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      03-01-2020, 05:55 PM   #23
DanG
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I think my M2 with 365 hp has more power than you can practically use on the street. That is why I have zero interest in the M2C or the M2CS.
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      03-01-2020, 05:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
I think my M2 with 365 hp has more power than you can practically use on the street. That is why I have zero interest in the M2C or the M2CS.
That and the additional, what, 150 lbs?
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      03-01-2020, 06:52 PM   #25
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I think low 300s to 400 is plenty for me. Anything more and it'll be too easy to be reckless and the fun of accelerating ends too quickly.

What matters more to me is the sensation of speed. Unfortunately modern cars are so NVH-obsessed that the sensation of speed has diminished.
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      03-01-2020, 06:59 PM   #26
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Look at zeroto60times.com

Ballpark: 800hp and 1,000 Nm torque (sorry to mix systems of units) in a 3,000-4,000 lb vehicle. This delivers a 0-60 time in the low-mid 2 second range.

When comparing vehicles also look at top speed. Horsepower is more important than torque to achieve the highest top speed figures.

Last edited by chassis; 03-01-2020 at 07:20 PM..
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      03-01-2020, 07:25 PM   #27
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give me 3200lbs an 600-700hp.
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      03-01-2020, 08:50 PM   #28
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It's a subjective question... And most times, it's a sickness! Once you get more power and drive it, you become used to it, and want more. Yes, HellCat 1kHP is a bit much for the street, but it's legal, so ok. And there's really nothing that can be done for Driver error! The car, like a computer, can only do what you tell it. Lol

So... I'd say with today almost guaranting up to 80-100HP (per cylinder) in an all out street engine is quite good enough. High HP loads like that HellCat are just not sustainable for longevity. So there needs to be balance, that will take it down to the 60-70HP (per cylinder)...

For me, I'm loving my B58 M240iX, and will probably upgrade the cooling system, DP and tune to bump it up between 400-500, not to chase numbers, so wherever the mods take me, and I have a safe tune running, I'll be happy
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      03-01-2020, 09:58 PM   #29
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So I think it's combination of horsepower AND weight. There are more than a few cars with 500+ hp but because it weights more than a sherman tank it doesn't feel that powerful. Put 500 hp in something like a s2000, it's going to be much different than something like a X7.

My car has 400ish hp and weights about 3600 lbs. The power feels like more than enough. Will I maybe add more in the future? Maybe. Is it necessary? Decisively not. That's the fun of it though.
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      03-01-2020, 10:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
I think my M2 with 365 hp has more power than you can practically use on the street. That is why I have zero interest in the M2C or the M2CS.
well if M2 and M2C difference d only been the 40hp difference then it could be more understandable but its not like that as you know.. better brakes, axles from M3/4, better steering rack, things like rear subframe mounting to the body without bushings etc.. and M2C is heavier as well.. in short its a better package on the street, not just 40hp and 70-80nm of torque increase, deserves some interest in that way i believe..
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      03-02-2020, 12:00 AM   #31
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i was just thinking at my last track day that more power would not be a good return on the money. the money would be better spent making the car lighter and handle better (suspension). the car gets to stupid speeds pretty quick for a ten year old car.
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      03-02-2020, 12:08 AM   #32
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Depends on how well the chassis puts down the power and how heavy the car is. Transmission/gearing and diff (open vs lsd) also plays a factor.

Also, torque is more important for me than HP. hence which is why something like a diesel feels crazy strong for daily driving but may not get the most impressive acceleration times. So i'm not using 0-60 times to judge this.

i'd say 150 torque is the min, (mazda 3, civic, eg)

180-200 torque"sufficient"

220-300 "sweet spot"

400+ excessive
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      03-02-2020, 04:35 AM   #33
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All cars feel slow to me;I've been jaded from the acceleration of my 500hp Hayabusa
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      03-02-2020, 06:05 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
So I think it's combination of horsepower AND weight. There are more than a few cars with 500+ hp but because it weights more than a sherman tank it doesn't feel that powerful. Put 500 hp in something like a s2000, it's going to be much different than something like a X7.

My car has 400ish hp and weights about 3600 lbs. The power feels like more than enough. Will I maybe add more in the future? Maybe. Is it necessary? Decisively not. That's the fun of it though.
Exactly. My C6 weighs around 3100 lbs with slightly more than 460/460 to the wheels. Bigger tire out back with good rubber, and it grips pretty good. Plus my wife will ride in this one with me. Some of the other cars I have had she would not get in after one trip.

After all the others I have owned...I find this one to be plenty. Maybe it's because I am getting older!

Edit: But I did get to take a drive in a friends modified GTR where traction isn't an issue and it was very impressive.
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Last edited by Rmtt; 03-02-2020 at 06:24 AM..
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      03-02-2020, 07:25 AM   #35
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I really like the 500-600 range. 600+ is too much on rwd.

Personally going with a 300 low end climbing to 600 in the taller gears and high speed. Should be nice and linear and trying to limit the tq lump.

All the power in the world doesn't matter if you can't hook the rubber.
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      03-02-2020, 07:36 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
What is the reasonable amount of power to propel a 3000 pound sedan to 60MPH (100KPH)?

200HP, 500HP, 1000HP ?

Response time of
5 seconds, 3 seconds, 1 second?

I know it's probably a blasphemy in a BMW enthusiat forum to say that acceleration time does not matter in the real world. Everyone is limited by law and traffic. Yet most vehicles are measured by their response time instead of how practical or efficient they are or how enjoyable they are to drive.

That being said, my 440i xdrive is a lot more enjoyable to drive than my C7 Corvette. It's a lot slower but it's more forgiving, more predictable, less delicate and much roomier. The C7 tried to kill me once or twice and it almost succeeded one time.
I never have to worry about bad roads or bottoming out in a 440i. I know they're not in the same league but people cross shop for vehicles in the same price range all the time.

Isn't it about time for a more practical matrix to measure performance than just power?
It depends on the car. My car is around 380hp with the Active8 but the power delivery was not as smooth as it should be. Then I drove an m240i for a month and have to say that the factory power was enough. It was only 340hp but in the smaller frame and the aggressive factory tune, it was more than enough for the street.
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      03-02-2020, 08:09 AM   #37
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Genuinely feel that at some point it gets a bit silly if you are not tracking the car. If you are tracking I say all bets are off but for a strictly street car, honestly I would be more than happy at about 3400 pounds and 400HP, that is still a solid kick in the pants.

For street use, not DD but being a bit aggressive, it's more revs than power that will induce a smile.

Given the above I am shopping for a weekend, smile inducing car and I have settle don it being a rev happy NA engine, no forced induction.
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      03-02-2020, 08:34 AM   #38
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I think if we're only talking about street driving, I think between 350 to 450 is plenty. I think the character of the car/engine is far more important personally. I have no interest in cars I can't rev out the car every now and again on the street.

All my cars are NA BMW Ms with manual transmissions and I find them perfectly fun for the street. The slowest one is my US spec E36 M3 and I actually have a lot of fun with it because you can row through the gears while merging on the hwy and still be at the speed limit. That's very liberating at times. "Fastest" one is a catless E92 M3 with a Stage 2 tune and I personally think this is probably all I need. I dream of a 997 Turbo or GT3, but I know those cars might even be more overkill.

I will say this: There are cars I feel are inadequate stock. First car that comes to mind is the BRZ/GT86. That car would barely merge on the highway in second gear. I have no problem with them being fun in the corners, but if it frustrates me in daily driving, then it's a no go for me.
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      03-02-2020, 09:38 AM   #39
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would say 500hp for me personally...
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      03-02-2020, 10:26 AM   #40
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I'd much prefer something with adequate, but not awe-inspiring, power and a sensuous exhaust note and great road feel, versus something with tons of power but sounds like a chainsaw on crack and has shitty road manners.
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      03-02-2020, 11:08 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
give me 3200lbs an 600-700hp.
Those parameters fit my Corvette and are good numbers for me also. Low 600ís is enough in my mind for a mostly street, occasional track sports car. The power to weight ratio is just right. Pulls super hard yet still street able and reliable without stressing parts too much. IMO
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      03-02-2020, 11:33 AM   #42
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700hp on 3200 lb car sounds scary to me, but I don't track...
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      03-02-2020, 12:19 PM   #43
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My X3MC has 505 HP (many say itís understated) and itís perfect.

What I really like is that the power only comes alive when you rev it high so driving on the street is no problem but the power is there if you want it.

Many people have installed the Bootmod3 which has significant HP gains and are happy.

Maybe one day Iíll go that route but for now the power is perfect.

Driving other vehicles with less HP now feels like a chore.
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      03-02-2020, 12:57 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Those parameters fit my Corvette and are good numbers for me also. Low 600ís is enough in my mind for a mostly street, occasional track sports car. The power to weight ratio is just right. Pulls super hard yet still street able and reliable without stressing parts too much. IMO
Plus with the choice of FI you went with, it's a lot more fun as it just keeps pulling. I've had PD blower cars before, and you aren't getting traction off the line.

But they are fun for 40mph "rolls".

When I do move up to a C7, I think the perfect combo would be LT's, Intake, and a custom tune. Those are showing to make right in that 450 rwhp range and give you the sound you want.

And you haven't really done anything except improve the breathing, and the gas mileage you get if you keep your foot out of the pedal. No going into the engine...purely "bolt-ons".
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