[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by ashkgerd2

The interior is okay. The exterior is bland. Where it truly fails is range. By the time it comes out in 2022, Tesla model X will likely be in 400+ miles range. It is depressing to see BMW so far behind.

There is no range war with Tesla, at least with the Germans. Tesla sells based on range because everything else about the car is sub par and that's absolutely fine. What BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Porsche offer is "just enough range" but not skimp out on anything else.

Depending on who you ask, range isn't that big of an issue as it was when Tesla came out with the Model S. We have slowly shifted to electric cars as being outfitted with the same quality of ICE vehicles. As electric vehicles get more and more popular, people are going to look at everything else other than range.

[Penguino]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

There is no range war with Tesla, at least with the Germans. Tesla sells based on range because everything else about the car is sub par and that's absolutely fine. What BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Porsche offer is "just enough range" but not skimp out on anything else.

Depending on who you ask, range isn't that big of an issue as it was when Tesla came out with the Model S. We have slowly shifted to electric cars as being outfitted with the same quality of ICE vehicles. As electric vehicles get more and more popular, people are going to look at everything else other than range.

Well said.

I'm still struggling on the advantages of 350 miles range vs 300 and what possible limitations that could provide on a everyday use.

[bandwagn]

Oh why did they succumb to the floating roof trend

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Penguino

Well said.

I'm still struggling on the advantages of 350 miles range vs 300 and what possible limitations that could provide on a everyday use.

With Tesla, I find their superchargers to be a bigger advantage than the range. Tesla is like Apple, there's an ecosystem that only they have and its integrated much better than other companies.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by clee1982

now show us i4 already!

Soon.

[Penguino]

Originally Posted by jstein55

With Tesla, I find their superchargers to be a bigger advantage than the range. Tesla is like Apple, there's an ecosystem that only they have and its integrated much better than other companies.

So the marginal range delta is irrelevant then.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by Penguino

Well said.

I'm still struggling on the advantages of 350 miles range vs 300 and what possible limitations that could provide on a everyday use.

Depends heavily on their battery technology but there's more to this than just how many miles you can go before the battery runs out of juice. Electric cars are unlike ICE vehicles in that their performance is not consistent at all charge levels.

My Tesla is extremely quick when fully charged but noticeably slower by the time the battery charge is down to about 70% full. Below 50% it's much slower than when it was full. This means that when I leave my house at 90% charge every morning, the car is a little more sluggish on the drive home and is annoyingly slow if I don't charge for 2-3 days. It's not really slow but you do miss the full charge power when it isn't there.

If you're buying a replacement for a Camry and want just get to work everyday it's fine and I know several Model 3 owners who only charge once a week (they don't have chargers in their garages) but if you're buying a sporty, fun sedan this becomes very noticeable.

The Porsche Taycan isn't like this, it's very nearly as quick at 20% charge as it is at 100%, so there are a couple of ways to get around this type of limitation.

[Staszek]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

There is no range war with Tesla, at least with the Germans. Tesla sells based on range because everything else about the car is sub par and that's absolutely fine. What BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Porsche offer is "just enough range" but not skimp out on anything else.

Depending on who you ask, range isn't that big of an issue as it was when Tesla came out with the Model S. We have slowly shifted to electric cars as being outfitted with the same quality of ICE vehicles. As electric vehicles get more and more popular, people are going to look at everything else other than range.

Agreed. I am looking to jump into the EV and have been looking at the Taycan Turbo. Yes its got less range than a Tesla S, yes it could be slower off the line, but really if those are the only two stats you looked at making a decision you would miss out on an awesome car.

The two are not even in the same category when you drive them, the Porsche feels like a Porsche, fit, and finish is amazing and it drives sublime. The Telsa feels like an appliance to me, that is ok for people who want stomping off the line performance and need better range. But the interior is not well built, and it doesn't inspire any kind of feeling.

I do think 300 range is good enough, is 350 better, yea but its not like one is 350 and the other is 150. That would be a huge difference considering most people dont drive over 300 miles in a single sitting. If you do regularly pure EVs may not even be the right car for you right now.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Penguino

So the marginal range delta is irrelevant then.

Depends on the person. To me 300 vs 350 isn't too big of a deal, but 300 is the absolute minimum preference for me purely because I do long distance trips a couple times a year. The idea of having extra range for the few times I may need it is very nice, even if only used rarely, however that also depends if you will be using your EV for long distance, as some people have other vehicles for that. Anything greater is better, the more the merrier. Like I said though, Tesla's ecosystem and supercharger network is a larger advantage for me, especially for long-distance trips. Supercharging is much easier, quicker and more reliable than third party chargers, and nicely integrated into Tesla's infotainment and maps.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

There is no range war with Tesla, at least with the Germans. Tesla sells based on range because everything else about the car is sub par and that's absolutely fine. What BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Porsche offer is "just enough range" but not skimp out on anything else.

Depending on who you ask, range isn't that big of an issue as it was when Tesla came out with the Model S. We have slowly shifted to electric cars as being outfitted with the same quality of ICE vehicles. As electric vehicles get more and more popular, people are going to look at everything else other than range.

Bingo! 300 miles is more than enough for a daily driver, which will be its primary use 99.9% of the time. The advantage of an EV, at least for me, is plugging in every night. I have a full "tank" every morning.

I can see how this isn't feasible for those who live in an apartment, but I don't think the EV is there yet for those people. We would need an EV that fully charges in 5-15 minutes. I think we are 5 years away from a supporting infrastructure.

For those that want this for a road trip, I think it's certainly doable with 300 miles, but not as convenient as just filling up on gas. I would rent a car or have another, but it is not a factor in buying this car. Personally, this would only be a commuter car with some weekend use. I would still use one of my other ICE cars for road trips more than a few hundred miles.

Too much emphasis on range when it doesn't really matter once you get over 200 for what this vehicle is intended for.

[BMWILUVU]

Its very nice until I saw the grille. I would not buy this car at least Tesla has neutral styling.

[mckman]

The styling successor to the Pontiac Aztek.

[

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by mckman

The styling successor to the Pontiac Aztek.

[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...408_125514.jpg[/IMG]

Both are extremely ugly

So you're definitely on point

[TonM3]

OMG, that grill

[Murf993]

Why does an EV need such a large ugly grill?

[Frosty]

windshield washer fluid!

[TonM3]

Bangle is somewhere laughing his ass off

[DCG]

I have to admit I used to like Adrian van Hooydonk's design concepts when he worked under Chris Bangle, but now as BMW Group's Design Director I think he is failing unfortunately.

Something has happened within the Design Team or it is the suits ok'ing and choosing lame designs. They're going in too many different directions, not consistent. It's time for BMW to start looking for a new Design Director!

[wdskukm3]

I like it. Even with that front nose. To me it actually works on this car. I already have a Tesla so I wouldn't mind trying out a different electric car.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Frosty

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]windshield washer fluid! [/COLOR]


Attachment 2458710

I wonder if this means no frunk?

[Penguino]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Depends on the person. To me 300 vs 350 isn't too big of a deal, but 300 is the absolute minimum preference for me purely because I do long distance trips a couple times a year. The idea of having extra range for the few times I may need it is very nice, even if only used rarely, however that also depends if you will be using your EV for long distance, as some people have other vehicles for that. Anything greater is better, the more the merrier. Like I said though, Tesla's ecosystem and supercharger network is a larger advantage for me, especially for long-distance trips. Supercharging is much easier, quicker and more reliable than third party chargers, and nicely integrated into Tesla's infotainment and maps.

Sure. 300 is the absolute minimum, but for us, we'll never be an electric single-car household so the range doesn't really bother us since we have an SUV for long hauls.

My i3 with a measly 88-mile range was a blast to drive as a daily. It did require a daily charge but that wasn't an issue since the car was garaged every night.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by jstein55

I wonder if this means no frunk?

I would leave it like that up so that the BMW emblem isn't visible at all.