[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars

Wth are you talking about?

He's probably referring to the inference about what EVs are going to do with major natural disasters and charging. This was brought up with the earlier posts from Hurricane Ian and people evacuating. RM7 is retorting about the same power outage affecting gas pumps.

But a backup generator at gas stations would easily solve any power outage problems and keep the pumps working.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

WASHINGTON, DC – The Obama Administration today finalized groundbreaking standards that will increase fuel economy to the equivalent of 54.5 mpg for cars and light-duty trucks by Model Year 2025.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...iency-standard

^ and then it got overruled by people that wouldn't accept it.

That article is 10 years old.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-yor...35-11664487387

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/10/01...-says-analyst/

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...9-bd21bc41ca40

https://www.nj.com/opinion/2022/09/n...editorial.html


This is all happening already, in 2022. Soon to be 12 years away from "the gas ban".

I'm not sure what you're arguing. That they're going to reverse the ban and get rid of all the EV's? They're not. They are moving foward with this no matter what anyone says.

[CarsAndGuitars]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

He's probably referring to the inference about what EVs are going to do with major natural disasters and charging. This was brought up with the earlier posts from Hurricane Ian and people evacuating. RM7 is retorting about the same power outage affecting gas pumps.

But a backup generator at gas stations would easily solve any power outage problems and keep the pumps working.

That was my post about Ian. My point was about people trying to evacuate BEFORE the shit hits the fan and prior to returning. So I don't get the relevance of the comment about power out at gas pumps

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

That article is 10 years old.

.

Exactly, another "environmental mandate" that got pared back, eliminated, or overruled.

10 years ago, this was law. Now it is not. This law in my link lasted about ~5 years. Then when they tried to figure out how to make it happen, they realized they couldn't. How many years will this law last ?

There are many, many examples of this sort of thing happening going back decades.

Many (myself included) think this 2035 EV mandate will get pared backs, highly altered or possibly eliminated. In part because I think it's a setup for failure of critical infrastructure systems, and in part because I have observed our history and use it in context when I seen our "futures" predicted.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Exactly, another "environmental mandate" that got pared back, eliminated, or overruled.

10 years ago, this was law. Now it is not. This law in my link lasted about ~5 years. Then when they tried to figure out how to make it happen, they realized they couldn't. How many years will this law last ?

There are many, many examples of this sort of thing happening going back decades.

Many (myself included) think this 2035 EV mandate will get pared backs, highly altered or possibly eliminated. In part because I think it's a setup for failure of critical infrastructure systems, and in part because I have observed our history and use it in context when I seen our "futures" predicted.

Yup. Just like when the new Administration took over and shut down the pipeline and started relying on other countries for gas. Gas sky rockets, Biden is begging for other countries to give us a break. Lol. Then the Government pays oil refineries to start making more gas after they say they want them gone. 🤡🤡🤡. That must have been like drinking acid for them. Lol

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Exactly, another "environmental mandate" that got pared back, eliminated, or overruled.

10 years ago, this was law. Now it is not. This law in my link lasted about ~5 years. Then when they tried to figure out how to make it happen, they realized they couldn't. How many years will this law last ?

There are many, many examples of this sort of thing happening going back decades.

Many (myself included) think this 2035 EV mandate will get pared backs, highly altered or possibly eliminated. In part because I think it's a setup for failure of critical infrastructure systems, and in part because I have observed our history and use it in context when I seen our "futures" predicted.

That is totally different than the mandates set in place today lol. Wtf?

You're talking about 10 years ago when tesla was the runaway show in terms of EV's. Now every single car maker as an EV(s) in their fleet. There was no 2035 ban set in place. There was no state implementing a "sale on new gas cars" ban. I can't see how the article you posted has any relevance to what is going on today.

The only thing we don't know yet is the actual 2035 date. If the next person in office moves this date, it could be sooner, or it could be farther. But eliminated? lol That's a pipe dream for many.

I do commend your passion to not wanting EV's to happen. I get it.

But it's going to happen dude. Like just accept it already. You don't have to buy one. You don't have to love it. When 2035 comes, and you can't go to your favorite car maker showroom (I actually believe the dealership experience will change by then anyway and you can just buy from your house), you won't be able to drive away in an awesome twin turbo I6 or V8, or whatever engine you like in your car, home. You'll have to settle for the used market filled with lots of amazing ICE toys.

12 years is far away from now so you have time. But at the same time 12 years is really not that far away lol

[CarsAndGuitars]

Here's another armchair expert weighing in
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...president-says

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

That is totally different than the mandates set in place today lol. Wtf?

I guess it is true that it's totally different, the now defunct law I mentioned was federal, and backed by the powers and dollars of the fed. It was a national ban on the sale of new gas cars that did not meet minimum MPG standards.

These 2035 laws are just unfunded state mandates with no real power or plan to accommodate the consequences of this mandate.

I do commend your passion to not wanting EV's to happen. I get it.

I have no such passion. I do however have a passion for logic and reason, and I want to see the timing of this shift aligned with reality.

But it's going to happen dude. Like just accept it already.

I know, and that's why I'm speaking up now before they wreck things.

12 years is far away from now so you have time. But at the same time 12 years is really not that far away lol

In the power grid industry that will serve this new load, this 12 years is not even half the time they need to accomplish the goal, and that assumes we have already invented all of the solutions needed, which we haven't.

You are trying to force the sale of a product you don't even have.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

I guess it is true that it's totally different, the now defunct law I mentioned was federal, and backed by the powers and dollars of the fed. It was a national ban on the sale of new gas cars that did not meet minimum MPG standards.

So please show me where car makers are backing out of this? And we don't need another toyota link. It seems that toyota doesn't agree with this because only 5-8 years ago, camry's and prius's dominated the "taxi/uber" duty. Now it's been taken over by tesla. Uber even announced by 2030 ALL uber drivers MUST BE DRIVING EV's. Not an option, MANDATORY.

These 2035 laws are just unfunded state mandates with no real power or plan to accommodate the consequences of this mandate.

The difference between your link, and your logic, was that 10 years ago there was no EV besides the intro to tesla and what? A chevy bolt? A couple of hybrids?

Now there's discontinuation of iconic ICE monsters, the intro of EV's to replace it and a whole of EV's already in production with more on the way.

The issue with your argument is that the weight is going towards EV and less on ICE. As time moves foward this will be more apparent. You're not seeing this because it's happening in real time. Let's revisit this thread in 1 year increments.

I have no such passion. I do however have a passion for logic and reason, and I want to see the timing of this shift aligned with reality.

I guess i can use the same response just above.

I know, and that's why I'm speaking up now before they wreck things.

Let me clarify something. I am NOT saying what is happening is better for the environment or not. I couldn't give 2 shits about the environment. If i didn't care about my neighbors, my M3 would be catless with a full exhaust, and the same with my C7Z. I don't have a care in the world about polluting the air. I got my EV because i love the way it drives, love the simplicity and i love the idea. I don't like politics and care nothing for it but if the government wants to take our ICE toys away, what can we do? Nothing. And i happen to love my tesla so i'm ok with whatever happens in the future.

In the power grid industry that will serve this new load, this 12 years is not even half the time they need to accomplish the goal, and that assumes we have already invented all of the solutions needed, which we haven't.

You are trying to force the sale of a product you don't even have.

So then you know more than anybody out there. If they put a 2035, they will make sure the grid can handle it. If it can't, they fucked up and they'll readjust the date.

That's why i said the only thing we don't know is the actual date. Could be pushed farther but technology can catch up and it might be sooner. We don't know.

But you're implying one day you'll wake up, open up the news and read, "EV's are being pushed back, ICE is staying for another 50 years".

That won't happen.

[CarsAndGuitars]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

So then you know more than anybody out there. If they put a 2035, they will make sure the grid can handle it. If it can't, they fucked up and they'll readjust the date.

That's why i said the only thing we don't know is the actual date. Could be pushed farther but technology can catch up and it might be sooner. We don't know.

How can you say that with a straight face? The grid ALREADY can't handle the load. Just ask Newsome.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars

How can you say that with a straight face? The grid ALREADY can't handle the load. Just ask Newsome.

So no improvements can be made?

Like i said you guys are judging from the sidelines in real time. You can't see the evolution, the improvements, and whatever corrections needed to be made. You're acting like i'm saying it's perfect now. It's not. We all know this.

12 years is what we have. If they put a 2035 ban, that means they're confident by 2035 we'll all be ready.

We don't know if this date is set in stone or not. The next person in office could very well change this. Could be sooner, could be later.

What i'm saying is that THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT.

[CarsAndGuitars]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

So no improvements can be made?

Like i said you guys are judging from the sidelines in real time. You can't see the evolution, the improvements, and whatever corrections needed to be made. You're acting like i'm saying it's perfect now. It's not. We all know this.

12 years is what we have. If they put a 2035 ban, that means they're confident by 2035 we'll all be ready.

We don't know if this date is set in stone or not. The next person in office could very well change this. Could be sooner, could be later.

What i'm saying is that THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT.

I would accept incremental evolution of EVs into the mainstream, not prematurely forcing them down our throats as a political initiative

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars

I would accept incremental evolution of EVs into the mainstream, not prematurely forcing them down our throats as a political initiative

Ok that i agree with.

It is wrong they want to put some type of date. I already said that they should just let this technology transition naturally.

That's why i said i don't like politics and don't care for it.

I just so happen to like EV's so whatever they said about it happening, meaning the end of ICE, i guess it is what it is. I'm 40 so by the time i'm in my 50's, and new ICE is definitely over, so be it. I still have a used market.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

So no improvements can be made?

Like i said you guys are judging from the sidelines in real time. You can't see the evolution, the improvements, and whatever corrections needed to be made. You're acting like i'm saying it's perfect now. It's not. We all know this.

12 years is what we have. If they put a 2035 ban, that means they're confident by 2035 we'll all be ready.

We don't know if this date is set in stone or not. The next person in office could very well change this. Could be sooner, could be later.

What i'm saying is that THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT.

Yawn

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars

I would accept incremental evolution of EVs into the mainstream, not prematurely forcing them down our throats as a political initiative

I think this is the point. California is just one state. There are 17 states that follow California's emission standards. 12 years is a lot of political time to elect state politicians who will reverse CARB emission standards. 3/4 of the US population doesn't live in states than plan to ban ice. Not everyone one likes EV, the majority of people like ICE.

I know how I plan to vote...

[CarsAndGuitars]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think this is the point. California is just one state. There are 17 states that follow California's emission standards. 12 years is a lot of political time to elect state politicians who will reverse CARB emission standards. 3/4 of the US population doesn't live in states than plan to ban ice. Not everyone one likes EV, the majority of people like ICE.

I know how I plan to vote...

No one legislated horses off the road 100+ years ago because there was too much horseshit in the streets. "Modern" automobiles (relative to the time) were a natural (unforced) evolution of the technology and public acceptance that went through many stepping stones, advancements, and setbacks.

[BGM-M3COMP]

90% of the people who drive cars use their cars for appliances. We're automotive enthusiasts trying not to let go what we currently know/have. That 90% does not care about that. They literally buy cars like people buy phones. You use, abuse, see a new model come out, then we go for that new model.

If they can charge their car in the convenience of typical gas station trip, that's the car they'll buy. Could be an EV. If it ran on donkey piss, they'd get that car too, if it's time convenient. The growth of EV purchases are only proof that people are making this move already. And we're still "far away" from the 2035 ban.

As battery technology improves, which it will, and is right now as i'm typing, so will charging, thus those 90% of those people willing to make the transition.

[CarsAndGuitars]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

90% of the people who drive cars use their cars for appliances. We're automotive enthusiasts trying not to let go what we currently know/have. That 90% does not care about that. They literally buy cars like people buy phones. You use, abuse, see a new model come out, then we go for that new model.

If they can charge their car in the convenience of typical gas station trip, that's the car they'll buy. Could be an EV. If it ran on donkey piss, they'd get that car too, if it's time convenient. The growth of EV purchases are only proof that people are making this move already. And we're still "far away" from the 2035 ban.

As battery technology improves, which it will, and is right now as i'm typing, so will charging, thus those 90% of those people willing to make the transition.

I don't pretend to have a pulse on what 90% of people think.

Your blind optimism is boundless

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

So please show me where car makers are backing out of this?

Now there's discontinuation of iconic ICE monsters, the intro of EV's to replace it and a whole of EV's already in production with more on the way.

They aren't backing out, and they are well under way to making them the only option.

Which one of them has a plan to work out the power source side of this revolution?

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

And we don't need another toyota link. It seems that toyota doesn't agree with this because only 5-8 years ago, camry's and prius's dominated the "taxi/uber" duty. Now it's been taken over by tesla. Uber even announced by 2030 ALL uber drivers MUST BE DRIVING EV's. Not an option, MANDATORY.

Good for them. Who will build the infrastructure to fill those batteries? Where will those watts come from?

The difference between your link, and your logic, was that 10 years ago there was no EV besides the intro to tesla and what? A chevy bolt? A couple of hybrids?

No, I'm not talking about what cars were available, I'm talking about mandating changes that can't be realized. the logic is : those in charge mandated a change to what can be sold, and after 5 years it became apparent they could not deliver on that mandate. They were planning on a solution to make their vision possible to be invented, that never got invented. The mandate was struck down/changed.

I think the same will happen again.

Let me clarify something. I am NOT saying what is happening is better for the environment or not. I couldn't give 2 shits about the environment.

You apparently don't give 2 shits about reliable power either. Some of us do, some care about all of the above.

if the government wants to take our ICE toys away, what can we do? Nothing.

Laws can be changed/rescinded. I already gave example of this, and there are many others.

So then you know more than anybody out there. If they put a 2035, they will make sure the grid can handle it. If it can't, they fucked up and they'll readjust the date.

Yes, after they have fucked it up. = brownouts and power curtailment. mandatory changes to our way of life in areas you didn't realize were in jeopardy. Myself and my colleagues are the ones being tasked with figuring this out. When we say you are about to fuck it up, the answer is "I don't care, 2035 or bust baby. EV's are coming whether you like it or not. Don't be a hater..."

That's why i said the only thing we don't know is the actual date. Could be pushed farther but technology can catch up and it might be sooner. We don't know.

I might win the lottery, but I don't know. I'm not quitting my job until I do.

But you're implying one day you'll wake up, open up the news and read, "EV's are being pushed back, ICE is staying for another 50 years".

No, I'm telling you we will either :

• force this to happen and wreck our grid and quality of life.
  
• fail to deliver on time and have to move the date, a lot. This will strand a lot of manufactures with no ICE's to deliver to market because they will have already abandoned that segment of the market.

Either way, it sucks.

You could accomplish the same goal without any down sides if this were planned differently.

[CarsAndGuitars]

^^ great post

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars

I don't pretend to have a pulse on what 90% of people think.

Your blind optimism is boundless

You can either cry and bitch now (too late). Or cry and bitch later.

Get the fuck over it. EV's are coming.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

They aren't backing out, and they are well under way to making them the only option.

Which one of them has a plan to work out the power source side of this revolution?





Good for them. Who will build the infrastructure to fill those batteries? Where will those watts come from?



No, I'm not talking about what cars were available, I'm talking about mandating changes that can't be realized. the logic is : those in charge mandated a change to what can be sold, and after 5 years it became apparent they could not deliver on that mandate. They were planning on a solution to make their vision possible to be invented, that never got invented. The mandate was struck down/changed.

I think the same will happen again.






You apparently don't give 2 shits about reliable power either. Some of us do, some care about all of the above.



Laws can be changed/rescinded. I already gave example of this, and there are many others.





Yes, after they have fucked it up. = brownouts and power curtailment. mandatory changes to our way of life in areas you didn't realize were in jeopardy. Myself and my colleagues are the ones being tasked with figuring this out. When we say you are about to fuck it up, the answer is "I don't care, 2035 or bust baby. EV's are coming whether you like it or not. Don't be a hater..."




I might win the lottery, but I don't know. I'm not quitting my job until I do.



No, I'm telling you we will either :

• force this to happen and wreck our grid and quality of life.
  
• fail to deliver on time and have to move the date, a lot. This will strand a lot of manufactures with no ICE's to deliver to market because they will have already abandoned that segment of the market.

Either way, it sucks.

You could accomplish the same goal without any down sides if this were planned differently.

Run for presidency and make a difference.

I don't give 2 shits about how it's going to work, will it work, will it affect the environment, the grid, the people, the manufacturers or any of that bullshit.

I like the EV i got and i like the idea. The idea of the fast growing rate of people buying EV's are proof people are on the same page. Obviously you'll have your doubters, like yourself.

BUT AGAIN WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT?

Not a damn fucking thing. Accept it already. You're acting like you have the answer. You don't. ANd if you did, you can't do shit about it to change what's to come.

Now which EV are you going to buy in the future?