0-60 times between these cars doesn't speak to that type of drubbing.

I'd like to see the two race with BOTH using launch control at a real track...not a street venue. Until I see this, the rest is just noise.

Pls keep in mind that the P85D is a fine piece of engineering and I considered one as a sedan but I don't consider it to be competition for the i8. Additionally as a "racing machine" I kind of view it as the old Buick Grand National GNX...it's great up to 130 or so. In order to NEVER lose to one I simply won't race his/her race.

I discourage people from racing my M6 with the following phrase: Sure I'll race you... rolling start, 100mph to 200mph, winner gets $5000. It's amazing how much bravado is deflated with those few words.

Cheers-MK

[JasH]

Originally Posted by Epirali

No no, I suggest NO SUCH THING. Or maybe it is only noisy for the first week. Then you go deaf, and it is quite serene....

Seriously its the only thing that has kept me from an Exige.

That is so true!

Honestly, when doing any road journey exceeding 30 minutes, I insert foam ear plugs. The car is extremely loud inside, as the engine in an Exige is in the same compartment. It is also hot.

Mine is MUCH worse than a normal one due to the engine mods, and also the fact that all the sound insulation has been removed to reduce weight.