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      03-02-2019, 04:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
I don't think any "real estate" needs to be allocated. This isn't some fixed format display.

I would EXPECT BMW is using the same technology as present in many of its other vehicles. (Unlike the i8) The HUD in most M cars displays multiple different screens of data depending on mode the car is in. (The content of the displays aren't "fixed").

My guess is that its simply a very bright LED panel that reflects off the windshield. Its not terribly complicated and it will display pretty much anything you "paint" on it...
Yes, of course, it’s just a bright display. But unless you format the information and tell the screen where you want it to go, all you get is a bunch of pixelated numbers, like on an old DOS machine. So, if you want shiftpoints and RPMs and tire pressures and weather data on there, other stuff needs to get removed, made smaller, pushed aside, whatever. If that’s not already configured somewhere in the system, then either you have to do it yourself or you can’t have it. Just because there’s data on one end and a display on the other, doesn’t mean the car is prepared to show it all. Ever tried to configure a smart watch to show exactly what you want to see during your favorite workout? There are things it will do, and things it won’t - whether the data is somewhere in there or not. You’d have to hack the firmware to change that.
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      03-08-2019, 10:21 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Aye-eight View Post
Yes, of course, it’s just a bright display. But unless you format the information and tell the screen where you want it to go, all you get is a bunch of pixelated numbers, like on an old DOS machine. So, if you want shiftpoints and RPMs and tire pressures and weather data on there, other stuff needs to get removed, made smaller, pushed aside, whatever. If that’s not already configured somewhere in the system, then either you have to do it yourself or you can’t have it. Just because there’s data on one end and a display on the other, doesn’t mean the car is prepared to show it all. Ever tried to configure a smart watch to show exactly what you want to see during your favorite workout? There are things it will do, and things it won’t - whether the data is somewhere in there or not. You’d have to hack the firmware to change that.
No, that's not exactly correct...

You are confusing two different types of LED/LCD displays. There is a common format which has a FIXED segmented display where individual pixels are either being illuminated or not. This is a very old (and cheap) technology. It is NOT flexible and it is also NOT what BMW is using in their HUDs. This type of display ONLY shows one single array of data as the pixels are either illuminated or not (and the colors are fixed).

You can clearly see that BMW's use a more flexible modern display when they switch from "Normal" to "M" mode (for instance) and the contents of the display are COMPLETELY different. You can even select which data is displayed via the HUD via iDrive on many models. This is not simply turning pixels on or off, it is completely rewriting the contents of this display, on demand. (I've even coded (enabled) the radio stations display in the HUD of my M6). The ability to display graphic mapping info in the HUD also confirms this.

There is no reason to use the very old fixed pixel technology when a simple modern backlit LED graphics panel provides much more flexibility. The complete change of data and available layout in many BMW's clearly demonstrates that these panels are NOT using a fixed pixel segment display.

Its actually MORE complicated and restrictive to use fixed segment displays when a simple backlit RGB panel can perform the same function with much more flexibility. BMW can write one generic display function API and use one common RGB HUD panel design to meet the basic need of all their vehicles. If BMW were to use a fixed segment pixel display, then each car could need a different HUD and programming (Different RPM ranges etc). Its simply NOT the way modern programming and manufacturing is done...
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      03-17-2019, 09:38 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
No, that's not exactly correct...

You are confusing two different types of LED/LCD displays. There is a common format which has a FIXED segmented display where individual pixels are either being illuminated or not. This is a very old (and cheap) technology. It is NOT flexible and it is also NOT what BMW is using in their HUDs. This type of display ONLY shows one single array of data as the pixels are either illuminated or not (and the colors are fixed).

You can clearly see that BMW's use a more flexible modern display when they switch from "Normal" to "M" mode (for instance) and the contents of the display are COMPLETELY different. You can even select which data is displayed via the HUD via iDrive on many models. This is not simply turning pixels on or off, it is completely rewriting the contents of this display, on demand. (I've even coded (enabled) the radio stations display in the HUD of my M6). The ability to display graphic mapping info in the HUD also confirms this.

There is no reason to use the very old fixed pixel technology when a simple modern backlit LED graphics panel provides much more flexibility. The complete change of data and available layout in many BMW's clearly demonstrates that these panels are NOT using a fixed pixel segment display.

Its actually MORE complicated and restrictive to use fixed segment displays when a simple backlit RGB panel can perform the same function with much more flexibility. BMW can write one generic display function API and use one common RGB HUD panel design to meet the basic need of all their vehicles. If BMW were to use a fixed segment pixel display, then each car could need a different HUD and programming (Different RPM ranges etc). Its simply NOT the way modern programming and manufacturing is done...
I’m sorry. You’re completely missing the point. This has nothing to do with the type of display being used. A display has a controller that tells a display where to illuminate and where not to. This controller needs to be programmed to know what to do with additional information that you send to it. Is it supposed to be big, small, a number, a graph, upper left corner, lower right corner? The information to be displayed needs to be arranged. That’s what I mean by screen real estate. Whatever you observe as “flexible” displaying of information is pre-programmed in order to be that flexible. It doesn’t invent itself on the fly.

So, if you eant more info on your HUD, that possibility must already be built into the system.
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      03-18-2019, 10:17 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aye-eight View Post
I’m sorry. You’re completely missing the point. This has nothing to do with the type of display being used. A display has a controller that tells a display where to illuminate and where not to. This controller needs to be programmed to know what to do with additional information that you send to it. Is it supposed to be big, small, a number, a graph, upper left corner, lower right corner? The information to be displayed needs to be arranged. That’s what I mean by screen real estate. Whatever you observe as “flexible” displaying of information is pre-programmed in order to be that flexible. It doesn’t invent itself on the fly.

So, if you eant more info on your HUD, that possibility must already be built into the system.
Nope, its not that I don't understand what you are saying, its that I don't believe its correct....

The HUD's are nothing more than Backlit LED panels being drawn by graphics chips. Exactly like a computer monitor. Nothing more complicated than that. Completely flexible yet still entirely code (firmware) dependent. The image is only fixed wrt what ever the CODE has been designed to display (not the HARDWARE).
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      03-27-2019, 03:22 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aye-eight View Post
I’m sorry. You’re completely missing the point. This has nothing to do with the type of display being used. A display has a controller that tells a display where to illuminate and where not to. This controller needs to be programmed to know what to do with additional information that you send to it. Is it supposed to be big, small, a number, a graph, upper left corner, lower right corner? The information to be displayed needs to be arranged. That’s what I mean by screen real estate. Whatever you observe as “flexible” displaying of information is pre-programmed in order to be that flexible. It doesn’t invent itself on the fly.

So, if you eant more info on your HUD, that possibility must already be built into the system.
Nope, its not that I don't understand what you are saying, its that I don't believe its correct....

The HUD's are nothing more than Backlit LED panels being drawn by graphics chips. Exactly like a computer monitor. Nothing more complicated than that. Completely flexible yet still entirely code (firmware) dependent. The image is only fixed wrt what ever the CODE has been designed to display (not the HARDWARE).
I completely agree with you... however I wouldn't put it past some engineer to design to meet bare minimum of what the HUD was designed to do at the time. Remember the 70's when you only had so many bits to work with?
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      03-27-2019, 10:23 AM   #28
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Its actually MORE expensive to implement a design which uses limited functionality hardware anymore. It used to be that functionality was minimized to save cost (fixed segment displays), but now that is no longer the case. Its actually pretty hard to find that technology any more. As the hardware becomes more capable/cheaper/available, the functional implementation gets moved into software...

Remember the IBM Selectric Typewriter? You used to change the fonts by changing the ball (hardware). Once dot matrix printing became available (and then inkjet, laser, ...), you no longer had to change the hardware to change the display (font). It is all done in software now...
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      03-27-2019, 07:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Its actually MORE expensive to implement a design which uses limited functionality hardware anymore. It used to be that functionality was minimized to save cost (fixed segment displays), but now that is no longer the case. Its actually pretty hard to find that technology any more. As the hardware becomes more capable/cheaper/available, the functional implementation gets moved into software...

Remember the IBM Selectric Typewriter? You used to change the fonts by changing the ball (hardware). Once dot matrix printing became available (and then inkjet, laser, ...), you no longer had to change the hardware to change the display (font). It is all done in software now...
Good points. I wonder though, if the HUD takes cluster data, or direct data from the EMS. If it's from the EMS, does the IO hardware have the data refresh rate for real-time RPM input, interpretation AND display that the cluster does. Is there a choke point there? If it's a the OBD or EMS level, even more so since the data will be raw. I know even certain OBD readers are hardware limited for real time data streams.
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      03-28-2019, 09:54 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Good points. I wonder though, if the HUD takes cluster data, or direct data from the EMS. If it's from the EMS, does the IO hardware have the data refresh rate for real-time RPM input, interpretation AND display that the cluster does. Is there a choke point there? If it's a the OBD or EMS level, even more so since the data will be raw. I know even certain OBD readers are hardware limited for real time data streams.
My 2019 I8 has the RPM in the HUD as do/did all my other BMW's (M cars). Why would you expect BMW to use substantially different hardware and IO methods across its product line?

I expect the only difference is merely whatever has been facilitated via different versions of the HUD software/firmware.
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      03-28-2019, 10:23 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
My 2019 I8 has the RPM in the HUD as do/did all my other BMW's (M cars). Why would you expect BMW to use substantially different hardware and IO methods across its product line?

I expect the only difference is merely whatever has been facilitated via different versions of the HUD software/firmware.
Maybe the HUD unit got a hardware upgrade for the LCI?

Here's the HUD for the MY 14-17. I can't find the 18+ part number.

Part #62-30-9-395-583

https://parts.germainbmw.com/oem-par...ay-62309395583

The part number for my M3 CS is also different, but that might be because of the casing.
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      03-28-2019, 11:29 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Maybe the HUD unit got a hardware upgrade for the LCI?

Here's the HUD for the MY 14-17. I can't find the 18+ part number.

Part #62-30-9-395-583

https://parts.germainbmw.com/oem-par...ay-62309395583

The part number for my M3 CS is also different, but that might be because of the casing.
Well the conversation has now come full circle. Please go back to post #18, do not pass GO, do not collect $200 :-)

My bet is that the HUD Hardware itself has NOTHING to do with what is displayed on it. It is my bet that the vehicle's FIRMWARE determines what is displayed. (Unless they are just pre-loading newer firmware on the same hardware and changing the P/N)
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