[JustChris]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

So I looked at the specs of the i4 e40 and M50.

So the weight difference between the two is 338lbs or about 7.2%. That is 4680 vs 5018. So adding the second motor and additional standard equipment adds about 338lbs.

The change from 18" to 19" wheels is an impact on e40 range. 301 down to 282 or about 6.3% The section width of the tires increased by about 8.7%.

But for 7.2% increase in weight only causes a 4.25% difference in range 282 vs 270. This assumes both on the 19" wheels.

The 20" wheels have a dramatic effect on range 15.9% decrease 270 vs 227. Now the rotational mass of the wheels have some effect but it's got to be the amount of rubber in contact with the road.

The section width on the 19" tires is 9.8" on the front and 10.2" in the rear. For the 20" tires the section width is 10.2" for the front and 11.4" for the rear.

This amounts to an increase of total section width of about 8% but about a 16% decrease in distance.

If we just assumed section width was linear in proportion to mileage lost we would expect about an 11% reduction in range. But we know it's not linear and the size of the contact patch is not just the section width.

Even on an ICE car, fat.and sticky tires will reduce gas mileage.

I guess I said all that to say, if mileage is important, those 20" wheels will cost. The sweet spot seems to be the 19" wheel/tire combo.

If the range is becomes an issue for me, I guess a 20" wheel with a narrower wheel/tire combo with the correct offset will get some mileage back. I ordered.my car with the 20" wheels.

There's a version with a published range on 227 miles? In 2022? Wow. In winter and if not charging to max that's going to be annoying.

[DBV1]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

But do you know Elon overstates the range for his cars, while BMW traditionally is much more conservative in its specification?
Tesla also knows how to play the rules of EPA ratings to get bigger numbers.
The real world difference may be much less than you think.

I own a 2021 Model S LR refresh with 19 tires and so far the range is very close to what Tesla/EPA said it would be. So, maybe Tesla has improved it? This is my first EV and thought I would be disappointed in the range and have not been.

I am a BMW fanboy, always owning 5 Series and currently still own a 18 X5d. Still like many things about BMW and still would prefer to buy BMW, but there are many things that Tesla does well.

At least for me, the BMW i4 has to really overachieve to get me to buy it, as I travel too much and at least in the US, Tesla’s supercharging network is far superior to anything else and the range in my model S is far above the I4.

[footie]

Does anyone else think this consistent push for bigger battery to extend the range isn’t the answer needed. What we really need is charging speed to increase hugely so time spent topping up the battery is greatly reduced.

Take the iX50, it’s 111KW battery will take over 15 hours to fully charge from a household wall unit, is that really ideal.

What’s really needed it batteries to be more efficient and lighter both of which will benefit range and greatly increase the charging capability of the network, those are the things that will drive everyone to see electric as a proper alternative.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by footie

Does anyone else think this consistent push for bigger battery to extend the range isn’t the answer needed. What we really need is charging speed to increase hugely so time spent topping up the battery is greatly reduced.

Take the iX50, it’s 111KW battery will take over 15 hours to fully charge from a household wall unit, is that really ideal.

What’s really needed it batteries to be more efficient and lighter both of which will benefit range and greatly increase the charging capability of the network, those are the things that will drive everyone to see electric as a proper alternative.

I agree, unless batteries get lighter we have really reached a limit.

The i4 has 1200lbs of battery and battery support structure.

That's a lot. when compared to an ICE car and the energy contained in 18 gallons of petrol exceeds the energy stored in that battery.

Don't get me wrong, I'm buying an M50 but battery technology needs to improve by 100% so that 1200lbs becomes 600lbs and increases the range just by having less mass to move.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by footie

Does anyone else think this consistent push for bigger battery to extend the range isn’t the answer needed. What we really need is charging speed to increase hugely so time spent topping up the battery is greatly reduced.

Take the iX50, it’s 111KW battery will take over 15 hours to fully charge from a household wall unit, is that really ideal...

Most EV owners charge at home overnight, so the charging speed in that instance isn't as critical.

Where the charge speed matters more is long-distance driving, or if you can't charge at home.

If you haven't owned an EV, it takes a while to wrap your head around charging up every night, replenishing only what you used that day. You don't run the battery down near empty and then refill it. It's the opposite of what we've done up to now, because we didn't have gas pumps at our houses.

With an EV, every homeowner already has the fuel the car needs available.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

With an EV, every homeowner already has the fuel the car needs available.

Many around here aka Tesla home turf do not have home charging and do lineup and wait at supercharger afterhours to get the best rates, so reduced charge time definitely is welcomed by many.

[footie]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Most EV owners charge at home overnight, so the charging speed in that instance isn't as critical.

Where the charge speed matters more is long-distance driving, or if you can't charge at home.

If you haven't owned an EV, it takes a while to wrap your head around charging up every night, replenishing only what you used that day. You don't run the battery down near empty and then refill it. It's the opposite of what we've done up to now, because we didn't have gas pumps at our houses.

With an EV, every homeowner already has the fuel the car needs available.

Missing the point I was making, the bigger the battery the long it takes to charge at home. With the iX50 it would take 15 hr to charge fully with a wall unit, that’s more than most people can give.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by footie

Missing the point I was making, the bigger the battery the long it takes to charge at home. With the iX50 it would take 15 hr to charge fully with a wall unit, that's more than most people can give.

Actually on a 240/40 it would take about 9 hours.
I have a L2 charger at my house.

Normally you won't drain the battery to empty.
My daughter typically runs her battery down on her Bolt between 30-50% in a day.

So figure if that's a typical driving pattern you don't need to even charge all night.

Also the i4 is no different than any other long range electric. L2 charger at home means you charge overnight.

A 110/20 circuit will take you days.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by footie

Missing the point I was making, the bigger the battery the long it takes to charge at home. With the iX50 it would take 15 hr to charge fully with a wall unit, that’s more than most people can give.

Unless you drive more than about 250 miles every day and your car is parked less than 8 hours every day, your point is moot.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Where the charge speed matters more is long-distance driving, or if you can't charge at home...

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Many around here…do not have home charging…so reduced charge time definitely is welcomed by many.

Not sure why you felt the need to restate what I’d already written, but okay…

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

Maybe BMW underestimates the range just like they underestimate horsepower? That would be great. Won't be long before there's a range review in eco pro mode.

I want a range review in sport mode. I don't buy a BMW to drive it like a Prius.

Not having enough range is what sent me to Lucid to put down a deposit on a Pure (480 HP, 400 miles range). BMW can still lure me back but it needs better products.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

I want a range review in sport mode. I don't buy a BMW to drive it like a Prius.

Not having enough range is what sent me to Lucid to put down a deposit on a Pure (480 HP, 400 miles range). BMW can still lure me back but it needs better products.

I actually looked at the Lucid.

The problem with Lucid is when I would get one?

My car was totaled in August.
The M50 won't deliver until June/July based on the Tanzanite color selection.

I can't wait until 2023 for the Pure.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I actually looked at the Lucid.

The problem with Lucid is when I would get one?

My car was totaled in August.
The M50 won't deliver until June/July based on the Tanzanite color selection.

I can't wait until 2023 for the Pure.

I feel for you. I am in the opposite position. I currently have a 2018 BMW 530e that is loaded and just had the entire battery pack replaced under warranty. I want the charging infrastructure to improve before I get my BEV so I am very happy that the Pure won't be available for a while and my BMW gives me a really nice ride (and, if anything major goes wrong, I have GEICO mechanical breakdown insurance to take care of it).

My best guess is early 2023 at the earliest for a Pure.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

I feel for you. I am in the opposite position. I currently have a 2018 BMW 530e that is loaded and just had the entire battery pack replaced under warranty. I want the charging infrastructure to improve before I get my BEV so I am very happy that the Pure won't be available for a while and my BMW gives me a really nice ride (and, if anything major goes wrong, I have GEICO mechanical breakdown insurance to take care of it).

My best guess is early 2023 at the earliest for a Pure.

I'm not really concerned about charging.
I have had L2 at my home for 7 years now.

I have 200A service and can add a second L2 50A charger.

I'll need that second one because as it stands the M50 arrives late spring or early summer and I expect a Fisker Ocean in the driveway early 2023. That will be my wife's new car.

I like the Lucid, but I just can't wait that long.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I actually looked at the Lucid.

The problem with Lucid is when I would get one?

My car was totaled in August.
The M50 won't deliver until June/July based on the Tanzanite color selection.

I can't wait until 2023 for the Pure.

Going carless since August 2021 and waiting till June/July 2022 take commitment and conviction!

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Going carless since August 2021 and waiting till June/July 2022 take commitment and conviction!

Yeah,. it wasn't intentional.

My E90 got totaled and I see no need to buy an interim car.

I put the deposit on the M50 in June with the intention to drive my E90 until the M50 came then turn the E90 into a dedicated track car.

"The best plans of mice and men...."
August the E90 saw an unfortunate incident which eventually meant a total loss.

I drove a loaner for 2 months. First a 5 series then a 2022 fully loaded 740i.

Now I'm driving either our X5 or my niece's Fiat 500x.
The 500x is waiting for an engine recall due to oil consumption so I'm driving it and regularly checking the oil.

It will go away as soon as the dealer can fix the engine, then it goes to her mom.

By then I hope to have my 2003 Mini Cooper S back on the road. I bought it for cheap and it needed a lot of work. Need to change the injectors out now. I have a lean condition when the O2 sensors go into closed loop and I've checked and changed everything else.
It won't pass smog right now.

Anyway. Dedication. Yeah.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Anyway. Dedication. Yeah.

Wow that is quiet a car story!

My car story was somewhat accidental. My ordered Model 3 (waited for 2 months) was no show in April, so I test drove a G20 and immediately recognized the E46/E39 DNAs.

So I got priority 1 on a unit that arrived 2 days later, and in the interim arranged the sales of my previous F30.

Both transactions were done in 2 days. I guess that is also dedication to some extent.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Wow that is quiet a car story!

My car story was somewhat accidental. My ordered Model 3 (waited for 2 months) was no show in April, so I test drove a G20 and immediately recognized the E46/E39 DNAs.

So I got priority 1 on a unit that arrived 2 days later, and in the interim arranged the sales of my previous F30.

Both transactions were done in 2 days. I guess that is also dedication to some extent.

Fortunate that I don't have a commute anymore. I've been home since COVID.

I wasn't a fan of the ergonomics of the F3x/F8x cars coming from an E90. The door pocket on the F cars was too wide and the foot well too narrow. I always felt like I was standing in a bucket when driving one.

Anyway the grand coupe has much better ergonomics. It's a big car coming from an E90. It's as big as an E39 5 series

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Fortunate that I don't have a commute anymore. I've been home since COVID.

I wasn't a fan of the ergonomics of the F3x/F8x cars coming from an E90. The door pocket on the F cars was too wide and the foot well too narrow. I always felt like I was standing in a bucket when driving one.

Anyway the grand coupe has much better ergonomics. It's a big car coming from an E90. It's as big as an E39 5 series

F30 is a more comfortable car to me than E90, which has harsher ride than F30.

The G20 is somewhere between E46 and E39, and leans more towards E39 than E46, and is as close to a E39 with up-to-date engine + mpg techs as one can get brand new from factory.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

F30 is a more comfortable car to me than E90, which has harsher ride than F30.

The G20 is somewhere between E46 and E39, and leans more towards E39 than E46, and is as close to a E39 with up-to-date engine + mpg techs as one can get brand new from factory.

The F30 had vague steering feel to me. They didn't have the electric assist dialed in to me.

The F30 reminded me of a Toyota Camry, only German. My E90 probably wasn't a comfortable car for most. It had Bilstein B8 with M-Sport springs that cam on it.

I test drive an M4 recently and the SA said most people complain about the stuff ride. I on the other hand was in love.

I test drive a Grand Coupe last week and liked it more than the F30 cars I have driven.

I lean toward sport in ride comfort. I hate soft cars.

I'm coming from a line of M cars in my past and a E90 335i (N54) that was modded and tuned. Camber plates, B8, Cobb software, transmission tune, resonator delete, Brembo retrofit, mFactory limited slip, Apex 19" wheels, aluminum charge pipe, intake, aluminum radiator and the list goes on. It was my track car.

Damn I miss that E90.......

It's going to be a long six months....

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

The F30 had vague steering feel to me. They didn't have the electric assist dialed in to me.

The F30 reminded me of a Toyota Camry, only German. My E90 probably wasn't a comfortable car for most. It had Bilstein B8 with M-Sport springs that cam on it.

Yes many BMW enthusiasts hate F30 steering and soft rides. The F30's steering and soft ride is OK for me coming from E39, but I can see E46/E90 folks hating F30.

The hidden gem of F30 is that, in spite of the soft ride(both non-M and M sport from factory), it is still a BMW in terms of 50/50 + brilliant ZF 8AT + N26 turbo that pulls 0-60 in 5.8 seconds, rotates around curves with ease, and wakes up(w.r.t. stability and handling) at high speeds.

The one thing I don't like about F30 is the bouncy ride on uneven terrains, and G20 fixes that with lift-related dampers.

Even with that, I would say F30 is still a better handling car than Model 3, which does not feel solid nor stable at corners and high speed.

My expectation is that i4 will outhandle Model 3.

[Tim Callahan]

I agree with F30 bouncy and over soft ride. My E90 (325ix) made room for Audi A4 because I did not like how F30 looks or rides. Now I am looking forward to getting back to BMW with i4M50.

Initially I was checking for Audi BEVs. However etron GT was way above my budget (over 100k) while Q4 etron and etron are SUVs with uninspiring performance.

When BMW dealer made much better offer from my A4 than Audi dealer that was it.