09-14-2021, 12:37 PM | #23 |
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How do you know the weight is specifically in the platform and not the batteries or body?
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09-14-2021, 01:18 PM | #24 | |
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So what is your question? A platform is chassis + battery + components. i4 is 4800lb, model 3 AWD is 3800lb, both around 300 miles. So if i4 weight is reduced 900-1000lb, my thinking is that its range and operating cost will also be improved. Last edited by bavarianride; 09-14-2021 at 01:29 PM.. |
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09-14-2021, 01:28 PM | #25 |
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The two sequential statements formed my question. You assign an edge based on a unique platform and then cite a weight disadvantage. I’m asking how you know the platform provides that edge, with regard to the weight you mention.
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09-14-2021, 01:30 PM | #26 | |
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And you skipped the next sequential statement: "E.g. 900lbs less can squeeze extra 100 miles of range, and/or 4-5 miles/kWh instead of 3 miles." |
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09-14-2021, 01:44 PM | #27 | |
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The point is that we have many here claiming to be informed about the effects of the platform when, in fact, we/they have no such information at this time. A tear-down or spec from BMW would be needed to know the weight effect of the actual platform. |
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09-14-2021, 02:34 PM | #28 | |
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I don't think the weight is the lack of experience in chassis deign for EV. I think the weight is a compromise since the same same platform serves as a basis for all 3 and 4 series cars. Those cars can be ICE, hybrid or EV. That means you carry some extra weight to make it a universal platform. I could be wrong but: The i8 weighed in at ~3,600 lbs The 2022 740 weighs in at ~4,200 The ICE 440i x-Drive Grand Coupe in at ~4,169 The i4 M50 in at ~4,800. Just for comparison a Fiat 500e weighs ~2,980 and an Abarth weighs ~2,500 pounds. So the i4 M50 is roughly 600lbs heavier than the equivalent ICE car. I think the 500e/Abarth comparison is good because the Abarth is 83% of the 500e. The M440i X-Drive is 86% of the i4 M50. EV's that share ICE platforms look to be heavy; even across manufacturers. I personally don't care really. I have never looked at the curb weight on a car and said "Ooh, that looks heavy, I'm not buying that". Those that don't want the i4 M50 don't have to buy it. BMW doesn't seem to have an issue selling it or the iX since the lead times are now pushed into the second half of 2022 for all ix and i4 variants. There might be some overlap of buyers between the TM3 and the i4; but my guess is that there are BMW folks like me that wouldn't touch a TM3. I also did some research and Tesla dumped the Raven suspension from the Model 3 due to cost. I just want BMW to let me order mine.
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Last edited by techwhiz1; 09-14-2021 at 02:44 PM.. |
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09-14-2021, 03:03 PM | #29 | |
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And it looks like i4 should be the hybrid platform. My comment of 900lb extra is unrelated to how weights go to which parts, but how dedicated EV platform hits that weight savings, such that customers can materially get extra range, and/or save fuel(electricity) cost. "Retrofitting: Manufacturers modify existing internal combustion architecture to build an electric car. Hybrid Platforms: Many modern car architectures have been designed to pair with modular combustion, hybrid, and pure electric powertrains. Dedicated EV Platforms: Most manufacturers are (or will be) moving to dedicated EV platforms over the next decade. These are basically skateboards consisting of wheels and a battery pack, and offer maximum design flexibility. https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/g358...cle-platforms/ |
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09-14-2021, 03:14 PM | #30 | |
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https://medium.com/@martinwelzl/actu...e-d432d85f366e |
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09-14-2021, 04:12 PM | #31 | |
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In any event, whether the weight result of the i4 is due to the actual platform and batteries individually or collectively, we do not know at this time. Everything up to now is pure speculation, perhaps the inevitable product of forums. Once Sandy Munro gets his hands on one to take apart, we will see from where in the vehicle the weight comes versus any comparable vehicles. But, more importantly for me, will be what is the driving experience and is the range sufficient for my needs, not whether is it best-in-class.
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09-14-2021, 04:29 PM | #32 |
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It's not speculation that BMW's approach has been to make a platform that can take multiple powertrains.
It's also not speculation that failing to optimize any platform for its powertrain will result in compromises of many types. It's also not speculation that BMW's head brass squandered the technological lead BMW had when the i3 was introduced, even though the i3 platform was/is advanced, if too expensive for wider-market success: https://www.latimes.com/business/la-...706-story.html BMW has ample resources to engineer itself back to parity with best-in-class with regards to EV platforms, and they will, eventually. |
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09-14-2021, 04:37 PM | #33 | |
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The point remains that no one here can identify the numerical or even relative weight contribution of the various systems in the i4. No one here can point by part number on the BOM where a specific compromise was made yet. All the self-appointed experts are simply guessing and making argumentative and conclusory statements...and a first year law student would know the value of those.
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09-14-2021, 05:10 PM | #34 | |
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09-14-2021, 05:28 PM | #35 | |
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So discussion of any type that doesn't involve part numbers or BOMs is invalid. /forums. (cue eyeroll) |
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09-14-2021, 05:30 PM | #36 |
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09-14-2021, 05:38 PM | #37 |
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Nope. Still don’t get it. Conclusions and argumentation devoid of facts are of no substance. Come with facts to support opinions and be taken seriously. As of now, no one knows the facts of how/why the car weighs what it does. Flapping wings to blame the platform without data is useless. The OP’s question that started the thread remains unanswered and unanswerable until we have data.
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09-14-2021, 05:46 PM | #38 |
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09-14-2021, 05:50 PM | #39 |
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Again, not true. Discussion is fine. I certainly engage in it. If someone wants to share their philosophical, moral, or religious objection to a versatile platform strategy, let's have at it. If we have an actual automotive body engineer here, let's have their expert input. But, there are posts on this thread that presume to know the answer to the OP's question of weight and assign it to "bad design" or a non-dedicated platform. Without facts to support that supposition, that claim is meaningless and misleading and, until supportable, invalid. That is what I find objectionable.
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09-14-2021, 05:52 PM | #40 |
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What facts? Who has the unladen weight of the platform that several here accuse as the culprit? We are discussing weight. If the answer is an opinion and not a number, it's not relevant.
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09-14-2021, 06:25 PM | #41 | |
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Focusing the discussion towards weights of floorpan, cowl, front rails, etc. per your definition of platform appears to be missing the point, namely, that hefty 4800lb likely does not help fuel efficiency. E.g. BMW publishes 300 miles of range for 81.5kWh(usable), or 3.65 miles/kWh. The i3@3000lb with 30kWh(usable) goes 150 miles, or 5 miles/kWh. Tesla Model 3 is around 4 miles/KWh, or 26kWh/100 miles per EPA. So yes, BMW has a dedicated EV platform (i3 with CFRP) that are 20-25% more efficient than Model 3, while BMW's hybrid platform(e.g. i4 ) is not based on published numbers. |
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09-14-2021, 06:40 PM | #42 | |
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09-14-2021, 07:02 PM | #43 | |
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That is my open-source spec for EV engineers to hit. |
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09-14-2021, 07:11 PM | #44 | |
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