Micro filter

Sophisto · 03-08-2021, 04:54 AM

Yesterday I had a discussion with friends about the filter quality of BMW's micro filters/fine dust filter elements.

Parts catalogue says: "In addition to the functions of a micro / activated carbon filter, the original BMW fine dust filter also filters the smallest particles such as bacteria, allergens and fine dust in the vehicle interior to a minimum."

We were asking ourselves if this might even filter out viruses like COVID-19 - which I don't believe.

But we could not find any detailed information about their exact specifications i. e. pore size or retention rate.

Would be interesting to know. Someone here to enlighten that?

Leto1701 · 03-09-2021, 01:30 AM

Planning to drive the i8 into a crowd and stay save from SARS-COV-2? Covid-19 is not a Virus, it's a disease. The car will not encounter SARS-COV-2 concentrations on the road or in a parking garage that are relevant. If you would theoretically flood the passenger air intake with a SARS-COV-2 Aerosol the filters would have an effect on concentration. This is never 100%. Not even in medical masks. You reduce infection risk, not eliminate it. But then again, why bother? The car won't encounter SARS-COV-2 Aerosols of any relevant concentration on the road.

MolarBear · 03-09-2021, 05:40 AM

Unsure about the filter itself, but largely irrelevant:

Dilution outside of the virus means that it's not an issue in every day use.
The main transmission is via droplets, rather than aerosol. The mechanical barrier of the car and the torturous journey through the ventilation system means these droplets are unlikely to reach you, even if someone is sneezing directly into the air intakes!

For what it's worth, I wear both level 2 and level 3 PPE every day so have to be reasonably clued up about the transmission. Our level 3 filters protect with an electrostatically charged filter, that is probably very similar to the dust filter, if it's up to FFP3/P3 standards.

Louv · 03-09-2021, 09:56 AM

But what if I'm driving indoors? At a wedding. Or concert?

(kidding, I'd never drive in a concert)

stressdoc · 03-09-2021, 10:15 AM

The more salient issue is whether transmission from a passenger would be limited by the filter. Wear a good mask, request that your passengers do as well, and get vaccinated.

Leto1701 · 03-10-2021, 02:36 AM

It's all a matter of statistical probability. It might be possible to construct a scenario where you get infected in a car, alone, driving through a room with high concentration of Aerosol. Droplets don't matter. Very unlikely. Even more unlikely to have any symptoms or more than common cold symptoms from such a low virus load. That risk is anyway statistically neglectable if you are younger than 65 and don't have at least one risk factor like being heavily overweight, ... no matter what you do as you can read in a study conducted by the Robert Koch Institute, responsible for the pandemic management in Germany from a scientific side.

But the easiest is not driving a car inside 😉 and it matters more what happens before, after and in the car. The best way to avoid infection is not doing stupid things.

Sophisto · 03-11-2021, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto1701

Planning to drive the i8 into a crowd and stay save from SARS-COV-2?

No.

I just wanted to know more about the technical specification of the filters...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto1701

Covid-19 is not a Virus, it's a disease.

Thanks for explanation. But despite of scientific definitions everybody knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto1701

The car will not encounter SARS-COV-2 concentrations on the road or in a parking garage that are relevant. If you would theoretically flood the passenger air intake with a SARS-COV-2 Aerosol the filters would have an effect on concentration. This is never 100%. Not even in medical masks. You reduce infection risk, not eliminate it. But then again, why bother? The car won't encounter SARS-COV-2 Aerosols of any relevant concentration on the road.

I know all that. I. e. FFP2 are at around 96%.
And there are many many more factors.
The news channels don't get tired repeating it 24/7...

Leto1701 · 03-11-2021, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophisto

No.

I just wanted to know more about the technical specification of the filters...

Thanks for explanation. But despite of scientific definitions everybody knows exactly what I'm talking about.

I know all that. I. e. FFP2 are at around 96%.
And there are many many more factors.
The news channels don't get tired repeating it 24/7...

Sorry but I think investing the time to use precise language and understanding meanings of words as well a question every number you heard for the scientific background it came from has shown as vital for a meaningful discussion, especially now.

So your question can only be answered with a "no, there is no scientific study I am aware of that looked at the statistical effect of the passenger air filter on SARS-COV-2 infection risk driving indoors at a wedding". And I doubt there ever will be.

But I didn't understand this as a scientific question but a kind of regulars discussion where you want to hear some perspectives that are non scientific. Sorry if I misunderstood.

03-08-2021, 04:54 AM	#1
Sophisto Private First Class 51 Rep 100 Posts Drives: BMW i8 / BMW 850iA Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: German Autobahn iTrader: (0)	Micro filter - question Yesterday I had a discussion with friends about the filter quality of BMW's micro filters/fine dust filter elements. Parts catalogue says: "In addition to the functions of a micro / activated carbon filter, the original BMW fine dust filter also filters the smallest particles such as bacteria, allergens and fine dust in the vehicle interior to a minimum." We were asking ourselves if this might even filter out viruses like COVID-19 - which I don't believe. But we could not find any detailed information about their exact specifications i. e. pore size or retention rate. Would be interesting to know. Someone here to enlighten that?
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03-09-2021, 01:30 AM	#2
Leto1701 Private First Class 64 Rep 195 Posts Drives: BMW i8 Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Planning to drive the i8 into a crowd and stay save from SARS-COV-2? Covid-19 is not a Virus, it's a disease. The car will not encounter SARS-COV-2 concentrations on the road or in a parking garage that are relevant. If you would theoretically flood the passenger air intake with a SARS-COV-2 Aerosol the filters would have an effect on concentration. This is never 100%. Not even in medical masks. You reduce infection risk, not eliminate it. But then again, why bother? The car won't encounter SARS-COV-2 Aerosols of any relevant concentration on the road.
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03-09-2021, 05:40 AM	#3
MolarBear Private First Class 29 Rep 162 Posts Drives: BMW i8 LCI Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Unsure about the filter itself, but largely irrelevant: Dilution outside of the virus means that it's not an issue in every day use. The main transmission is via droplets, rather than aerosol. The mechanical barrier of the car and the torturous journey through the ventilation system means these droplets are unlikely to reach you, even if someone is sneezing directly into the air intakes! For what it's worth, I wear both level 2 and level 3 PPE every day so have to be reasonably clued up about the transmission. Our level 3 filters protect with an electrostatically charged filter, that is probably very similar to the dust filter, if it's up to FFP3/P3 standards.
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03-09-2021, 09:56 AM	#4
Louv Driver 301 Rep 382 Posts Drives: Mephisto Gray Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mainely iTrader: (0)	But what if I'm driving indoors? At a wedding. Or concert? (kidding, I'd never drive in a concert) __________________ cages:'18 M2, '15 i8, '15 X6M and '18 K1600GT History: '96 Z3, '95 540i, '95 540iA, '00 M5, '04 X5, '88 M6, '89 750iL, '08 Z4MCoupe, '12 ActiveE, '62 R60/2, '76 R90S, '08 R1200GSA, '10 G450X I own no garage queens. If it's in my driveway, it's been ridden hard and put away wet. ...and now, with a light crust of Maine road salt.
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03-09-2021, 10:15 AM	#5
stressdoc Moderator 617 Rep 10,855 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	The more salient issue is whether transmission from a passenger would be limited by the filter. Wear a good mask, request that your passengers do as well, and get vaccinated. __________________ My recent ED photos: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1026808 my not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829 Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
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03-10-2021, 02:36 AM	#6
Leto1701 Private First Class 64 Rep 195 Posts Drives: BMW i8 Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	It's all a matter of statistical probability. It might be possible to construct a scenario where you get infected in a car, alone, driving through a room with high concentration of Aerosol. Droplets don't matter. Very unlikely. Even more unlikely to have any symptoms or more than common cold symptoms from such a low virus load. That risk is anyway statistically neglectable if you are younger than 65 and don't have at least one risk factor like being heavily overweight, ... no matter what you do as you can read in a study conducted by the Robert Koch Institute, responsible for the pandemic management in Germany from a scientific side. But the easiest is not driving a car inside 😉 and it matters more what happens before, after and in the car. The best way to avoid infection is not doing stupid things.
	Appreciate 0 Quote