[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Ummm, no, but I guess you are??

Nope just tired of Tesla folks posting how great FSD and Tesla is, but isn't.

Just move on. You don't plan to buy an i4 so it's all academic.

So are you envious that the i4 is the luxury car that a TM3 aspires to be? Or is it the hands free driving that TM3 won't ever have? Is it the adaptive suspension that Tesla removed from the TM3 due to cost? Is it the adaptive steering? Is it CarPlay, Android Auto or satellite radio? Is it the superior lighting? is it the BMW individual colors?

Or is it that you just have nothing better to do?

Really, why are you here?

[techwhiz1]

This is why Tesla only claims FSD and GM/Cruise has it. BMW and Ford are also the only other companies that have "hands free" ADAS of any kind.

Tesla fan boys can keep screaming about Autopilot and FSD though.

https://www.engadget.com/g-ms-cruise...103542426.html

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

This is why Tesla only claims FSD and GM/Cruise has it. BMW and Ford are also the only other companies that have "hands free" ADAS of any kind.

Tesla fan boys can keep screaming about Autopilot and FSD though.

https://www.engadget.com/g-ms-cruise...103542426.html

I find this all so irrelevant. For me, the idea of buying a car for ADAS is like going to a restaurant where I wouldn't have to be bothered actually eating the food. May it always remain optional, therefore rejectable.

[4monks]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I find this all so irrelevant. For me, the idea of buying a car for ADAS is like going to a restaurant where I wouldn't have to be bothered actually eating the food. May it always remain optional, therefore rejectable.

Would be nice for the car to be optionally named as the designated driver home after a night out.. legally.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by 4monks

Would be nice for the car to optionally named as the designated driver home after a night out.. legally.

Actually, that is a public safety good idea I had not thought about. We don't drink alcohol, so again, hope it remains optional, or downloadable by court order for a DUI conviction.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I find this all so irrelevant. For me, the idea of buying a car for ADAS is like going to a restaurant where I wouldn't have to be bothered actually eating the food. May it always remain optional, therefore rejectable.

Once again, this is for all those folks that have been on this thread talking about the superiority tech of Tesla and how they beat everyone.

Any information in that realm to debunk their flawed thinking works for me.

I'm not buying an i4 M50 for ADAS.

I'm buying it as an equivalent BEV replacement for my 335i that was totaled. My last three cars were 3 series variants.

And on the i4 most of the advanced ADAS is optional.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Once again, this is for all those folks that have been on this thread talking about the superiority tech of Tesla and how they beat everyone.

Any information in that realm to debunk their flawed thinking works for me.

I'm not buying an i4 M50 for ADAS.

I'm buying it as an equivalent BEV replacement for my 335i that was totaled. My last three cars were 3 series variants.

And on the i4 most of the advanced ADAS is optional.

I read that Tesla's FSD4 chip is now outsourced, while Cruise builds its own chip.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

I read that Tesla's FSD4 chip is now outsourced, while Cruise builds its own chip.

Tesla has its own silicon division with a foundry partner.

Cruise is a software/hardware company owned by GM that has a foundry partner

BMW may be using a Continental system but I'm not sure.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Nope just tired of Tesla folks posting…

You don't plan to buy an i4 so it's all academic…

And that really is the gist of it, isn’t it? You don’t want anybody that isn’t a BMW fanboi posting here….

As for me, I appreciate great cars regardless of who makes them. I also have yet to trash anybody’s car whether BMW, Tesla or any other in this thread, which is not something that most of the other posters here can say.

Finally, you have no earthly idea what I might or might not buy. I have a refreshed Tesla model S on order but I may flip that for a profit since I can. I also might look at a used Porsche Taycan, or possibly even an M50 once it comes out. You have no idea so don’t presume anything about me on that front.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

And that really is the gist of it, isn't it? You don't want anybody that isn't a BMW fanboi posting here….

As for me, I appreciate great cars regardless of who makes them. I also have yet to trash anybody's car whether BMW, Tesla or any other in this thread, which is not something that most of the other posters here can say.

Finally, you have no earthly idea what I might or might not buy. I have a refreshed Tesla model S on order but I may flip that for a profit since I can. I also might look at a used Porsche Taycan, or possibly even an M50 once it comes out. You have no idea so don't presume anything about me on that front.

I like how you edit my reply completely out of context.
what I said was:
"Nope just tired of Tesla folks posting how great FSD and Tesla is, but isn't.". Editing my comment to fit your narrative makes you dishonest

I didn't trash anyone's car. I called BS on how great Tesla is. What I did state were the following facts to dispute that Tesla has the most advanced ADAS:

That GM, BMW and Ford all have some level of hands free and redundancy in their sensors. Tesla does not.

That Tesla will never be anything beyond ADAS Level 2 because they don't have redundant sensors for their cameras and this is why your hands must always be on the wheel.

I also stated that they push safety related software updates and don't notify NHTSA. This is/was true and there is at least one open investigation.

I stated they have quality control problems. This is a fact.

I stated that they don't have the same level of fit and finish as my Chevy Bolt. This isn't necessarily objective but, put a Bolt next to a TM3.

I expect you won't buy an i4 by the way you rail against it, it's highly unlikely. I really don't care what you do.

So buy whatever you want, but if you or anyone post propaganda on a thread I happen to participate in, I plan to call BS.

Please stop editing my comments and posting them to fit some narrative. I don't need help expressing my view.

Done engaging.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I like how you edit my reply completely out of context.
what I said was:
"Nope just tired of Tesla folks posting how great FSD and Tesla is, but isn't.". Editing my comment to fit your narrative makes you dishonest

Good eyes.

[jeff2.0t]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

And that really is the gist of it, isn’t it? You don’t want anybody that isn’t a BMW fanboi posting here….

As for me, I appreciate great cars regardless of who makes them. I also have yet to trash anybody’s car whether BMW, Tesla or any other in this thread, which is not something that most of the other posters here can say.

Finally, you have no earthly idea what I might or might not buy. I have a refreshed Tesla model S on order but I may flip that for a profit since I can. I also might look at a used Porsche Taycan, or possibly even an M50 once it comes out. You have no idea so don’t presume anything about me on that front.

We cant presume but what we know is that you have a white model 3 Seriously gtfo and leave us alone, we dont need any pissing contest with a thin can car that loose part in pothole.

[finn123]

Originally Posted by jeff2.0t

We cant presume but what we know is that you have a white model 3 Seriously gtfo and leave us alone, we dont need any pissing contest with a thin can car that loose part in pothole.

Cmon. I also can get a new fully optioned taycan, but chosen fully optioned i4m50 after fully optioned x5 45e. Don’t judge people by the things they have….

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Finally, you have no earthly idea what I might or might not buy.

I honestly don't care.
I don't think anyone in this thread would either.

But trying to preach Tesla in a BMW dedicated forum is a total waste of your time, and our time.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

I honestly don't care.
I don't think anyone in this thread would either.

But trying to preach Tesla in a BMW dedicated forum is a total waste of your time, and our time.

That has been my point.

But more fact is that BMW filed L3 paperwork and here is an article.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/11/05/2...ing-next-year/

BMW will introduce the most advanced autonomous driving features in a 7 series next year. Just so everyone understands this make BMW a leader and will own the thrown. L3 doesn't need the driver to pay attention but does require the drive to be able to take over in a failure or emergency.

So while Tesla requires driver attention and hands on the wheel. BMW currently ships hands off but driver pay attention. Next year it's neither.

Not that I'm interested in such a car.

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I find this all so irrelevant. For me, the idea of buying a car for ADAS is like going to a restaurant where I wouldn't have to be bothered actually eating the food. May it always remain optional, therefore rejectable.

I would have to disagree.
Yes, driving can be enjoyable, like having a gourmet meal at a fancy restaurant.

But when there is traffic jam, I much prefer having ADAS to do the work for me. Like having to line up for 1+ hour for a table in the restaurant, I probably would choose mobile order and take out.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

I would have to disagree.
Yes, driving can be enjoyable, like having a gourmet meal at a fancy restaurant.

But when there is traffic jam, I much prefer having ADAS to do the work for me. Like having to line up for 1+ hour for a table in the restaurant, I probably would choose mobile order and take out.

A few years ago I would have bought a car for the ADAS. That's when I was doing a silicon Valley commute of 1+ hour each way in heavy traffic.

Now my commute is less than a minute it takes to walk to my home office.

While it's not the deciding factor, I'm configuring my M50 with everything.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I like how you edit my reply completely out of context.
what I said was:
"Nope just tired of Tesla folks posting how great FSD and Tesla is, but isn't.". Editing my comment to fit your narrative makes you dishonest
.

No my editing of your comment does not make me dishonest in any way. What I did was eliminate all the redundant BS and cut it down to the gist of it which is that you don’t want anybody saying anything pro-Tesla here.

You are not the forum police and you don’t get to control what people post on the topic.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

No my editing of your comment does not make me dishonest in any way. What I did was eliminate all the redundant BS and cut it down to the gist of it which is that you don’t want anybody saying anything pro-Tesla here.

You are not the forum police and you don’t get to control what people post on the topic.

Editing other's post to remove the context is dishonest through and through, so it is what it is.

Techwhiz did not control what others posted, but presented counter points of Tesla's marketing. So one can elect to engage further to dissect Tesla's(or even BMW's) bullet points, or to disengage.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

A few years ago I would have bought a car for the ADAS. That's when I was doing a silicon Valley commute of 1+ hour each way in heavy traffic.

Now my commute is less than a minute it takes to walk to my home office.

While it's not the deciding factor, I'm configuring my M50 with everything.

My rationale of ordering a Model 3 SR(with my short commutes) was cost savings as #1 factor.

I knew Tesla's ADAS was crap, and build quality was subpar, and battery chemistry is unsafe, and 250-ish range could be problematic, but I am OK to drive a Model 3, safely and rationally, at a purchase price that is compatible to a 3-series.

My projected electric cost for 100k miles with 3 miles/kWh is around $11.7k(effective PG&E rate of $0.35/kWh).

If Tesla can hit 4 miles/kWh, and one can use after-hour supercharging rate of $0.22/kWh, that cost goes to $5.5k.

In contrast, a 32mpg@$4/gallon is around $12.5k AKI 91 cost. @$5/gallon that goes to $15.6k. So I get to save $10k of fuel cost, horray!

Unfortunately Tesla said "no car for u" unless I ponied up extra $20k for a M3P that I did not want, so I bought a G20 330i instead.

Interestingly, G20 330i for now is cheaper to own than Model 3 SR. For one, I saved $2k upfront purchasing cost(the new $7.5k EV credit in 2022 can swing this math). Also, my insurance charges $600 extra a year for Tesla, so my projected 10-year ownership will costs $6k extra.

And supercharger $0.22/kWh rate likely will go up, or home charging @$0.35/kWh P&GE rate can keep spiking up. And honestly I do not have time to drive to supercharger after hours, so I get to suck up, literally, $0.35/kWh(and up and up) at home anyway.

So the cost savings of a Tesla EV, with its leading efficiency of 4 miles/kWh at the expense of battery safety, with its 40-50% range of G20 330i, is really not that much.

I am still hesitant to sign up i4/iX, as the efficiency(with proper battery protection) plus battery chemistry are not that improved. So it looks like I will be with my relatively economical G20 330i for a while.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

My rationale of ordering a Model 3 SR(with my short commutes) was cost savings as #1 factor.

I knew Tesla's ADAS was crap, and build quality was subpar, and battery chemistry is unsafe, and 250-ish range could be problematic, but I am OK to drive a Model 3, safely and rationally, at a purchase price that is compatible to a 3-series.

My projected electric cost for 100k miles with 3 miles/kWh is around $11.7k(effective PG&E rate of $0.35/kWh).

If Tesla can hit 4 miles/kWh, and one can use after-hour supercharging rate of $0.22/kWh, that cost goes to $5.5k.

In contrast, a 32mpg@$4/gallon is around $12.5k AKI 91 cost. @$5/gallon that goes to $15.6k. So I get to save $10k of fuel cost, horray!

Unfortunately Tesla said "no car for u" unless I ponied up extra $20k for a M3P that I did not want, so I bought a G20 330i instead.

Interestingly, G20 330i for now is cheaper to own than Model 3 SR. For one, I saved $2k upfront purchasing cost(the new $7.5k EV credit in 2022 can swing this math). Also, my insurance charges $600 extra a year for Tesla, so my projected 10-year ownership will costs $6k extra.

And supercharger $0.22/kWh rate likely will go up, or home charging @$0.35/kWh P&GE rate can keep spiking up. And honestly I do not have time to drive to supercharger after hours, so I get to suck up, literally, $0.35/kWh(and up and up) at home anyway.

So the cost savings of a Tesla EV, with its leading efficiency of 4 miles/kWh at the expense of battery safety, with its 40-50% range of G20 330i, is really not that much.

I am still hesitant to sign up i4/iX, as the efficiency(with proper battery protection) plus battery chemistry are not that improved. So it looks like I will be with my relatively economical G20 330i for a while.

I tell people all the time to not trade an already owned ICE vehicle for battery or hybrid until you are ready to buy a new car. Trading one when you don't need it isn't green and you don't save money. You end up spending more money.

Clearly your case is even more extreme where even the cost of acquisition was lower.

In my case my E90 was 13 years old and I was planning a new car next year anyway. I was looking at M2 and M3 cars. BMW announced the i4 and I immediately dropped the money on the pre-order.

I'm okay with model year 1 because except for the BEV status the underpinning is the same as the existing 3/4. So really I'm looking at new BEV drivetrain and infotainment. With less moving parts than an ICE I figured; "what the heck".

After I placed the pre-order my E90 got totaled by the insurance company so now I need a car. So I'm looking forward to the M50 with all the options; whatever they are.

[kbsilver]

I've told people for years, reduced total cost is NOT a valid reason to get an electric car.