Forum for the entire range of BMW electric vehicles
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Today's Posts
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Off-Topic Discussions Board

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-13-2009, 10:21 AM   #1
Blake
Banned
No_Country
757
Rep
4,649
Posts

Drives: Chevy Aveo
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Parent's Basement

iTrader: (7)

continental commuter plane crashes in buffalo, ny. 50 dead

Quote:
CLARENCE CENTER, New York (CNN) -- A Continental Airlines plane crashed into a house near Buffalo, New York, late Thursday, killing all 49 people aboard and a person in the home, authorities said.
Continental Airlines Flight 3407 crashed into a house in Clarence Center, New York, late Thursday.

"This is easily the saddest day in the history of our airline," said Philip Trenary, CEO of Colgan Air, which operated the flight for Continental.

Continental Connection Flight 3407, a Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 74-seat turboprop, was en route from Newark, New Jersey, to Buffalo when it went down at around 10:20 p.m. ET, about seven miles from Buffalo Niagara International Airport.

A National Transportation Safety Board official said Friday morning the plane's voice and cockpit data recorders had been recovered from the wreckage and were being taken to Washington, D.C., for analysis.

Meanwhile, firefighters continued to battle a blaze at the crash site and didn't expected to have it extinguished until Friday afternoon, officials said.

Dave Bissonette, Clarence Center's natural disaster services coordinator, said it was "clearly a direct hit" on the house. Video See what's left of the plane »

Four people were injured at the crash site, including a mother and daughter inside the house that was hit. They suffered minor injuries and were treated and released from a Williamsville hospital, a spokeswoman said.

Two firefighters also were brought in for treatment of smoke inhalation and minor injuries. iReport.com: Flames rise from crash site

A Colgan Air spokesperson identified the crew as pilot Capt. Marvin Renslow, first officer Rebecca Shaw and flight attendants Matilda Quintero and Donna Prisco. An off-duty pilot, Capt. Joseph Zuffoletto, was also aboard.

CNN has listened to a tape of communications between air traffic control and the flight crew. The first officer was calm. The plane was cleared for approach. About two minutes later, the air traffic controller came back, his voice full of stress. Radar contact was lost.

The question goes out: Can other planes see anything? No one responds. The controller says they might have a plane down. The pilot's last comment was "Colgan Flight 3407." There were no sounds of distress.

It was not clear whether the mix of sleet and snow in the area played any role in the crash of Flight 3407. Video Watch what weather was like when disaster happened »

Other planes continued to arrive and land safely at Buffalo about the time the flight went down. Delta Flight 1998, an MD-88 jet, landed at 10:17 p.m. The Delta crew did not see Flight 3407.

The Delta flight reported rime icing, a condition in which ice quickly builds up on the leading edge of the wings. A US Airways flight also reported icing. Video Watch pilot explain how ice affects plane wings »

Authorities said the plane went down near a fire hall, so firefighters were quick to respond to the crash site. At least nine volunteer fire departments responded. iReport.com: Are you there? Let us know

Witness Tony Tatro was on his way home from the gym when the plane flew about 75 feet above him. The craft's nose was lower than usual and and the left wing was tilted, he told CNN.

"The engines didn't sound typical, didn't sound normal," he said.

Keith Burtis said he was driving about a mile from the crash site when he heard the plane go down.

"It was a high-pitched sound," Burtis said. "It felt like a mini-earthquake."
Don't Miss

* Witnesses saw, heard plane go down
* Turboprop plane one of safest
* Recent major plane incidents
* iReport.com: Share your photos, video, stories
* WIVB: Man was supposed to be on downed flight

Shortly after the crash, Burtis said he saw a steady stream of fire trucks rush by him as smoke billowed into the sky. Other witnesses told CNN they saw the plane nose-dive toward the ground.

Twelve people were evacuated from scene. Law enforcement officials are asking people not to go to the crash site in fear they may hinder the investigation.

"I felt the impact ... sounded like a large explosion," said Brendan Biddlecom, who told CNN he lives two blocks from where the plane crashed. Video Watch report from witness: "All I saw was flames" »

Biddlecom ran out of his home to within a couple hundred yards of the crash. The smoke was thick and acrid, and the heat was intense, he said.

Chris Kausner, who had a sister on the flight, rushed to the Clarence Municipal Center, where he waited for information after emergency teams turned him back from the scene.

"My parents are on vacation in Florida and I had to call down there and tell my father what was going on," he told CNN affiliate WIVB-TV.

When asked how his parents were handling the news, a shaken Kausner responded "To tell you the truth, I heard my mother make a sound that I have never heard before."

The Erie County Medical Examiner's Office established a command post at the scene and had investigators there, a statement from the office said. Officials said relatives of passengers aboard the flight should call 800-621-3263 for information.

Thursday's incident is the first fatal crash of a commercial airliner in the United States since August 2006 when Comair Flight 5191 crashed when it attempted to take off from the wrong runway.
icing maybe? it's been a rough start to the year for commercial aviation.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 10:25 AM   #2
MMMazing07
More than you can afford pal....ferrari
MMMazing07's Avatar
181
Rep
1,471
Posts

Drives: Z4M
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MD

iTrader: (0)

not one survived. thats so sad. my prayers go out to those families
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 10:34 AM   #3
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1963
Rep
61,781
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Same type that crashed...

RIP...
__________________

Last edited by E90SLAM; 01-17-2011 at 09:02 AM..
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 11:17 AM   #4
E82tt6
Colonel
E82tt6's Avatar
103
Rep
2,626
Posts

Drives: '08 Black Saphire Z4 MC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

My dad takes that same flight every two days! :-O

Luckily, not last night.
__________________
'08 Black Saphire/Black Z4 M Coupe
RIP Gretta: Blue Water/Lemon 135i. Died to save me.
-ChuckV
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 11:41 AM   #5
FStop7
I like cars
FStop7's Avatar
Vatican City State
329
Rep
5,052
Posts

Drives: M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Newbury Park, CA

iTrader: (3)

I hate flying on those commuter prop planes so much.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 12:52 PM   #6
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1963
Rep
61,781
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
ATC Transcript of the Buffalo Crash...

Quote:
ATC Transcript:

17:20
Tower: Colgan 3407, Buffalo?

17:30
Tower: Colgan 3407, Approach?

17:35
Tower: Delta 1998, look off your right side about 5 miles, for a Dash-8, you see anything there?

17:40
Delta 1998: Negative, Delta 1998, we’re just off the bottoms, nothing on TCAS

17:50
Tower: Colgan 3407, Buffalo?


(A few calls from Tower (?) asking Colgan 3407 if he’s on the frequency. )

19:35
Tower: Delta 1998, you have VFR conditions there?

19:40
Delta 1998: negative.

20:10
Tower: Colgan 3407, Buffalo Tower, how do you hear?

20:27
Tower: (talking to someone else)?: Need some ground communication, need to talk to someone at least 5 miles NNE, ok, possibly clearance. That area right in there, Akron area, either State police or sheriff’s dept, we need to find out if anything’s on the ground. This aircraft was 5 miles out, all of a sudden we have no response from that aircraft.

20:40
(continued):All I can tell you is that we had an aircraft over the marker, and we’re not talking to him now

21:03
Tower?: Delta 1998, you had any icing where you’re at?

21:05
Delta 1998: We picked up some on the way down, not building up any more now. It was 6500 down to 3500 maybe?

21:10
Tower: ok, thank you sir. Delta 1998, it’s gonna be a delay, ah, gonna bring you back around, expect a hold over Klump.

21:45
Tower: Jetblue 5, I’ll have to get back to you, apparently we have an emergency, I’ll have to get back to you.

22:48
Tower: Cactus 1452, we’ll be bringing you back around here shortly to the airport here

23:00
Cactus 1452: Ok, we’re picking up rime ice here, for a while.

23:59
tower: for all aircraft this frequency, we did have a Dash-8 over the marker that didn’t make the airport, he appears to be about 5 miles away from the airport. For Delta 1998, I’m gonna bring you in on the approach, if you could give me a pirep when you get to 2300, and ah, if you have any problem with the localizer, let me know, however we’re showing all in the green here.

24:55
Delta 1998: ILS 23, and we’re still in IMC here at 2300

24:59
Tower: you getting any icing there?

25:04
Delta 1998: it doesn’t appear to be building, we’ve got ah, ½, ¼ inch that’s was with us from the descent, remained with us the whole time.

25:12
tower: ok.

25:20
(Cactus 1452 also reports rime ice for 20 miles south of airport)

(other normal communications)

29:10
Cactus 1452: uh tower, Cactus 1452, is coming up on Klump, and uh, we just, we saw it down, you know what’s going on?

29:20
Tower: Cactus 1452, Buffalo tower, winds 260 at 14, you’re cleared to land, yes sir, we are aware
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 01:39 PM   #7
FStop7
I like cars
FStop7's Avatar
Vatican City State
329
Rep
5,052
Posts

Drives: M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Newbury Park, CA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
23:00
Cactus 1452: Ok, we’re picking up rime ice here, for a while.
I just looked up "rime ice" on Google Image Search. Not good.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 01:46 PM   #8
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1963
Rep
61,781
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
I just looked up "rime ice" on Google Image Search. Not good.
also searched Wikipedia...

Quote:
These three types occur also when ice forms on the surface of an aircraft when it flies through a cloud made of supercooled water liquid droplets. Rime ice is the less dense, milky ice is intermediate and clear ice is the most dense. Dense ice can spoil lift and may have a catastrophic effect on an airborne aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_rime
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 01:46 PM   #9
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1963
Rep
61,781
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
I hate to be the tower controller...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 01:59 PM   #10
bmstyle71
Captain
bmstyle71's Avatar
115
Rep
635
Posts

Drives: jet black e92 m3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: tampa florida

iTrader: (0)

Colgan just got those planes fairly recently too. Why would rime ice cause a quick crash that they wouldn't have time to make a distress call though? Did they just take off? (sorry didn't read the whole thing)Not to mention that plane has boots and prop de ice....hmm weird. May they R.I.P
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 02:16 PM   #11
DFW_M
Major General
1671
Rep
6,589
Posts

Drives: Macan GTS
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmstyle71 View Post
Colgan just got those planes fairly recently too. Why would rime ice cause a quick crash that they wouldn't have time to make a distress call though? Did they just take off? (sorry didn't read the whole thing)Not to mention that plane has boots and prop de ice....hmm weird. May they R.I.P
They were at outter marker instructed to turn from 310 to 260 = turn, Disengage Autopilot that could have masked the ice conditions adjusting the attitude (pitch/trim), low altitude (2300' AGL), slow... Sounds like a "perfect storm" conditions...unfortunately....
There is no Auto De-icing on the Dash 8....
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 02:20 PM   #12
bmstyle71
Captain
bmstyle71's Avatar
115
Rep
635
Posts

Drives: jet black e92 m3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: tampa florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
There is no Auto De-icing on the Dash 8....
Yeah that's true... do you think they might have been busy with the landing and IMC conditions that they overlooked the icing and accumulated so fast that it just lost all it's lift? Seems pretty careless if that was the case. As you said going too slow requires a pitch up causing ice to accumulate under the wing where there is no de ice equipment but there is a minimum ice speed that I am sure they know of and won't allow themselves to go slower than that in icy conditions.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 02:22 PM   #13
DFW_M
Major General
1671
Rep
6,589
Posts

Drives: Macan GTS
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmstyle71 View Post
Yeah that's true... do you think they might have been busy with the landing and IMC conditions that they overlooked the icing and accumulated so fast that it just lost all it's lift? Seems pretty careless if that was the case.
I would say if the icing is the cause, they were careless no matter what else was going on...
Lets see what the NTSB digs out....

Also, the Auto pilot would adjust the pitch/trim according to the conditions, gradually. WHen you disengage it and not aware of the conditions, that could be bad...
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 02:35 PM   #14
Express
Major General
Express's Avatar
Israel
369
Rep
8,693
Posts

Drives: 06 330i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Promise Land

iTrader: (17)

Garage List
2006 BMW 330i  [8.30]
apparently everyone who though icing is retarded. see my other thread.

its really sad.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 02:38 PM   #15
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1963
Rep
61,781
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmstyle71 View Post
Colgan just got those planes fairly recently too. Why would rime ice cause a quick crash that they wouldn't have time to make a distress call though? Did they just take off? (sorry didn't read the whole thing)Not to mention that plane has boots and prop de ice....hmm weird. May they R.I.P
They're just about 5 miles on final approach to BUF....
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 03:21 PM   #16
quagmire
I am Gundam
quagmire's Avatar
186
Rep
1,211
Posts

Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

As stated in the other thread, looks like they lost control of the aircraft when they extended the flaps to 15 degrees.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2009, 03:50 PM   #17
FStop7
I like cars
FStop7's Avatar
Vatican City State
329
Rep
5,052
Posts

Drives: M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Newbury Park, CA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by express705 View Post
apparently everyone who though icing is retarded. see my other thread.

its really sad.
Your other thread sucks. You try to blame it on the fact that it was a prop plane in icy conditions, which is completely baseless.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-14-2009, 01:06 AM   #18
blue2fire
Brigadier General
blue2fire's Avatar
Cayman Islands
221
Rep
4,279
Posts

Drives: BMW 135i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Location, Location, Location

iTrader: (8)

That is sad.
RIP
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:15 PM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST