[spool twice]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

Maybe BMW underestimates the range just like they underestimate horsepower? That would be great. Won't be long before there's a range review in eco pro mode.

I would lean towards that, but more because I have one on order and I do want it to exceed my expectations I personally think BMW is underrating the HP/TQ of this car, and MPG, just like on its ICE cars.

The EPA range is normally just an average number, so if you mostly drive in the city, EV's thrive where ICE's do not here (unless it's a hybrid or PHEV).

On the WLTP cycle in mild weather ( https://ev-database.org/car/1519/BMW-i4-M50 ) it lists city driving as 645km, highway driving as 425km, so the range is 264 - 401 miles

Check out this simulator from a member on ******'s forum, it's pretty awesome and takes multiple factors into consideration:

https://www.******.com/threads/%F0%9...e-10#post-8861

[doccyber]

This is not acceptable. The range is too small. I expected more out of BMW. Lucid is is claiming 500 miles plus. I will totally have range anxiety with i4.

[alep85]

Originally Posted by doccyber

This is not acceptable. The range is too small. I expected more out of BMW. Lucid is is claiming 500 miles plus. I will totally have range anxiety with i4.

Different class of cars. Lucid is targeting the Model S and Benz EQS.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by alep85

Different class of cars. Lucid is targeting the Model S and Benz EQS.

Not to me mention it's a car that's almost $100,000 more than an i4

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by patgrey16

Been on here for 10 years- different names bro, settle down

You hiding from a ban or something? Maybe you got a bad rap on one of those other IDs?

[kbsilver]

OR just stick with 19" wheels and the difference between the M50 and edrive40 is only like 18 miles. 20" wheels is falling into what my daughter calls 'fashion over function'.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by spool twice

Not to me mention it's a car that's almost $100,000 more than an i4

The lucid air pure (Base model) starts at 77k, not too far from the i4 M50 that starts at 65k. Options may spread them, but its not 100k difference unless you compare the top end Lucid model

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

The lucid air pure (Base model) starts at 77k, not too far from the i4 M50 that starts at 65k. Options may spread them, but its not 100k difference unless you compare the top end Lucid model

Other than being EVs, these are such different cars!

Trunk vs liftgate
Lucid is 196" x 76"
i4 is 188" x 73"

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

The lucid air pure (Base model) starts at 77k, not too far from the i4 M50 that starts at 65k. Options may spread them, but its not 100k difference unless you compare the top end Lucid model

This is true. The 77k RWD model has a estimated 406 mile range, but the i4 eDrive40 RWD starts at 55k and 301 mile range on the EPA cycle. They have larger batteries than the i4, but in terms of miles per kWh, the Lucid is more efficient than the i4 by about 1 mile per kWh consumed.

In the WLTP cycle, the differences in combined range is 47miles between the two models, with half of that being battery size factors and the other half simply because the Lucid Air Pure is a dedicated platform.

In its class, the i4 seems competitive in EPA and WLTP cycles for both models.

[Quadruple VANOS]

By my calculations I see this as:

270 miles range… minus 50 mile emergency reserve = 220 miles. Then my assumed safe range (compensating for weather; spirited driving; traffic; etc.) is 50% of the remaining mileage = safe to assume a real-world 110 miles of carefree range between charges. Plenty for one day of driving most of my days. Perhaps two light days of driving for me, but that's about it.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by spool twice

traffic bodes well for an EV, the more traffic, the better for range.

Fake news.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Fake news.

What do you mean? Explain how traffic isn't good for EV's?

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by spool twice

What do you mean? Explain how traffic isn't good for EV's?

Your assumption that there's always a meaningful amount of regenerative braking happening in traffic is flawed.

[walmark]

As others said, what about "spirited" driving??

Sure, if we're pitting the M50 against Leaf or Bolt, I will believe the 270 - 300 mile range.
But BMW marketing is pitting it against the M3. In that case I'd be curious what is the range on the track, where every corner exit is 100% power. 50 miles? Will the battery overheat after a number of hard accelerations? Will the power drop along with the SoC?

My point is: it is stupid for BMW to place this car in the same category as the M cars. 0-60 might be better (not sure if it is though), but if you're talking about cars designed to be pushed all day on the track, I don't think this one qualifies.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Your assumption that there's always a meaningful amount of regenerative braking happening in traffic is flawed.

an EV uses very little energy at stop, and also slower speeds = better range simply because there is less power needed to accelerate to the specific speed and maintain that specified speed, and in addition to regen braking if you need to slow down in traffic.

City cycles result in higher range on an EV vs highway cycles. It's opposite of an ICE where highway cycles are higher in results than City cycles.

The WLTP rates the city cycle at 645km (401 miles) and a highway cycle at 425km (264 miles)

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by walmark

As others said, what about "spirited" driving??

Sure, if we're pitting the M50 against Leaf or Bolt, I will believe the 270 - 300 mile range.
But BMW marketing is pitting it against the M3. In that case I'd be curious what is the range on the track, where every corner exit is 100% power. 50 miles? Will the battery overheat after a number of hard accelerations? Will the power drop along with the SoC?

My point is: it is stupid for BMW to place this car in the same category as the M cars. 0-60 might be better (not sure if it is though), but if you're talking about cars designed to be pushed all day on the track, I don't think this one qualifies.

I can't answer the rest, but I can say that according to video's posted, the car seems to be consistent in acceleration even at 39% SOC (it matches my stock M4cs from a roll)

Still mid 3's at 39%

Still strong power up top even at 57% SOC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

If you are going all out, it takes about 16 seconds using 400kW to get to the 140mph top speed, and then the maintain 140mph, its approximately 124kW on its 80.3kWh battery.

I can try to do the math to see what the actual range is, may take a bit.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by spool twice

an EV uses very little energy at stop, and also slower speeds = better range simply because there is less power needed to accelerate to the specific speed and maintain that specified speed, and in addition to regen braking if you need to slow down in traffic.

City cycles result in higher range on an EV vs highway cycles. It's opposite of an ICE where highway cycles are higher in results than City cycles.

The WLTP rates the city cycle at 645km (401 miles) and a highway cycle at 425km (264 miles)

You seem to be in a comparison between how an EV does in traffic compared to an ICE. That's not what we're taking about here. I'm saying that being in traffic will reduce the range of an EV (just like an ICE)… if only because it takes more time to travel over a distance than if you were traveling efficiently. Because I drive all day, it's completely normal for me to spend an additional 2-3 hours in traffic in a day compared to if the roads were clear. Sometimes I'm barely moving for a considerable amount of time (thinking about Manhattan traffic here). During that time you're heating/cooling the car and using accessories.

I'm not criticizing EVs here. I'm only speaking to how I personally would calculate the real-world usable range before worrying. I'd feel very confident I could travel 110 miles in a day in an i4 M50 before even thinking about my state of charge. Conversely, I definitely wouldn't feel as confident I could rely on getting 220 miles of range. Maybe I could, but I wouldn't personally count on it. Of course this is all theoretical and using the vehicle over time would prove what range I could actually predict for my usage patterns.

[spool twice]

Anytime the car is on would use range, yes (never said it didn't...).

What I'm saying is that traffic bodes will for EV's with range. You'll see the highest range in stop/go city traffic vs constant speeds/highway driving. You use very little during a stop because you aren't consuming anything with the motors. In other words, EV's thrive in slower traffic and slower speeds.

The heating/cooling elements are actually rather efficient on the i4; it uses a heat pump, and the A/C is an electric compressor. The A/C drops range by about 4-5 %, but this is a constant and not speed dependent. (Edit: it's closer to 2% on an EV)

Stop/go traffic scenario:

let's just say you are in stop/go traffic. It takes about 284 watts to accelerate to 10mph (at full throttle mind you...), and according to BMW's press release, 10mph (or 16.1 kph) is approxing 10kw of regen.

Let's say using regen would take 2 seconds to the car down from 10mph to a complete stop. That would recoup about .005, or 5 watts of power.

At 271 watts, the car has about 80,029 watts of battery remaining. You used about .03% of the battery to accelerate at full throttle to 10mph and use regen braking to bring it back to a standstill. You can literally do that alittle over 40,000 times before you use up the entire range.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

That's the cat I ordered.

Makes the Lucid Air look attractive.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by spool twice

Anytime the car is on would use range, yes (never said it didn't...).

What I'm saying is that traffic bodes will for EV's with range. You'll see the highest range in stop/go city traffic vs constant speeds/highway driving. You use very little during a stop because you aren't consuming anything with the motors. In other words, EV's thrive in slower traffic and slower speeds.

The heating/cooling elements are actually rather efficient on the i4; it uses a heat pump, and the A/C is an electric compressor. The A/C drops range by about 4-5 %, but this is a constant and not speed dependent. (Edit: it's closer to 2% on an EV)

Stop/go traffic scenario:

let's just say you are in stop/go traffic. It takes about 284 watts to accelerate to 10mph (at full throttle mind you...), and according to BMW's press release, 10mph (or 16.1 kph) is approxing 10kw of regen.

Let's say using regen would take 2 seconds to the car down from 10mph to a complete stop. That would recoup about .005, or 5 watts of power.

At 271 watts, the car has about 80,029 watts of battery remaining. You used about .03% of the battery to accelerate at full throttle to 10mph and use regen braking to bring it back to a standstill. You can literally do that alittle over 40,000 times before you use up the entire range.

Simply put; traffic eats up range regardless of the method of propulsion.
The way you describe it, it's almost like an EV's range is increasing because of traffic! lol. Maybe regenerate braking is helping to minimize the impact, but traffic is still a net negative in regards to range.

[spool twice]

Range is at its highest in traffic / city situations.

It's literally published in every Google search you do...

Range CAN increase because of traffic, if you are at highway speeds and come to a sudden stop/crawl situation, it increases range. Top Gear even mentions this in their EQS range test when they hit stop/go/crawl on their highway drive.

That's all I'm saying. City/traffic is not a disadvantage to BEVs, it's actually one of the best case scenarios for it, it's not fake news.

[soheil]

Originally Posted by JustChris

270 miles hmm that's a compromise but good if it has risen.

Is it like Tesla where they recommend charging from 20-80% normally or different battery type as that's about 160 then.

As an i3 driver (and I can only guess i4 and iX are the same) BMW has one of the if not the best battery management systems in any EV, for sure better than TSLA. Charging the i3 doesn't have any guidelines, you can just charge it up to the full 100%! In fact BMW itself recommends leaving the fully charged car still plugged in! The Battery Management System itself takes care of all the charging time and current and makes sure to have the least impact on battery life. I even read somewhere that the system artificially limits the maximum capacity so in reality even if it reaches 100% it is not actually the full capacity of the battery. All of this is so that the driver doesn't have to worry and think about any percentages