[wjones14]

A dealer near me has a Hyper Blue 2SS 6-speed manual in the showroom. Options were Ceramic white leather seats and accents, Magnetic Ride Control, MyLink touchscreen with Navigation, and NPP exhaust. Total MSRP is $45,880, and they're advertising it with a $1,000 discount off MSRP.

The 2SS includes niceties such as heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel, HUD, power memory seats, dual zone climate control, and Bose premium audio system.

First impressions were that you can't see much outside. The rear window is ridiculously small and high - rear camera and parking sensors are a must, and fortunately, the 2SS includes them. Visibility out the windshield is okay, but the car has a long hood and you sit very low in the car, so it's hard to see just how long the hood actually is. I'm sure you'd get used to the size, but it's a big car compared to the 2 Series.

Other than the visibility concerns, the tech in the car is quite impressive. I sat in the car for about 15 minutes while the salesman showed me the electronics and infotainment system. Let's just say it has a LOT more features than the Technology Package in the M235i. Wi-Fi hotspot. Customizable digital gauges. 25 color choices for ambient lighting. Apple Car Play. Siri. Navigation maps on the touch screen and between the Speedo and Tachometer. It's almost too much.

It's bitterly cold here in New England right now, and the car had Goodyear Eagle F1 tires, so there's not going to be any meaningful test drives with this car for another month or so. I'd love to hear that NPP quad exhaust, and feel what 455 horsepower is like, but that will have to wait.

I know the stereotypical Camaro buyer used to have the mullet hair and all, but this is a different Camaro today. The price in the mid-$40K range means it's not all that affordable any more, though the price is a bargain considering the performance you get.

I was impressed for sure. I just don't know that I'd want to go from what I consider a perfect-sized car to something that big again. On a track it would be no problem and absolutely awesome in fact. But as a daily driver, 16 mpg and all that bulk, I just don't know... If only I had the space and the means to keep the M235i AND have the 2SS in the garage!

Here's the window sticker: http://www.bobvalentichevy.com/f_Win...FG1R78G0135841

[SakhirM4]

And people are complaining about BMW warrant/maintenance - here is the Camaro's

Warranty
•Basic: 3 Years/36,000 Miles
•Drivetrain: 5 Years/60,000 Miles Qualified Fleet Purchases: 5 Years/100,000 Miles
•Corrosion: 3 Years/36,000 Miles Rust-Through 6 Years/100,000 Miles
•Roadside Assistance: 5 Years/60,000 Miles Qualified Fleet Purchases: 5 Years/100,000 Miles
•Maintenance: 2 Years/24,000 Miles 2 visits

[gtron]

sounds like a fun car!

a lot of auto manufactures are stepping up their game and it's becoming difficult to justify the prices some "luxury" brands are attempting to charge. recently someone mentioned a loaded ford explorer putting their X5 to shame in the options category.

it's a good thing though because soon they will have no choice to a) lower their prices or b) make their vehicles even more bad ass. win, win imo.

i've been driving a lot of cars lately and sometimes it's just the label whore in me that keeps me from getting something more affordable with the same or better performance and options.

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

And people are complaining about BMW warrant/maintenance - here is the Camaro's

Warranty
•Basic: 3 Years/36,000 Miles
•Drivetrain: 5 Years/60,000 Miles Qualified Fleet Purchases: 5 Years/100,000 Miles
•Corrosion: 3 Years/36,000 Miles Rust-Through 6 Years/100,000 Miles
•Roadside Assistance: 5 Years/60,000 Miles Qualified Fleet Purchases: 5 Years/100,000 Miles
•Maintenance: 2 Years/24,000 Miles 2 visits

i do not mean to offend but this seems like a desperate post to find something bad about the above. haha op never mentioned anything about warranty and here comes this "this is why you and what you looked at is dumb." type of post. i love forums for that.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by gtron

i do not mean to offend but this seems like a desperate post to find something bad about the above. haha op never mentioned anything about warranty and here comes this "this is why you and what you looked at is dumb." type of post. i love forums for that.

I never make a post out of desperation. My point was that people have been complaining about BMW warranties and changes to maintenance plans, but it is still better than what Chevy offers.

I had no intention of saying anything bad about the Camaro at all. My sister has an SS and loves it.

Why do some people always assume people have negative motives

[EternalVendetta]

Thanks for sharing your impressions! I ruled out the Camaro and Mustang because of their size, and I'm glad that I did - I find the size of my M235i to be perfect for my needs. Also, image issues (if one cares) could still be a thing, as the base Camaros and Mustangs are still quite affordable and look nearly identical to the more exciting SS and GT offerings.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by gtron

sounds like a fun car!

a lot of auto manufactures are stepping up their game and it's becoming difficult to justify the prices some "luxury" brands are attempting to charge. recently someone mentioned a loaded ford explorer putting their X5 to shame in the options category.

it's a good thing though because soon they will have no choice to a) lower their prices or b) make their vehicles even more bad ass. win, win imo.

i've been driving a lot of cars lately and sometimes it's just the label whore in me that keeps me from getting something more affordable with the same or better performance and options.



i do not mean to offend but this seems like a desperate post to find something bad about the above. haha op never mentioned anything about warranty and here comes this "this is why you and what you looked at is dumb." type of post. i love forums for that.

Luxury brands are not attempting to charge higher prices, they are in fact charging higher prices. For those seeking value-based performance then the Camaro will be a good choice. Many are not. You are a self-proclaimed badge whore. As long as there are people who value the attributes that BMW and other "higher end" cars offer, they will continue to sell at a premium. Having a car that is as fast with more features for less money is nothing new. Every year we get a new BMW killer from some manufacturer or another. Luxury car manufacturer do have to stay on their toes and that is definitely good for the car buyer.

[pjohns21]

Originally Posted by gtron

sounds like a fun car!

a lot of auto manufactures are stepping up their game and it's becoming difficult to justify the prices some "luxury" brands are attempting to charge. recently someone mentioned a loaded ford explorer putting their X5 to shame in the options category.

it's a good thing though because soon they will have no choice to a) lower their prices or b) make their vehicles even more bad ass. win, win imo.

i've been driving a lot of cars lately and sometimes it's just the label whore in me that keeps me from getting something more affordable with the same or better performance and options.

i do not mean to offend but this seems like a desperate post to find something bad about the above. haha op never mentioned anything about warranty and here comes this "this is why you and what you looked at is dumb." type of post. i love forums for that.

When was the last time BMW lowered their prices? Truthfully, they are putting a few more options into their standard equipment here and there, but they aren't taking a profitability hit to do so. BMW does what they want, all the way down to ruining the exceptional handling dynamics of the 3 series with the introduction of the f30, in order to increase unit sales. On the other hand, Ford has to make up for it's poor excuse for driving dynamics by adding all of that equipment as standard or at a lower price point than BMW. Not that it is safe to be driving with one hand necessarily... but I could not do so with the 2016 Ford Explorer Limited I had as a rental with 11,000 miles on it. I could barely keep it on the road, there was no on-center steering feel at all. It felt twice the size of GM's yukon xl and suburban models, which feel relatively easy to drive in comparison. Nevertheless, there was little body roll and cornering actually felt well composed (except for the fact the steering wheel was giving you no information at all), but I attribute that to corner braking scrubbing off speed automatically to maintain stability. Not that anyone would cross shop an explorer and X5, but that is precisely because there is no comparison.

[pjohns21]

Here's what I'm talking about...

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/2-series/...pointless.html

"I don't begrudge BMW the robust prices they ask for their cars. They make fantastic automobiles that excite, engage and make motoring fun on many levels. But there's a difference between engineering fat profit margins and just plain cynicism and borderline contempt for your audience. Certainly BMW's not alone here, but at least Porsche, for example, doesn't tease one feature and dangle the other. You pay around $3,200 for the option package that offers Porsche "Entry & Drive.""

[David70]

Originally Posted by pjohns21

Here's what I'm talking about...

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/2-series/...pointless.html

"I don't begrudge BMW the robust prices they ask for their cars. They make fantastic automobiles that excite, engage and make motoring fun on many levels. But there's a difference between engineering fat profit margins and just plain cynicism and borderline contempt for your audience. Certainly BMW's not alone here, but at least Porsche, for example, doesn't tease one feature and dangle the other. You pay around $3,200 for the option package that offers Porsche "Entry & Drive.""

I don't have a problem with how anyone wants to sell their products. In the end I price out the car how I want it and compare it to the competition. Whether I have to buy packages or standalone options really up to them. If I feel like the overall package is a better value from someone else I buy it from them. I bought a used ATS for this exact reason. I compared a new/used ATS to a new/used 3 series and didn't see the value in spending the extra money for the 3 series (or either for new) but I can understand someone else coming to a different conclusion. Obviously BMW thinks there pricing strategy is the one that makes them the most money. Standalone options come with a lot of cost and hassle for the manufacturer.

For the original post, I think the Camaro SS provides a huge performance bang for the buck but I don't see one in my future.

[DDD31]

Hey, hey enough of this civilized conversation!

We're supposed to thump are chests and say how dumb the other person is for even considering one car over the other.

Now let's get this thread where it needs to be: the Camaro is a giant piece of crap and only goes fast in a straight line.

Ahhhh I feel better now, carry on....

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by DDD31

Hey, hey enough of this civilized conversation!

We're supposed to thump are chests and say how dumb the other person is for even considering one car over the other.

Now let's get this thread where it needs to be: the Camaro is a giant piece of crap and only goes fast in a straight line.

Ahhhh I feel better now, carry on....

I'm sure this is just sarcastic, but we'll actually soon find out if the Camaro can only go fast in a straight line.

Motor Trend put out an Instagram post showing the next Head to Head will be the 2016 Camaro 2SS versus BMW. But it won't be against the 2 Series. It will be against the M4. Expect to see the results posted on Feb 24, or possibly Mar 23 (if MT already has another H2H in the can).

Any predictions?

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438207

[1MOREMOD]

M4 gets ass handed to it?

[DDD31]

I second the vote that the M4 gets its ass handed to it unfortunately

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

M4 gets ass handed to it?

It's going to be an understatement. The 2SS is impressive all the way around. Price for features/performance cna't be beat. Personally though I'd like to take the performance and interior and drop it into the Mustang. Would be the perfect american car then.

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by Mike00

It's going to be an understatement. The 2SS is impressive all the way around. Price for features/performance cna't be beat. Personally though I'd like to take the performance and interior and drop it into the Mustang. Would be the perfect american car then.

GT350 should do the trick. Not sure I'd choose the camaro interior over the current stang's though.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by pjohns21

When was the last time BMW lowered their prices? Truthfully, they are putting a few more options into their standard equipment here and there, but they aren't taking a profitability hit to do so. BMW does what they want, all the way down to ruining the exceptional handling dynamics of the 3 series with the introduction of the f30, in order to increase unit sales. On the other hand, Ford has to make up for it's poor excuse for driving dynamics by adding all of that equipment as standard or at a lower price point than BMW. Not that it is safe to be driving with one hand necessarily... but I could not do so with the 2016 Ford Explorer Limited I had as a rental with 11,000 miles on it. I could barely keep it on the road, there was no on-center steering feel at all. It felt twice the size of GM's yukon xl and suburban models, which feel relatively easy to drive in comparison. Nevertheless, there was little body roll and cornering actually felt well composed (except for the fact the steering wheel was giving you no information at all), but I attribute that to corner braking scrubbing off speed automatically to maintain stability. Not that anyone would cross shop an explorer and X5, but that is precisely because there is no comparison.

I love it when people are frustrated with BMW for building cars to sell more units and make a profit. I get that you are upset that the F30 doesn't feel the same as older gen 3ers. You had a choice and went with a 2er. BMW had a choice for you it just didn't happen to have a 3 as the first number in the model. For every one of the F30 haters there are 10 or 20 or 100 people that think the F30 is exceptional. You made the wise choice and bought a model that suits your driving dynamics needs more closely. Good for you. What I cannot understand is those that buy the F30 knowing its different driving dynamics, EPS or otherwise, and then complain about it anyway like BMW the evil corporation has done a bad thing to build cars that more people want to drive.

Its real simple. BMW is a corporation. Corporations are in the business of making money. Some of us more enthusiastic drivers are pissed and think BMW has lost their way, forgetting that BMW still offers model/package/option combinations that will paint a smile on the face of even the most discerning driver.

Getting back to topic, the new Camaro appears to be a great driver's car. BMW will lose a few customers to it and those drivers will be happy until they realize the fuel mileage sucks, you cannot see out of it, and the maintenance plan sucks by comparison to even BMW's revised plan.

[pjohns21]

Originally Posted by David70

I don't have a problem with how anyone wants to sell their products. In the end I price out the car how I want it and compare it to the competition. Whether I have to buy packages or standalone options really up to them. If I feel like the overall package is a better value from someone else I buy it from them. I bought a used ATS for this exact reason. I compared a new/used ATS to a new/used 3 series and didn't see the value in spending the extra money for the 3 series (or either for new) but I can understand someone else coming to a different conclusion. Obviously BMW thinks there pricing strategy is the one that makes them the most money. Standalone options come with a lot of cost and hassle for the manufacturer.

For the original post, I think the Camaro SS provides a huge performance bang for the buck but I don't see one in my future.

The options and packages are what makes the dealerships and BMW the most money. If this were not the case, you would see nothing on the dealership lots except base models. Instead, almost every preconfigured 2 series is at least 40k and every 3 series at least 50k here in the states. BMW base prices are artificially low for marketing purposes- standard features such as power seats were once part of the premium package that easily increased a car's price by several thousand dollars. Thankfully, you can now get the power seats as its own option, and the sport seats are standard in the f22, wooo!

[pjohns21]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I love it when people are frustrated with BMW for building cars to sell more units and make a profit. I get that you are upset that the F30 doesn't feel the same as older gen 3ers. You had a choice and went with a 2er. BMW had a choice for you it just didn't happen to have a 3 as the first number in the model. For every one of the F30 haters there are 10 or 20 or 100 people that think the F30 is exceptional. You made the wise choice and bought a model that suits your driving dynamics needs more closely. Good for you. What I cannot understand is those that buy the F30 knowing its different driving dynamics, EPS or otherwise, and then complain about it anyway like BMW the evil corporation has done a bad thing to build cars that more people want to drive.

Its real simple. BMW is a corporation. Corporations are in the business of making money. Some of us more enthusiastic drivers are pissed and think BMW has lost their way, forgetting that BMW still offers model/package/option combinations that will paint a smile on the face of even the most discerning driver.

Getting back to topic, the new Camaro appears to be a great driver's car. BMW will lose a few customers to it and those drivers will be happy until they realize the fuel mileage sucks, you cannot see out of it, and the maintenance plan sucks by comparison to even BMW's revised plan.

I have a 2013 320i xDrive and it has been a lemon since day one. As much as I complain, I do believe in second chances, lol.

[paliknight]

Nice car but visibility was complete shit IMO.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Getting back to topic, the new Camaro appears to be a great driver's car. BMW will lose a few customers to it and those drivers will be happy until they realize the fuel mileage sucks, you cannot see out of it, and the maintenance plan sucks by comparison to even BMW's revised plan.

Fuel mileage sucks? The Camaro SS is rated at 28 MPG highway and the M4 is 26 MPG. Less than half the displacement, less power and less torque and the M4 somehow can only manage 26 MPG. The fuel economy is downright excellent for a 450+ HP. car.

As for maintenance, I'll gladly do a couple extra $50 oil changes in my driveway if it meant saving $25,000 on the purchase price.

[EternalVendetta]

Originally Posted by wjones14

I'm sure this is just sarcastic, but we'll actually soon find out if the Camaro can only go fast in a straight line.

Motor Trend put out an Instagram post showing the next Head to Head will be the 2016 Camaro 2SS versus BMW. But it won't be against the 2 Series. It will be against the M4. Expect to see the results posted on Feb 24, or possibly Mar 23 (if MT already has another H2H in the can).

Any predictions?

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438207

I think that the Camaro has a good chance, which is pretty awesome when you consider the price differential.

I wish Ford or GM would offer the kind of performance that the Camaro SS and Mustang GT have in a smaller, more mature-looking coupe. I'd have been all over that instead of the M235i that I ended up with (and do quite enjoy).

[RM7]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Nice car but visibility was complete shit IMO.

Posts like this always amuse me.

To fix this, I suggest the Chevy Sonic or Cruz. Great visibility, really gets you "up there".

Otherwise, it's sad you'll never be able to drive an Aston Martin, Jag, Ferrari, Lamborghini, or any low roofline/long front hood type car.

Rear window on my 428GC is almost the exact same size as was on my Camaro SS.

Yes, it doesn't have the best visibility, that's the price you pay for lowering the car, having a low roofline, getting the engine behind the front axle, etc. That's why it's a "sports" car. Compromises.