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      02-12-2020, 04:42 PM   #1453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast View Post
I'm talking st v stock.

No sunroof option for Supra? I'd be out too!

It should have been targa
I hope the Supra is a better car, it is 5k more.

But for 3500 I can put an LSD and Tune on the M240i, have a back seat, sunroof, manual, and have a better car.

If I wanted a pure track car I'd just buy a M2C.
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      02-12-2020, 05:00 PM   #1454
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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Well yes a track may be the "ultimate gauge", but the majority of owners will likely never or rarely take their cars to the track and will end up daily driving them, so I meant handling as to how it is on backroads, and general road driving. Handling is a more general term, the 1 and 2-series (non-M's) are road cars first, track second.
That's GARBAGE. Only people who have zero clue as to what "handling" means would say that.

A car that handles well on the street should handle the track well, and vice versa. A car that can't "handle" track duties will drive like sh*t on the street, period. There's no magical car that handles great on the street, but can't handle a turn at speed on track.

This is the most asinine thing I've ever heard on here. Different standards for street and track handling? People who don't take their car on the track therefore HANDLING doesn't matter to them because it's only used for the streets?

Might as well all buy and drive Priuses.
You completely misinterpreted everything I said.

Nowhere did I compare street vs track driving, or say that a car that handles well on street doesn't handle well on track or vice versa, and no where did I say there are different standards for track vs street driving, or that people don't track their cars don't care about a car's handling.

All I said was that yes I agree with you that the track is an ultimate gauge of handling, however I also stated that most owners of cars like the 1,2, or 3-series don't take their cars to track or are buying them primarily for track, nor are these cars built with the track in mind as a priority. Now, that doesn't mean they won't handle well on track, because it still can, I'm just saying most people are not taking them to the track. Most want to have a car that handles well in general driving, thus they judge handling as to how well it drives in general circumstances whether that be on a curvy backroad or highway/general driving.

Handling is used as a general term to how a car feels when driving, when people describe a cars handling they may or may not be referring specifically to track driving. For example, I test drove the M340i and thought that the handling was decent after driving it on some curvy backroads. I did not drive it on a track yet I was able to assess the handling after driving it. Like I said, "handling" is pretty general of a term and can describe a wide variety of things. It can be used whether it be street, track, or both, etc. I advise you read my post clearly because no where does it say what you implicated.
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      02-13-2020, 07:49 AM   #1455
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Originally Posted by Fitz335 View Post
I hope the Supra is a better car, it is 5k more.

But for 3500 I can put an LSD and Tune on the M240i, have a back seat, sunroof, manual, and have a better car.

If I wanted a pure track car I'd just buy a M2C.
Yea & I can make my Hellcat even faster with $3500 too. You are not getting the point
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      02-13-2020, 10:44 AM   #1456
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Looks like they're announcing a new version today, likely a 4 banger and possibly an available manual.
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      02-13-2020, 11:08 AM   #1457
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Looks like they're announcing a new version today, likely a 4 banger and possibly an available manual.
They better announce much better pricing too. It's not a $50k car

Last edited by FuriouslyFast; 02-13-2020 at 01:43 PM..
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      02-13-2020, 12:10 PM   #1458
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Looks like they're announcing a new version today, likely a 4 banger and possibly an available manual.
They netter announce much better pricing too. It's not a $50k car
I don't think they're going to take 50% of the cylinders out and then charge more.
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      02-13-2020, 12:18 PM   #1459
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I don't think they're going to take 50% of the cylinders out and then charge more.
This just in: Toyota, not the same company as Porsche.
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      02-13-2020, 12:21 PM   #1460
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So, would you take a brand spankers new Supra or a well kept 997.2 Carrera S with say 40,000 miles?

Food for thought.

Last edited by Alfisti; 02-13-2020 at 12:35 PM..
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      02-13-2020, 01:10 PM   #1461
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Yea & I can make my Hellcat even faster with $3500 too. You are not getting the point
Hellcat is more expensive than a Supra or M240i....

I'd buy a Supra if they fixed the issues in the next model year. But right now the M240i and M2 are superior cars.
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      02-13-2020, 01:44 PM   #1462
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I don't think they're going to take 50% of the cylinders out and then charge more.
The current car is overpriced. Lower it all. It's a $30k car IMO
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      02-13-2020, 01:50 PM   #1463
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Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast View Post
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I don't think they're going to take 50% of the cylinders out and then charge more.
The current car is overpriced. Lower it all. It's a $30k car IMO
Don't be silly. Name a $30k car that's rear wheel drive, has more than 300hp, fixed calipers, a limited slip and can put up similar track times to an M2C.
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      02-13-2020, 01:55 PM   #1464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast View Post
The current car is overpriced. Lower it all. It's a $30k car IMO
A camry is 30K, that's insane.
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      02-13-2020, 01:58 PM   #1465
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The profit margins in these cars are very very small. We are talking ~8.5% profit on an M2... They have far more than 30k into these cars. While the Supra is an innately cheaper car, I HIGHLY doubt the margins on it are large enough to warrant a massive price decrease. This isn't a 911 here, where the margins are near 50%. There is little wiggle room.
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      02-13-2020, 02:24 PM   #1466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
You are in a very small minority if you think the 1er doesn't handle well.
Current 135i owner here. It doesn't handle all that well stock. I was coming from a Cayman, which is about as good as it gets, and the 135i stock felt bouncy and squishy. Spend a few thousand in M3 and other suspension parts, though, and the 135i becomes fantastic. Spend more on an LSD and tuning stuff, and I'd probably take it over any other modern era BMW.

As far as the Supra goes, it's a fine performing car, but I don't like the style, I don't like that it's basically a BMW underneath, and I don't like that it doesn't have a manual. I'd rather have a used M2 with a stick, and it's much more practical to boot.
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      02-13-2020, 02:26 PM   #1467
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
You are in a very small minority if you think the 1er doesn't handle well.
Current 135i owner here. It doesn't handle all that well stock. Spend a few thousand in M3 and other suspension parts, though, and it is fantastic. Spend more on an LSD and tuning stuff, and I'd probably take it over any other modern era BMW.
Agreed. With those changes it's a great car. I still love the way they look.
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      02-13-2020, 02:33 PM   #1468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Never seen a stock N55 hold power up high. This is base to base, you should see similar comparisons to the 1M vs M2 non comp curves too. The S55 and S58 clearly don't have these shortcomings.

[IMG]https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/u...N54-vs-N55.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/u...ue-750x500.jpg[/IMG]
Those aren't the dyno graphs of the 2014+ N55s. The early non-EWG N55s have smaller turbos. Although BMW kept the power rating the same, there's a difference in stock power and the shape of the curve between the pre-2014 and 2014+ N55s. The EWG N55s can make 390-400whp/400-420wtq on 93 whereas the non-EWG variants are limited to around 360whp/380wtq plus they lose power above 5600rpms.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...7&postcount=74

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vf-...35i-p4585.aspx

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=30

Tunes simply elevate the curve and power still tends to peak between 6000-6200rpm.
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      02-13-2020, 02:36 PM   #1469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Never seen a stock N55 hold power up high. This is base to base, you should see similar comparisons to the 1M vs M2 non comp curves too. The S55 and S58 clearly don't have these shortcomings.

[IMG]https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/u...N54-vs-N55.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/u...ue-750x500.jpg[/IMG]
Those aren't the dyno graphs of the 2014+ N55s. The early non-EWG N55s have smaller turbos. Although BMW kept the power rating the same, there's a difference in stock power and the shape of the curve between the pre-2014 and 2014+ N55s. The EWG N55s can make 390-400whp/400-420wtq on 93 whereas the non-EWG variants are limited to around 360whp/380wtq plus they lose power above 5600rpms.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...8;postcount=74

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vf-...35i-p4585.aspx

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8;postcount=30

Tunes simply elevate the curve and power still tends to peak between 6000-6200rpm.
Okay, so for what, a model year and a half, the N55 wasn't as bad? Then it got replaced with the B58. I doubt anyone misses it. And it took them 9 years to get around to making it at least equal to the previous N54. Imagine if they'd just continued to develop the better motor?

You asked why the opinion remains that the N54 was better. For the great majority of the N55 run, the N54 was a better lump. I don't own either now, don't really miss either. I'd take a goofball, please shim my valves again, S54 over either.
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      02-13-2020, 02:37 PM   #1470
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They better announce much better pricing too. It's not a $50k car
Most new B58 Supras are now being listed $4 to 5K off list so that means you should be able to pick one up for low $50s pretty easily.

These cars run lower 12s stock. They make around 350whp/400wtq stock. A tune alone pushes them into the 400-420whp and 500wtq range. That's a deep 11 second car with $600-800 in mods. If one wants a fast and generally reliable, 2 seater, for around $50K, the Supra fits that bill well.
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      02-13-2020, 02:40 PM   #1471
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4-Cylinder model officially confirmed, now gets the 382hp Inline-6, or at least they changed the stated HP numbers.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...a-photos-info/
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      02-13-2020, 02:53 PM   #1472
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Quote:
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Okay, so for what, a model year and a half, the N55 wasn't as bad? Then it got replaced with the B58. I doubt anyone misses it. And it took them 9 years to get around to making it at least equal to the previous N54. Imagine if they'd just continued to develop the better motor?
Just trying to inform people like yourself that continue to spread misinformation about the N55 because they didn't know about the motor changes in the later years and continue to say the N55 doesn't make power like the N54 and can't sustain power any better either because none of that is true.

It didn't take them 9 years to make a "better" motor to succeed the N54 either. In 2014, the N55 surpassed the stock whp/wtq of the N54. 1M and M2 N55 make similar peak power numbers, but the N55 breathes longer thus the reason why it's the quicker and faster car.

You probably don't know that the 2014+ N55 also uses the S55 forged rods and rod bearings or that the crank in the M235/M2 N55 is forged (vs cast in all other N55s) along with additional oil coolers so that oil overheating is never an issue in those two cars. By better, you're surely not talking about reliability between the N54 and N55
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      02-13-2020, 02:57 PM   #1473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Okay, so for what, a model year and a half, the N55 wasn't as bad? Then it got replaced with the B58. I doubt anyone misses it. And it took them 9 years to get around to making it at least equal to the previous N54. Imagine if they'd just continued to develop the better motor?
Just trying to inform people like yourself that continue to spread misinformation about the N55 because they didn't know about the motor changes in the later years and continue to say the N55 doesn't make power like the N54 and can't sustain power any better either because none of that is true.

It didn't take them 9 years to make a "better" motor to succeed the N54 either. In 2014, the N55 surpassed the stock whp/wtq of the N54. 1M and M2 N55 make similar peak power numbers, but the N55 breathes longer thus the reason why it's the quicker and faster car.

You probably don't know that the 2014+ N55 also uses the S55 forged rods and rod bearings or that the crank in the M235/M2 N55 is forged (vs cast in all other N55s) along with additional oil coolers so that oil overheating is never an issue in those two cars. By better, you're surely not talking about reliability between the N54 and N55
Oh lord, the N54 was perfectly reliable once they finally got around to sorting out the HPFP. But it did take $20k of warranty repairs on ours to get it all sorted, and tons of out of service days. One reason I know how much better a stock E9x handled.
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      02-13-2020, 03:03 PM   #1474
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You asked why the opinion remains that the N54 was better. For the great majority of the N55 run, the N54 was a better lump.
I don't necessarily agree with that, even with early N55s, unless you're looking for power over 400whp, and even that is started to get negated when adding aftermarket turbos, the later N55 forged crank, etc. Outside of the obvious reliability advantage, the N55 feels better and sounds better than the N54, but I only have mine tuned to around 360 whp. Also, the N55 had better cooling in the block.
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