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      04-09-2020, 06:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I'm honestly not sure. I know that my son and a lot of his grade (high school seniors) mostly have gotten SUV's for first cars. They are growing up with them, but I feel the next couple of generations will be less enthusiastic about cars in general. I would say a lot of younger people also find an appeal for Tesla and electric cars, it is the "it car" that people aspire to have and has a lot of badge appeal to younger generations. Sadly this makes me see a future of electric SUV's as the norm.
I agree. I'm in my late 20s and we were the first ones to experience the early days of the internet, Walkmans with CDs, then iPods, iPhones, Macs, Facebook, Instagram, etc. Tech has taken over every aspect of our lives and people are really passionate about it. Tesla is by far the most tech-oriented automaker so that's what people aspire to. If not that then definitely some caliber of SUV (RR, G wagen, Jeeps).

I'm that oddball millennial who wakes up at 7 am on saturdays to hang around with people my dad's age to and stare at little sports cars.
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      04-09-2020, 06:39 PM   #24
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There is something wrong with the side profile of the G20, and that photo kind of emphasizes it IMO.
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      04-09-2020, 06:43 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
Challenging the classic three-box architecture with a two-and-a-half-box sounds a lot like the approach taken by some of the Gran Coupés.

One way to interpret this is that BMW will seek creative approaches to take desirable elements of crossover design and infuse them into future sedans.
We take it to mean that we should expect silhouettes such as the F44 2 Series Gran Coupe to be a reference point for future BMW sedans in terms of design and aesthetic form.
Yeah please don't do that to all your sedans, you will have EVERYONE leaving BMW
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      04-09-2020, 10:16 PM   #26
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We are experiencing the most mediocre and uninspired design that BMW ever had! The design not only lacks elegance, but is goofy!!

BMW is very stupid to not realize that the new direction is taking is changing the perception of the brand and the customer niche; many of the customers are educated and not everyone wants obnoxious and condescending "look at me" horrible grills with kitschy lights!
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      04-09-2020, 10:25 PM   #27
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      04-09-2020, 10:29 PM   #28
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Maybe BMW understands that cultures go through fads, the crossover lovers might find there way back to a sedan after they're done after a baby booming era.
BMW brand is synonymous with sports saloons, imagine if Porsche stopped making 911s because Macan sales are booming? Never.. Just increase the price on the niche market vehicles (in BMW terms, M or M performance) while making enough mainstream appeal to get the Karen's of the world on the dealership lot.
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      04-09-2020, 11:33 PM   #29
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I don't think a future 3 Series will resemble the 2 GC. The 2's FWD architecture is obvious in the design, which is why it looks so awkward in the front.

There are only 2 ways to gussy up a sedan, which is the Gran Coupe concept with a hatch, or heaven forbid, a wagon.

BMW has made unique versions of cars for specific markets, like the long wheelbase 3 Series for China, so I assume they will continue to do that.

Finally, Ford stopped sedan production, but their sedans were never iconic like the 3 is. And you can argue that a car like the Focus or Fiesta should have continued their lives in the US.

Remember folks, this is all leading up to BMW ditching the Ultimate Driving Machine slogan. Self driving cars, by definition, cannot be the ultimate driving machine.
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      04-10-2020, 12:20 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Not once have I seen "sporty design" in the article.
What happened to the sporty sedan philosophy on which BMW built itself?

BMW is in an identity crisis.
Casual and elegant is what we're going with now - RIP "sporty" BMW.
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      04-10-2020, 01:09 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Sorry to go on about a design rant here, but... they literally said sedan buyers want "elegant" design. I don't think BMW's current designers understand what elegance means.
Loll that's simply corporate speak for "our cars are now designed for the Chinese first."
And what do they give us in return?

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      04-10-2020, 03:13 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Loll that's simply corporate speak for "our cars are now designed for the Chinese first."
The American and European market combined sell more than twice the number of BMWs compared to the Chinese market. Does it make sense to style solely for 25% of their market? Also when you take into consideration that the Chinese prefer larger cars, sales of cars like the M3 and 4 series are proportionally even higher in Western countries.

Like it or not, the large grilles are a global trend. Enthusiasts have always complained about new design trends. I'll admit I don't like the trend either, but we will all get used to it. Using the "others" as a scapegoat for everything that offends you is just being lazy.
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      04-10-2020, 03:18 AM   #33
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Good read thanks OP.

I've had several CS over the years and feel I'm finally over them. They are fantastic for growing families.

I'm now heading back the other and only looking at coupes and sedans.

The X models have really been a runaway success for BMW. I wonder how much/any of that was partly from the Land Rover purchase. They definitely seemed to own the sporty SAV/SUV segment for some time before competition caught up.

I'm surprised that the 2 series Gran Coupe model was deemed necessary really.

In my selfish mind I'd like to see:-

1 series hatch (currently own M135i)
2 series RWD coupe
3 series sedan
4 series coupe
5 series sedan
8 series coupe + Gran coupe
Mnext Halo

X1/3/5/7

Don't see much news for the coupe style SUVs (however obviously I'd be poor at business these sell well and my wife has an X2!!!).

I'd also personally drop the 7, doesn't ever seem a big seller or ever close to toppling the S class in luxury. Maybe an uber luxurious 5 model in L guise could fill this.

As for mini brand, it's a worry, sales look to have been dreadful in NA last periods. Is it just too small and seems to offer poor value in some markets. Seems popular as ever in the IK but that might not be enough. Decision on full EV next platform or not seems to be holding the revised model back.

Well thanks for reading. As ever, it's a good job I'm not on the board of BMW AG I'd be specialising in getting Leipzig to offer individual colour for my Fire Orange M2C.
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      04-10-2020, 03:31 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Good read thanks OP.

I'd be specialising in getting Leipzig to offer individual colour for my Fire Orange M2C.
You missed an M3 touring off the list.

And another cool colour - speed yellow
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      04-10-2020, 07:51 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
US consumers are relatively wealthy, and just as US consumers generally want larger homes when they can afford them, they like larger vehicles too. Then there's that "heavier vehicle wins in an accident" theory too.
Americans are themselves larger. And heavier. They don't fold all that well, so they want a triple-X-size vehicle they can basically walk into, i.e an SUV or SUV-like chimera. If BMW owned Men's Wearhouse, the "big & tall" section would occupy 80% of the floor space.

Hence, many of BMW's recent designs seem morbidly obese to me.
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      04-10-2020, 08:03 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted99 View Post
I like the increased ground clearance of the SUV form factor, but I don't like the bouncy ride that seems to come with the increased load capacity. Having gone the X5 route, I'm back to the 5 sedan for just this reason. Is the bouncy ride a design/marketing choice or is it a necessary component of the extra ground clearance? I'm not carrying loads of bricks, so I really don't care about any more load carrying capacity than I have in my 530e.
The ride isn’t so bouncy in the X3 for example. In the X5, the higher payload/towing capacity is culprit, and as I understand you need air suspension to get comfort back in that category of vehicle.

My X3 M3.5i with EDC has the broadest suspension adjustment range of any BMW I’ve ever driven. It is supremely cosseting in Comfort, and rides like an old style E46 non-sport in Sport mode. Very well chosen.
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      04-10-2020, 08:38 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Sorry to go on about a design rant here, but... they literally said sedan buyers want "elegant" design. I don't think BMW's current designers understand what elegance means.
Right. I like the M5 in the current guise, but the direction they are going with the G80 M3 made me go the SUV route instead.
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      04-10-2020, 09:09 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Sorry to go on about a design rant here, but... they literally said sedan buyers want "elegant" design. I don't think BMW's current designers understand what elegance means.
this lit up like a burning ember off the page

" We take it to mean that we should expect silhouettes such as the F44 2 Series Gran Coupe to be a reference point for future BMW sedans in terms of design and aesthetic form..."

..to each their own, the 2GC design would surprise me to be used as the gold standard for sedans
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      04-10-2020, 09:30 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by New2Roundel View Post
What I'd love to see happen is BMW offer coupes/sedans as M-only versions and leave the standard/luxury trims for the SUVs. The exception here would be the 7 series, which should, IMO, maintain it's primary luxury role vs only being available on M trim.
You really must be new the to rondel. Get rid of the non-M 3 series? No way. Cars iconic. (And I'm a multiple M owner)
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      04-10-2020, 11:11 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megabrode View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
US consumers are relatively wealthy, and just as US consumers generally want larger homes when they can afford them, they like larger vehicles too. Then there's that "heavier vehicle wins in an accident" theory too.
Americans are themselves larger. And heavier. They don't fold all that well, so they want a triple-X-size vehicle they can basically walk into, i.e an SUV or SUV-like chimera. If BMW owned Men's Wearhouse, the "big & tall" section would occupy 80% of the floor space.

Hence, many of BMW's recent designs seem morbidly obese to me.
Jeez man, don't hold back!!
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      04-10-2020, 12:09 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by pseto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
I don't understand the US manufacturers. Yes...the percentage of sedans vs. SUVs has been and is dropping. But there are still substantial numbers of sedans sold every year and GM, Ford and Chrysler are leaving that space to Toyota, Nissan, Subaru and Honda. Once a customer moves to another manufacturer, if that experience is positive, the customer may become one for life. The US Big three are being very shortsighted.
On the other hand, I don't understand the US consumer. Essentially made the SUV the go-to vehicle and BMW and other manufacturers all chased the money. Made car enthusiasts pretty pissed
We enthusiasts are of the small minority. We cant compete with all the families and kids out there. Me myself have an suv for my family but to work i drive my 08 135i
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      04-10-2020, 01:03 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Actually, yes. I don't know if your comment was meant as a joke, but the reality is, they will be interested in no vehicle and use ride-sharing services or they will be interested in autonomous vehicles. Those autonomous vehicles will look a lot like the living room on wheel concepts we have seen. Perhaps we are 10 years out from that? Maybe 5?
No, I was serious. And the current C-19 economic effects may accelerate this. Gen Z is going to be hammered for many years to come. Research says that low starting salaries propagate for many years afterwards. My two cars are sitting, but costing me money. it's a cost that Gen Z may be unwilling (or unable) to pay. Ride sharing when you need it is a lot cheaper than car ownership, particularly when you don't have a job to commute to or are teleworking. Were there people that treasured their horse-drawn Phaetons after the Model T proliferated? We car buffs could be an endangered species in 20 years.
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      04-10-2020, 01:48 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted99 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Actually, yes. I don't know if your comment was meant as a joke, but the reality is, they will be interested in no vehicle and use ride-sharing services or they will be interested in autonomous vehicles. Those autonomous vehicles will look a lot like the living room on wheel concepts we have seen. Perhaps we are 10 years out from that? Maybe 5?
No, I was serious. And the current C-19 economic effects may accelerate this. Gen Z is going to be hammered for many years to come. Research says that low starting salaries propagate for many years afterwards. My two cars are sitting, but costing me money. it's a cost that Gen Z may be unwilling (or unable) to pay. Ride sharing when you need it is a lot cheaper than car ownership, particularly when you don't have a job to commute to or are teleworking. Were there people that treasured their horse-drawn Phaetons after the Model T proliferated? We car buffs could be an endangered species in 20 years.
Maybe, but my two teenage boys "get" the ICE and mods too and know what they want their own cars to do and how they want to improve them. It makes me proud as a dad. 😀
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      04-10-2020, 03:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by New2Roundel View Post
What I'd love to see happen is BMW offer coupes/sedans as M-only versions and leave the standard/luxury trims for the SUVs. The exception here would be the 7 series, which should, IMO, maintain it's primary luxury role vs only being available on M trim.
The M3 is only as affordable as it is because it is a modified 3 series. Your idea would just not be economically viable.
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