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      01-17-2023, 10:54 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by sor View Post
Agree on charging infra. It is pretty good in my immediate 800 mile radius in the sense that there are multiple opportunities to charge close together and Iíve never not been able to take a road trip without panic (third year with an EV). However the confidence isnít that high that it will just charge when you plug in, you always wonder if you picked the right stall or will need to move over one.

Aside from that, give me a car that can comfortably do 2-3 hours of driving at a time and stop for 30 minutes and Iím more than happy road tripping.
Our ixís can easily drive 3-4 hours
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      01-17-2023, 01:58 PM   #24
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Automakers in America should give 4 numbers

Range at 60mph
Range at 70mph
Range at 80mph
Range at 90mph

Automakers in Europe should give 3 numbers:

Range at 100 km/h
Range at 120 km/h
Range at 150 km/h

That way people would know the range on the situation that matters them most: long distance travels thatís when you drive at those speeds and itís very important to know the range to plan the stops youíll have to make.

At slow speeds you always have enough range.

Ps: if I have to reduce those numbers to one, it would be Range at 90mph (or 150km/h). Knowing that number I would have enough information.
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      01-17-2023, 02:32 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ixDriver View Post
Upside of northeast traffic & old narrow winding highways is that itís almost impossible to hit 80 let alone 85 anywhere i drive 99% of the time. If I can cruise at 70-75 for 45 minutes at the far end of some trips, off hours, Iím lucky haha.
Even in warmer climate, like here in Houston, the range wouldnít be great. You can easily do 80-90Mph on a commute during non-peak traffic
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      01-17-2023, 03:53 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Even in warmer climate, like here in Houston, the range wouldnít be great. You can easily do 80-90Mph on a commute during non-peak traffic
The highway range at over 75mph is problematic for sure when you often drive on roads that allow for it. This is of course the same issue with every car, but in an EV what it does is then exacerbate the differences EVs have like charging time vs re-fueling time, the lower overall range, etc. and makes those things a road block for some people's use case.

BTW nice to see you again AndroidRobot. I was in the X5 forums when you were around and you were always a great source of info and high quality pics! Are you somewhat interested in the iX or just passing by?
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      01-17-2023, 04:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
Well even though the Tesla Model X long range has a higher EPA rating than the ix. Real world testing by Edmunds showed the opposite to be true:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/ele...nds.html#chart
the thing with range is it depends on so many factors

- how much wind
- which way the wind blowing
- air density
- road surface
- how much bird poop on the road
- air temperature
- spin of the earth
- pull of the moon
- accidental accelerations by the foot
- accidental misjudging regen and using friction brakes
- slipstream of car in front
- super gentle right foot
- tires
- tire pressure
- traffic

could the Edmunds test control all these factors?
maybe the EPA test should be improved but isn't the idea of standardised testing to control these things but just make it more real world?

don't know, just brain fart sorry
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      01-17-2023, 05:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
Well even though the Tesla Model X long range has a higher EPA rating than the ix. Real world testing by Edmunds showed the opposite to be true:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/ele...nds.html#chart
there's a guy called Bjorn on youtube - i watch all his videos and when he drives Teslas get the best whr/mile of any car.

but nobody i know can replicate that - they all tell me Teslas don't have good range.

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      01-17-2023, 05:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G99M5 View Post
there's a guy called Bjorn on youtube - i watch all his videos and when he drives Teslas get the best whr/mile of any car.

but nobody i know can replicate that - they all tell me Teslas don't have good range.

Yes but Bjorn has repeatedly shown that you cannot achieve Tesla's EPA figures on the highway. Even in perfect weather, and at a relatively slow 90km/h (56mph) they don't.

It's not that they don't have good range, they just can't get the advertised range in even perfect conditions doing highway speeds.
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      01-17-2023, 05:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emulajavi View Post
Automakers in America should give 4 numbers

Range at 60mph
Range at 70mph
Range at 80mph
Range at 90mph

Automakers in Europe should give 3 numbers:

Range at 100 km/h
Range at 120 km/h
Range at 150 km/h

That way people would know the range on the situation that matters them most: long distance travels thatís when you drive at those speeds and itís very important to know the range to plan the stops youíll have to make.

At slow speeds you always have enough range.

Ps: if I have to reduce those numbers to one, it would be Range at 90mph (or 150km/h). Knowing that number I would have enough information.
Range at 70 would be enough - they have the MPGe hwy rating listed which is meaningless. They could have range city / range highway - that would be a good education and comparison between EV and PHEV options.
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      01-17-2023, 06:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggalanis View Post
Yes but Bjorn has repeatedly shown that you cannot achieve Tesla's EPA figures on the highway. Even in perfect weather, and at a relatively slow 90km/h (56mph) they don't.

It's not that they don't have good range, they just can't get the advertised range in even perfect conditions doing highway speeds.
Yup this is something people donít get unless they do a deep dive into range tests on YouTube etc.
When you cross shop an EV with Tesla and the Tesla rated range is 30% higher but achievable real world itís only 10% better thatís the difference between no-buy and sure why not.
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      01-17-2023, 10:07 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixDriver View Post
When you cross shop an EV with Tesla and the Tesla rated range is 30% higher but achievable real world itís only 10%
i see so people are not happy with claimed range but in terms of whr/mile - or whatever efficiency matrix of range / battery size it's still 10% better

that makes sense
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      01-17-2023, 11:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G99M5 View Post
i see so people are not happy with claimed range but in terms of whr/mile - or whatever efficiency matrix of range / battery size it's still 10% better

that makes sense
What doesnít make sense is when Porscheís EPA is 190 but can go 240 and Teslaís is 330 and goes 260. The inconsistency makes you have to go do a ton of research (I.e., wait for a real world test review) to understand what the true range is. If I drive very slowly in 70F with no wind and no rain and no heater on, I can get 250 wh/m which is full range. But who wants to - or who can - drive in those conditions? So on my old tesla model 3 perf I averaged 315 wh/mi over 15k miles, which is approx. 79% of the quoted full range number. And you have to start at 80% battery for optimal battery management, so Iíd effectively have 59% usable range on the daily Ö and you donít really want the battery to go below 20%, so now you have 39%. Itís just ridiculous. Oh, and when/if you do start at 100% charge the first 10% is gone very quickly because of no regen brake. Bottom line is itís a great short distance efficient machine, and there are cost savings relative to most ICE options, but the range inconsistencies or variabilities and other requirements are something the average consumer probably isnít aware ofÖ
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      01-17-2023, 11:32 PM   #34
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when i look at that chart the astronomical range at high speed are cars with a second gear (has a 2 speed transmission).

the ones with "one" gear (no transmission altogether) don't do as well at high speed.

but when you drive the taycan at low speed it's very very high power consumption! almost double the tesla.

trouble with transmission is you are adding another complex thing that is going to be the weak link and first to break over the life of the vehicle. if money is no problem then sure. but not for the rest of us.
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      01-18-2023, 07:42 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3macster View Post
What doesnít make sense is when Porscheís EPA is 190 but can go 240 and Teslaís is 330 and goes 260. The inconsistency makes you have to go do a ton of research (I.e., wait for a real world test review) to understand what the true range is. If I drive very slowly in 70F with no wind and no rain and no heater on, I can get 250 wh/m which is full range. But who wants to - or who can - drive in those conditions? So on my old tesla model 3 perf I averaged 315 wh/mi over 15k miles, which is approx. 79% of the quoted full range number. And you have to start at 80% battery for optimal battery management, so Iíd effectively have 59% usable range on the daily Ö and you donít really want the battery to go below 20%, so now you have 39%. Itís just ridiculous. Oh, and when/if you do start at 100% charge the first 10% is gone very quickly because of no regen brake. Bottom line is itís a great short distance efficient machine, and there are cost savings relative to most ICE options, but the range inconsistencies or variabilities and other requirements are something the average consumer probably isnít aware ofÖ
Precisely.
I did a whole stupid excel sheet taking all the known range test sites/youtubers and comparing/averaging across per model.
This was also complicated by different model year / specs being tested in some cases since a lot of these cars have 2-4 flavors (or like 6 for Porsche), plus slight changes to pack sizes and heat pumps year to year.

Another big variable is performance in cold vs ideal warmth.
Cars with heat pumps generally do better, but not all heat pumps are created equal so you end up also wanting to read reviews for that.

InsideEVs is one of several sources I used - https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791...-test-results/

Note Tesla across the board misses their range by 10-15%, while Lucid, Mercedes, BMW and in *some* cases Ford beat theirs by 5-10%, or in Porsche case like 36%.

If that's not confusing enough, 2 similar sounding specs from Ford have different performance vs rating:

2021 Ford
Mustang Mach-E California Route 1 Edition -6%
2021 Ford
Mustang Mach-E AWD Extended Range + 5%
!? So instead of the Cali Rt1 doing 35mi more range, it only does.. 2! more miles, in this test.

Another game some play is that EPA ratings are done at default settings. So for example Tesla defaulted regen to max power over the years, and then slowly took away regen settings in most of their cars so it is stuck at max. So they test well. Then others give you lots of regen & acceleration settings and default to medium-ish, so they test OK, but can be configured by user for better highway cruising.
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      01-18-2023, 08:29 AM   #36
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Quote:
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Precisely.
I did a whole stupid excel sheet taking all the known range test sites/youtubers and comparing/averaging across per model.
Can you share? Would love to see it. That's some great research.
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      01-19-2023, 12:37 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggalanis View Post
The highway range at over 75mph is problematic for sure when you often drive on roads that allow for it. This is of course the same issue with every car, but in an EV what it does is then exacerbate the differences EVs have like charging time vs re-fueling time, the lower overall range, etc. and makes those things a road block for some people's use case.

BTW nice to see you again AndroidRobot. I was in the X5 forums when you were around and you were always a great source of info and high quality pics! Are you somewhat interested in the iX or just passing by?
Iím just passing by, I sold my X5, then got a F87 M2, then to a G80 M3 Comp AWD which was replaced by my current Porsche Boxster GTS 4.0 and I couldnít be happier.

I enjoy reading up on all cars still and drop by accordingly

I appreciate it! I loved my X5 despite the rather problematic times it had.
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      01-19-2023, 12:55 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Iím just passing by, I sold my X5, then got a F87 M2, then to a G80 M3 Comp AWD which was replaced by my current Porsche Boxster GTS 4.0 and I couldnít be happier.

I enjoy reading up on all cars still and drop by accordingly

I appreciate it! I loved my X5 despite the rather problematic times it had.
I do remember about your multiple issues with the X5. My ownership experience was decent overall and when we had issues, like 2 days after delivery when the B&W sound system completely died on us, my dealer did a great job handling it.

I'd also be happy with your Porsche!

Cheers!
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      01-19-2023, 01:14 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by ggalanis View Post
I do remember about your multiple issues with the X5. My ownership experience was decent overall and when we had issues, like 2 days after delivery when the B&W sound system completely died on us, my dealer did a great job handling it.

I'd also be happy with your Porsche!

Cheers!
Thank you, Iím glad your experience has been positive! I really never needed an SUV so I decided to embrace the fun side of things for a while. I have no children nor need for rear seats, even so a 911 might be in my future should I decide to not get the Boxster Spyder Iím waiting on.
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      01-19-2023, 01:16 PM   #40
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Thank you, Iím glad your experience has been positive! I really never needed an SUV so I decided to embrace the fun side of things for a while. I have no children nor need for rear seats, even so a 911 might be in my future should I decide to not get the Boxster Spyder Iím waiting on.
just make sure the rear seats aren't wrinkly
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      01-19-2023, 01:58 PM   #41
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just make sure the rear seats aren't wrinkly
they simply need to be younger and tighterÖ with the leather of course
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      01-21-2023, 04:51 PM   #42
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How accurate are the soc charge status numbers, I currently see 80%/306 miles(climate control turned off) outside temps around 60F. These numbers seem very good but I'm averaging about 29kwh /100 miles at these temps which doesn't add up, do I need to do some kinda reset to adjust the SOC numbers?
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