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      04-10-2020, 08:54 AM   #4819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
To that point, how many deaths would be deemed acceptable? Current lockdown estimates is around 60,000 deaths in US. The ďdo nothingĒ estimate was roughly 1 million plus (possibly more, depending on source). So, where in the spectrum would be an acceptable number to you, and what reasonable precautions would you suggest the government have done instead to achieve that number?

Second question, would you feel differently if you (or a loved one) were dying from C-19?
i think that answer is pretty obvious. the number of deaths doesnt mean anything to him as long as it doesnt directly affect him and he gets to keep making money.
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      04-10-2020, 08:58 AM   #4820
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Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Oh yea..my daughter is a Nurse Practitioner and her husband is Professor of Nutrition in a medical school. They advised me take 50mg zinc and 3 oz tonic water/day.
Nothing wrong with the zinc, but the tonic water isn't giving you much probably. There is very little quinine in tonic water these days if that's what you're after. I think I saw a calculation that you needed to drink around 6L of tonic per day to get a significant dose compared to the concentrations of chloroquine used.
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      04-10-2020, 09:01 AM   #4821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
Evidently most of the cases coming to NYC were from Europe. But Trump only focused on closing the flights coming from China.

Anyone care to comment?
Yes..no one else including Pelosi and Schumer advocated closing to Europe (or China).
But thank God he closed China early. Of course he should have. We are all a day late and a dollar short. If we weren't we would have a garage full of BMW's. Of course I would have a few Subarus in the mix.
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      04-10-2020, 09:04 AM   #4822
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      04-10-2020, 09:05 AM   #4823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
One of the infectious disease experts, I don't remember which one, said something along the lines of "We will know for sure that our contagion reduction strategies have worked when people start complaining about us having over-reacted."
The US is blessed to have Dr. Anthony Fauci at the helm of the NIH since decades. He served under all US presidents since Reagan for all the right reasons. When you browse the interwebs you'll notice that he's respected worldwide for his competence, as well as for his courage to stand his ground during the many power struggles he encounters at the White House. A tough job when, regarding the balance of interests, quite some folks (some without medical training) seem to care more for (short term) economic motives than for healthcare motives (and the damage control effects of choices, on the economy in the long term).



March 10, 2020:
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      04-10-2020, 09:06 AM   #4824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
Evidently most of the cases coming to NYC were from Europe. But Trump only focused on closing the flights coming from China.

Anyone care to comment?
Sure, I'll comment.
And?
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      04-10-2020, 09:11 AM   #4825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
Evidently most of the cases coming to NYC were from Europe. But Trump only focused on closing the flights coming from China.

Anyone care to comment?
Yes, we did take the correct action with regard to China but much too late with Europe and the UK (what was with that weird dithering on the UK).

However, as poor of a job as I think Trump has done, I wonít argue that anyone else was calling for a European travel ban at the right time either.

The real failure here is the entire government response to testing. Had we been able to test, isolate, and contact trace starting with all travelers arriving from Europe, we wouldnít have an issue of this magnitude in NYC.
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      04-10-2020, 09:18 AM   #4826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Yes, we did take the correct action with regard to China but much too late with Europe and the UK (what was with that weird dithering on the UK).

However, as poor of a job as I think Trump has done, I wonít argue that anyone else was calling for a European travel ban at the right time either.

The real failure here is the entire government response to testing. Had we been able to test, isolate, and contact trace starting with all travelers arriving from Europe, we wouldnít have an issue of this magnitude in NYC.
I agree with you on the testing, but I am not sure we would have ever had enough tests in time to get it done.

But why only NYC? LA is another huge travel hub, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, these places see thousands of travelers from all around the world daily. They didn't do anything better than NY did.
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      04-10-2020, 09:21 AM   #4827
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Gee wiz, if the story is true and thatís questionable, maybe itís because the genesis of the bug was where? China! The country was already spreading the disease at that time and Europe contamination wasnít even a blip on the radar. Holy crap the left will say or do anything to smear the President and they always end up looking pathetic.
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      04-10-2020, 09:23 AM   #4828
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Fucking lunatics.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...er/5125426002/
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      04-10-2020, 09:39 AM   #4829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Gee wiz, if the story is true and thatís questionable, maybe itís because the genesis of the bug was where? China! The country was already spreading the disease at that time and Europe contamination wasnít even a blip on the radar. Holy crap the left will say or do anything to smear the President and they always end up looking pathetic.
Itís just something that was obvious - if the entire world didnít cut off China then cases would enter through the back door so to speak. It was just a matter of time.
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      04-10-2020, 09:41 AM   #4830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
I agree with you on the testing, but I am not sure we would have ever had enough tests in time to get it done.

But why only NYC? LA is another huge travel hub, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, these places see thousands of travelers from all around the world daily. They didn't do anything better than NY did.
Population density, public transportation, bad luck. Late shutdown of public schools. I think people are wondering why LA and the west coast werenít hit so hard. Weíll probably find out at some point. Iím very reluctant to go down the second strain path given that there are small numbers of divergences and nothing indicates they would be of clinical significance - yet.

Last edited by chris719; 04-10-2020 at 09:47 AM..
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      04-10-2020, 09:55 AM   #4831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Itís just something that was obvious - if the entire world didnít cut off China then cases would enter through the back door so to speak. It was just a matter of time.
Yes but many thousands/day came from china and specifically the Wuhan area. This gave us lots of time. And yes the testing thing was a fiasco but hardly Trump's fault. Trump cut mega red tapes getting it all reset.

And for the record..if we don't have a solid "cure" in the next few months or a vaccine by Sept we are truly fucked.

Trump will hopefully allow "a" vaccine to go to the general public by October. Count on it.
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      04-10-2020, 10:07 AM   #4832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Yes but many thousands/day came from china and specifically the Wuhan area. This gave us lots of time. And yes the testing thing was a fiasco but hardly Trump's fault. Trump cut mega red tapes getting it all reset.

And for the record..if we don't have a solid "cure" in the next few months or a vaccine by Sept we are truly fucked.

Trump will hopefully allow "a" vaccine to go to the general public by October. Count on it.

I doubt we have a good treatment anytime soon other than Remdesivir for anyone hospitalized ASAP depending on the moderate case trial outcome. It’s being set up to fail though since it needs to be taken early but is infusion only.

It will be a while before we see Regeneron’s mabs or the oral antiviral from Emory / Ridgeback makes it through trials. Favipiravir in Boston is worth watching but probably isn’t magic either.

The vaccine needs to be safe and effective. There is real risk to kill people with an untested vaccine, so I doubt Trump will have anything to do with this. It will be available the moment it’s deemed safe and effective and not a moment before. There’s a huge difference between adding another indication for an already approved drug and a brand new vaccine or therapeutic.
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      04-10-2020, 10:26 AM   #4833
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I doubt we have a good treatment anytime soon other than Remdesivir for anyone hospitalized ASAP depending on the moderate case trial outcome. Itís being set up to fail though since it needs to be taken early but is infusion only.

It will be a while before we see Regeneronís mabs or the oral antiviral from Emory / Ridgeback makes it through trials. Favipiravir in Boston is worth watching but probably isnít magic either.

The vaccine needs to be safe and effective. There is real risk to kill people with an untested vaccine, so I doubt Trump will have anything to do with this. It will be available the moment itís deemed safe and effective and not a moment before.
Well if you are correct its easy to see that this country will be done. We are not a third world country who just allowed people to die. If anyone thinks that hundreds of thousands did not die in Whuhan they are delusional.

And again if you are correct. There will be no choice except open up for business and let nature take its course. Again..we are not a third world country like China...that just allows people to die. Although in the end we may have to.

This is a case where there are only a set number of options. None of them good.:

1. Take the risk of a vaccine. By then the Safety will be fine. That's why they call it "Safety Trials" ..its just efficacy that will be in question.

2. Let nature take its course.

3. Stay sheltered..country all but collapses into a third world country.

4. Develop a "Cure"-I believe this is the best candidate and certainly possible. Especially the Plasma thing. Well Plasma is a cure but that takes time to manage

5. A blending of the above.

I have a Cousin who is brilliant. We went to the same college. He went on to Graduate from the University of Pennsylvania. He has lived in Cali for his whole life. His field for these almost 50 years has been Pharmacology. I have an email in to him. When he gets back to me. I will post what I feel I can. Like I said he is brilliant and a leader in his field. There is no question in MY mind that. His information will be beyond anyone on this board has access to.

But again Chris.."What is your Solution or maybe your prediction-there may be no solution" I have to go back to my engineering career. In engineering there is always a "Solution", but it may not be a "viable" solution.
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      04-10-2020, 10:32 AM   #4834
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      04-10-2020, 10:41 AM   #4835
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      04-10-2020, 10:42 AM   #4836
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Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
1. Take the risk of a vaccine. By then the Safety will be fine. That's why they call it "Safety Trials" ..its just efficacy that will be in question.
It’s not that simple. Google antibody dependent enhancement. You could cause a worse catastrophe if you inoculate the entire country with a bad vaccine. There’s a reason everyone says it’s going to be around a year and that’s the fastest we’ve ever done this already.

The leading candidate is a messenger RNA based vaccine and I’m not sure that’s ever been scaled for manufacturing before in volumes like this either.

Last edited by chris719; 04-10-2020 at 10:52 AM..
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      04-10-2020, 10:43 AM   #4837
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?
Can you please take your huge conspiracy theory memes to the meme thread where they belong? We don’t need massive stretched jpegs with 5 lines of text. Stop trolling. If you have something to actually discuss instead of troll, then type it.
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      04-10-2020, 10:46 AM   #4838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
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Can you please take your huge conspiracy theory memes to the meme thread where they belong? We don’t need massive stretched jpegs with 5 lines of text. Stop trolling.
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      04-10-2020, 10:56 AM   #4839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Yes, we did take the correct action with regard to China but much too late with Europe and the UK (what was with that weird dithering on the UK).

However, as poor of a job as I think Trump has done, I wonít argue that anyone else was calling for a European travel ban at the right time either.

The real failure here is the entire government response to testing. Had we been able to test, isolate, and contact trace starting with all travelers arriving from Europe, we wouldnít have an issue of this magnitude in NYC.
Let's not get carried away with credit for the so-called "travel ban" from China. It wasn't ever a ban. It was a ban on foreign nationals who had been in China in the past 14 days and carried 11 categories of exemptions. According to the New York Times, at least 40,000 entered the US from China after the ban.

The "ban" was January 31. The first confirmed US case of COVD-19 was two weeks earlier.

Irrespective of whether you think the WH has done a good, mediocre, or bad job on managing the pandemic, the China travel ban is irrelevant. Nothing more than a red herring from Tump acolytes and sycophants to distract from a valid debate about the handling of the pandemic by the WH.
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      04-10-2020, 11:09 AM   #4840
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"You could use 10 million tests in New York tomorrow."

Yeah, Cuomo has this right but there is still the issue of ensuring that public health has the bodies and policies to follow up. Anyway, a refreshing change from the twaddle from the White House yesterday and the irresponsible silence from Birx and Fauci.
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