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      04-13-2021, 01:31 PM   #1
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What will be the new benchmark for EV?

Now that every manufacturers are switching over to BEV. What will be some of the new benchmarks and bragging rights for automotive performance?

1. Light weight -- 2500# curb weight?
2. Top speed 300MPH?
3. Quick acceleration -- 0-60 times in less than 1.9 seconds?
4. Cost less than $20K ?
5. 1000 miles range?
6. Power consumption rate at less than 3kW/mile ?
7. 1500HP, 2000lb-ft torque ?

There has to be a barrier where we can't break any more records or does it keep on going?
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      04-13-2021, 01:43 PM   #2
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I'm still waiting for the first benchmark in an affordable, no compromise EV made by a legitimate automaker. The Ford Mach E is a good start but there's really not a lot of compelling EV's right now.
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      04-13-2021, 02:05 PM   #3
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I'll settle for one that's not ugly as shit, or styled weirdly, and doesn't have a TV screen stuck on the dash.

The real benchmarks are a $35K price, 350-mile range, and a 5-minute recharge time for a battery lifecycle of 250,000 miles. And not ugly as shit (did I mention that already?).
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      04-13-2021, 02:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I'm still waiting for the first benchmark in an affordable, no compromise EV made by a legitimate automaker. The Ford Mach E is a good start but there's really not a lot of compelling EV's right now.
Yup.
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      04-13-2021, 02:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
Now that every manufacturers are switching over to BEV. What will be some of the new benchmarks and bragging rights for automotive performance?
Cost, energy density, efficiency, and charge times are what matter right now. Those are driving R&D because the players who lead in these areas are the ones that are going to dominate in the coming decades.

The other superlatives like speed and acceleration matter, but only to a small subset of the market. No mainstream / full-line automaker is going down on the basis of not being able to build an electric sports car or super car. But some of them may very well tank if they cannot keep up with the pack in the volume segments.

Quote:
There has to be a barrier where we can't break any more records or does it keep on going?
Regardless of the technology, someone's always going to set their sites on building a faster vehicle than the world has ever seen. That's not going to change.
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      04-13-2021, 04:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I'm still waiting for the first benchmark in an affordable, no compromise EV made by a legitimate automaker. The Ford Mach E is a good start but there's really not a lot of compelling EV's right now.
There's an up and comer in the EV space called "Tesla." You should check them out.
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      04-13-2021, 05:00 PM   #7
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one that incites some level of emotion when driving it.
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      04-13-2021, 06:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
There's an up and comer in the EV space called "Tesla." You should check them out.
I said "legitimate automaker". EV's with 80's K-car build quality don't interest me.
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      04-13-2021, 07:15 PM   #9
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i'd say range and how quick it can charge

majority of people dont care about weight or performance. most just want to stab the pedal and feel acceleration for a second or two. and that straight line performance is limited by tire tech. pretty soon a model 3 will get the plaid setup and run 9s too.
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      04-13-2021, 11:38 PM   #10
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Had been driving Audi etron for a week as a loaner and that changed my perception on EV. I never cared about EV and only thought of EV as quick Tesla or ugly Toyota. But after driving Etron for a week, I am surprised how smooth EV is and overall sensation it gave. Perhaps loaded Etron was a cut above than normal but seamless transition into drive along with futuristic sound was totally enlightening experience coming from V8 S7. Short range of Etron didnt matter to me at all as I only do lots of local driving and that 180miles seemed never depleting for me. It looked like local driving with good regen rate kept the range longer than supposed to. For me, benchmark would be luxurious interior and cool exterior with whatever range it can give out as long as charging rate is fast. I can careless about speed.
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      04-13-2021, 11:53 PM   #11
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here is the real future of EV's.....FEV's

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      04-14-2021, 07:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
There's an up and comer in the EV space called "Tesla." You should check them out.
Looking for legitimate automaker, not cars that look like they were built by a couple guys in a shed over the weekend.
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      04-14-2021, 07:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
i'd say range and how quick it can charge
That is purely battery tech. When solid state batteries become mainstream, all EV will meet those requirements, and every current EV will become obsolete.
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      04-14-2021, 07:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I'll settle for one that's not ugly as shit, or styled weirdly, and doesn't have a TV screen stuck on the dash.

The real benchmarks are a $35K price, 350-mile range, and a 5-minute recharge time for a battery lifecycle of 250,000 miles. And not ugly as shit (did I mention that already?).
Mileage anxiety is such a farce. Mazda got it right when they made the MX30, ultimately, all that range means more weight being dragged around.

I'd say a BEV that starts at 25k, with maybe a range of 150 miles, and a 5 minute charge time (with lesser range, it should mean faster charge), that's not completely driven by a giant screen would be a winner (hell I'd buy one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by six75LT View Post
one that incites some level of emotion when driving it.
Ain't it the truth, but it is also fairly obvious we are slowly being removed from the whole experience.
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      04-14-2021, 07:22 AM   #15
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Benchmarks needed to be achieved:

- 500 miles per charge
- 5 minutes charging time from 0% to 100% charge
- no change in performance or range from +120 deg F to -40 deg F ambient temperature
- no change in performance or range over the life of the vehicle, say 150k miles/10 years

Last edited by chassis; 04-14-2021 at 11:12 AM..
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      04-14-2021, 09:48 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
here is the real future of EV's.....FEV's

Ah... No. FEV and UAM is even farther out than Tesla's car that can actually drive itself.
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      04-14-2021, 01:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chassis View Post
Benchmarks needed to be achieved:
- 500 miles per charge
- 5 minutes charging time from 0% to 100% charge
I think this will be very difficult. Roughly this needs a 3000kW energy flow (I expect you need about 150kWh to realistically get 500 miles) and I doubt they will go 1000V+ safety wise on charging.
That means you roughly need a 220lbs charge cable if it's 10ft long.
That is not something a person can handle anymore.

There is of course an alternative, called hydrogen.
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      04-14-2021, 02:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
I think this will be very difficult. Roughly this needs a 3000kW energy flow (I expect you need about 150kWh to realistically get 500 miles) and I doubt they will go 1000V+ safety wise on charging.
That means you roughly need a 220lbs charge cable if it's 10ft long.
That is not something a person can handle anymore.

There is of course an alternative, called hydrogen.
This is the point I try to make all the time on this subject. While battery tech may slowly increase energy density, the cost will increase and the charging infrastructure cost will increase along with the need for specialized training of charging personnel. The are limits of physics and chemistry that will limit charge density and cost per kilowatt.
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      04-14-2021, 02:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I'm still waiting for the first benchmark in an affordable, no compromise EV made by a legitimate automaker. The Ford Mach E is a good start but there's really not a lot of compelling EV's right now.
Iím not sure you can find an affordable and also no-compromise car of any type really, but the current crop of EVs are generally good cars if they fit your lifestyle. I mean if you have a place to charge overnight and donít drive 100+miles each way to work. They can make great 2nd cars.
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      04-14-2021, 03:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
I think this will be very difficult. Roughly this needs a 3000kW energy flow (I expect you need about 150kWh to realistically get 500 miles) and I doubt they will go 1000V+ safety wise on charging.
That means you roughly need a 220lbs charge cable if it's 10ft long.
That is not something a person can handle anymore.

There is of course an alternative, called hydrogen.
What would it take to get 300 miles of charge in 10 minutes? I think most people would be fine with this combination of range vs recharge time.

In reality you will likely plug in most evenings when you get home. So you will never need to fully recharge unless on a road trip. Then stopping for 10 minutes every 4hrs isn't a big deal. (This is just typical scenario, obviously there are exceptions)
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      04-14-2021, 03:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chassis View Post
Benchmarks needed to be achieved:

- 500 miles per charge
- 5 minutes charging time from 0% to 100% charge
- no change in performance or range from +120 deg F to -40 deg F ambient temperature
- no change in performance or range over the life of the vehicle, say 150k miles/10 years
Is any ICE car is able to deliver on all these benchmarks? I'm confident in my guess of "no."

Most ICE cars have parts that start failing at increasing levels of expense at 40k, 60k, 100k miles, so expecting that all of those benchmarks need to be achieved for an electric car in addition to some ridiculously high mileage on the battery is very unreasonable.
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      04-14-2021, 03:34 PM   #22
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Hopefully not measured in performance… This is how I imagine EV owners talking about performance (0:05 - 1:00)

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