[spool twice]

Originally Posted by Staszek

This is what I am interested in.

The M3P has great range in perfect conditions, my neighbor has one and said he gets nowhere near the advertised range, especially in the winter.

I am curious like most things BMW does with their posted numbers that yes it may be slightly lower than Tesla but its a real number that wont cut in half when the winter hits.

I have seen a few postings around the M3P lossing perfomance as the battery drains where the i4 doesnt lose much at all, which leads me to believe that their battery management is much better.

There is a difference between a posted number and an actual usable number, looking forward to seeing more real-world testing done.

That being said I saw this on BMWUSA site today, with the aero 19" wheels in all season the range is 370 on the M50, that seems like a very big jump, is that a misprint? I haven't seen that before.

I'm going to have to side with BMW being conservative due to both the Mini Cooper EV and the BMW iX3 already exceeding expectations. Based on i4 M50 acceleration video's, the performance doesn't "appear" to decrease based on SoC.

Here the iX3 was able to achieve 275 miles at 56mph, has a higher .cd of drag and frontal area than either i4 models, and has a smaller 74kWh usable battery range.

The WLTP rates it at up to 285 miles for that car, and the WLTP is normally 25-35% higher in ratings than our EPA cycle. In "theory" the car would have exceeded EPA ranges by 61 - 90 miles. https://insideevs.com/news/502869/bm...rn-range-test/

Here the Mini Cooper EV exceeded its EPA range by 36.5% on Edmunds test (60% city/40% highway) https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/ele...s-edmunds.html

[footie]

Last than 200 miles because you are speccing the rims the car should come with in the first place isn’t good. Might need to rethink my purchase, no for the fact I need more but future EVs will destroy this.

[soheil]

Originally Posted by Staszek

The M3P has great range in perfect conditions, my neighbor has one and said he gets nowhere near the advertised range, especially in the winter.

It might very well be the case that the drop in range is not as severe in BMWs as in Teslas in winters, but unfortunately I live in Southern California and the word winter is completely unknown to me

[DBV1]

Really wish the range was over 400 miles. Disappointing. I am a Bimmer fanboy, that just purchased the Tesla Model S LR with 19’s, because the range was over 400.

Would be in a BMW right away if they could have come close to that. They need to improve quickly as this range won’t cut for a lot of the US.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by soheil

It might very well be the case that the drop in range is not as severe in BMWs as in Teslas in winters, but unfortunately I live in Southern California and the word winter is completely unknown to me

Can't wait to see real world range. It's challenging to judge compared to Tesla's where the range they list aren't even reachable and more marketing hype, even reported by owners on their forums.

[Ken7]

Originally Posted by DBV1

Really wish the range was over 400 miles. Disappointing. I am a Bimmer fanboy, that just purchased the Tesla Model S LR with 19’s, because the range was over 400.

Would be in a BMW right away if they could have come close to that. They need to improve quickly as this range won’t cut for a lot of the US.

Yes, but what’s the actual range you’re experiencing with the Tesla? Tesla is notorious for an overly optimistic range estimate. My 2017 MS never got the range I was led to expect. The German EVs often exceed their estimates.

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by DBV1

Really wish the range was over 400 miles. Disappointing. I am a Bimmer fanboy, that just purchased the Tesla Model S LR with 19’s, because the range was over 400.
Would be in a BMW right away if they could have come close to that. They need to improve quickly as this range won’t cut for a lot of the US.

But do you know Elon overstates the range for his cars, while BMW traditionally is much more conservative in its specification?
Tesla also knows how to play the rules of EPA ratings to get bigger numbers.
The real world difference may be much less than you think.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by Ken7

Yes, but what’s the actual range you’re experiencing with the Tesla? Tesla is notorious for an overly optimistic range estimate. My 2017 MS never got the range I was led to expect. The German EVs often exceed their estimates.

60% of it, but at least the world knows it's 400 miles...

...and that's all that matters

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Ken7

Yes, but what's the actual range you're experiencing with the Tesla? Tesla is notorious for an overly optimistic range estimate. My 2017 MS never got the range I was led to expect. The German EVs often exceed their estimates.

Erm, wrong. Tesla is no worse than the Germans at range accuracy. Watch this and many more comparison tests. (Or don't watch it if buying German as it seems they just don't get the EV concept. Putting a bigger heavier battery in to compensate for low efficiency and range is not the answer.)

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Erm, wrong. Tesla is no worse than the Germans at range accuracy. Watch this and many more comparison tests. (Or don't watch it if buying German as it seems they just don't get the EV concept. Putting a bigger heavier battery in to compensate for low efficiency and range is not the answer.)

I believe we are comparing EPA to real world, not WLTP to real world. German cars have exceeded their EPA ratings, Tesla has not, however some have come really close to it such as the Model 3 Dual Motor.

Interestingly though, some Tesla cars have a lower WLTP range than EPA range

Side note, love Matt Watson reviews.

[Ken7]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Erm, wrong. Tesla is no worse than the Germans at range accuracy. Watch this and many more comparison tests. (Or don't watch it if buying German as it seems they just don't get the EV concept. Putting a bigger heavier battery in to compensate for low efficiency and range is not the answer.)

Actually I’ve owned 3 EVs, the Tesla MS, the Jaguar I-Pace and my current car, the Audi e-Tron. Relative to their EPA ratings, in terms of coming closest to their ratings, this has been my experience from best to worst:

1. Audi e-Tron
2. Jaguar I-Pace
3. Tesla MS

So this my actual ownership experience, not one based on a test video.

Now granted the e-Tron’s range still sucks, but it’s come closest to matching its EPA rating.

[NISFAN]

Seems most 'first drive' videos have had some range censorship deal going on as non of them delve into it. But this French video was released in the last day. He is clearly stating you won't get anywhere near the 510 km range that BMW claims, more like 300-330km. That's 186-205 miles if you're careful.

The above is on a 100% charge. Normally you shouldn't be charging NMC batteries to 100% for daily use, it kills them. Hopefully BMW have imposed battery limits to ensure you can charge to "100%"daily. I.e. 100% Indicated charge = 80% real charge. That's the only way to explain it's dismal range.

Test car had the more economical wheels but was a French winter test (+7 Celsius shown on the display), so you'd expect more range in summer.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Ken7

Actually I've owned 3 EVs, the Tesla MS, the Jaguar I-Pace and my current car, the Audi e-Tron. Relative to their EPA ratings, in terms of coming closest to their ratings, this has been my experience from best to worst:

1. Audi e-Tron
2. Jaguar I-Pace
3. Tesla MS

So this my actual ownership experience, not one based on a test video.

Now granted the e-Tron's range still sucks, but it's come closest to matching its EPA rating.

Do you have empirical data to show by how much though?

An explanation for your experience is also this……weather (cabin heating/ cooling, wipers, lights, temperature) affects the general range over the base maximum (WLTP / EPA). A more efficient EV will therefore be affected more by these parasitic losses than less efficient example, because the power used by these will be fairly consistent.

For example an Audi E-tron running at 350w/mile plus let's say 100w/mile HVAC is going to perform closer to the posted figures than the Tesla Model 3 that runs a more efficient 250w/mile plus the same 100w/mile HVAC load. Plus 22% consumption for the e-Tron vs plus 28% for the model 3.

[Ken7]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Do you have empirical data to show by how much though?

An explanation for your experience is also this……weather (cabin heating/ cooling, wipers, lights, temperature) affects the general range over the base maximum (WLTP / EPA). A more efficient EV will therefore be affected more by these parasitic losses than less efficient example, because the power used by these will be fairly consistent.

For example an Audi E-tron running at 350w/mile plus let's say 100w/mile HVAC is going to perform closer to the posted figures than the Tesla Model 3 that runs a more efficient 250w/mile plus the same 100w/mile HVAC load. Plus 22% consumption for the e-Tron vs plus 28% for the model 3.

Well to start, I specifically said EPA ratings. Second, I drive the same way, over the same routes, with the same cabin temperatures depending on season, and have driven through all seasons with all cars. So there's no significant bias to my driving habits from one car to the other.

It's also a known fact that certain German cars do outperform their EPA ratings. You must have heard about the Taycan greatly outperforming its EPA ratings.

[Ken7]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Seems most 'first drive' videos have had some range censorship deal going on as non of them delve into it. But this French video was released in the last day. He is clearly stating you won't get anywhere near the 510 km range that BMW claims, more like 300-330km. That's 186-205 miles if you're careful.

The above is on a 100% charge. Normally you shouldn't be charging NMC batteries to 100% for daily use, it kills them. Hopefully BMW have imposed battery limits to ensure you can charge to "100%"daily. I.e. 100% Indicated charge = 80% real charge. That's the only way to explain it's dismal range.

Test car had the more economical wheels but was a French winter test (+7 Celsius shown on the display), so you'd expect more range in summer.

BMW, like almost all manufacturers outside of Tesla, protect their very top and bottom of the battery's capacity. So 100% is not 100% on the BMW or most EVs for that matter. Likewise 0% is not 0%, there is again a protected amount of charge left so as not to run the battery down to a true 0%.

Are you reserving an i4?

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by DBV1

Really wish the range was over 400 miles. Disappointing. I am a Bimmer fanboy, that just purchased the Tesla Model S LR with 19’s, because the range was over 400.

Would be in a BMW right away if they could have come close to that. They need to improve quickly as this range won’t cut for a lot of the US.

For the i4 range to be "over 400 miles" requires a battery bigger than 83.9 kWh, which the Tesla Model S 100 kWh battery is.

[Johnnycakes09]

Originally Posted by Ken7

BMW, like almost all manufacturers outside of Tesla, protect their very top and bottom of the battery's capacity. So 100% is not 100% on the BMW or most EVs for that matter. Likewise 0% is not 0%, there is again a protected amount of charge left so as not to run the battery down to a true 0%.

Are you reserving an i4?

100% true. I have the X5 45e and despite having the same battery as Europe, the US range is only about 35 while Europe can get 50-55. Some say it’s because the US battery warranty is for 8 years. So they limit capacity to pretty much guarantee no issues for 8 years. So that tells me there’s a lot of residual left when thinking about charge cycles. We’re likely always charging to 80% capacity even though the display shows 100. Having said that, BMW’s range statements have seemed to be pretty spot on for me. This is my 3rd electric car having 2 previous i3s. What BMW states has been pretty accurate, I think.

On another note, I know there are modules out there to basically extend your range. The questionable part is how it affects warranty. Not something I’m willing to experiment with. But I know there is an extender option for my X5 that will get me to Euro values OR open it up to full capacity which is supposedly around 70 miles.

[jayp98]

Originally Posted by Staszek

This is what I am interested in.

The M3P has great range in perfect conditions, my neighbor has one and said he gets nowhere near the advertised range, especially in the winter.

I am curious like most things BMW does with their posted numbers that yes it may be slightly lower than Tesla but its a real number that wont cut in half when the winter hits.

I have seen a few postings around the M3P lossing perfomance as the battery drains where the i4 doesnt lose much at all, which leads me to believe that their battery management is much better.

There is a difference between a posted number and an actual usable number, looking forward to seeing more real-world testing done.

That being said I saw this on BMWUSA site today, with the aero 19" wheels in all season the range is 370 on the M50, that seems like a very big jump, is that a misprint? I haven't seen that before.

I noticed this too. They have since fixed it to be the same but the aero wheels must have some benefit to the range right? Haven't seen any reviews with the aero wheels so am interested to find out more on if they are worth getting and if there is any increase in range by using them.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by jayp98

I noticed this too. They have since fixed it to be the same but the aero wheels must have some benefit to the range right? Haven't seen any reviews with the aero wheels so am interested to find out more on if they are worth getting and if there is any increase in range by using them.

FWIW, Tesla model 3 tests show between 1-2% range loss if you remove the aero covers. That's mainly conducted on longer runs where it has the most effect. So hardly noticeable to most use profiles.

[Ken7]

But what ever a given M3's range is, you have to put up with sub-par QC, poor quality materials, a barren interior that looks way too 'economy car', software glitches and OTA updates that break as many things as they fixed. Been there done that, no more. The panel gaps shown in some of the owner's videos borders on criminal. QC is not much different than it was years ago.

Once you've driven a German EV or an EV like the Jaguar I-Pace, the difference in the quality of construction between the Teslas and these cars becomes almost comical. There's a solidity to the construction that Tesla can't begin to understand.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Ken7

But what ever a given M3's range is, you have to put up with sub-par QC, poor quality materials, a barren interior that looks way too 'economy car', software glitches and OTA updates that break as many things as they fixed. Been there done that, no more. The panel gaps shown in some of the owner's videos borders on criminal. QC is not much different than it was years ago.

Once you've driven a German EV or an EV like the Jaguar I-Pace, the difference in the quality of construction between the Teslas and these cars becomes almost comical. There's a solidity to the construction that Tesla can't begin to understand.

I was at the dealer today to pick up some weatherstrip clips for my X5.

They had some 4 Grand Coupes there. I sat in them. Looked at the fit and finish and couldn't find any issues. But that's what I expect and will expect for the i4.

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I was at the dealer today to pick up some weatherstrip clips for my X5.

They had some 4 Grand Coupes there. I sat in them. Looked at the fit and finish and couldn't find any issues. But that's what I expect and will expect for the i4.

Same here… actually saw a M440i in my color spec, too. Was happy with my decision.