[Carac]

700 on cars.com now

[Aye-eight]

Originally Posted by Carac

700 on cars.com now

I see 574 i8s and 1520 Porsche 911s. What I don't see is the point of the discussion. The number of used ones available will go up for quite a while for any newly introduced cars. What's the problem?

The only ones who may have reason to be miffed are the ones who paid 30k over sticker or something insane like that. According to this forum, someone paid 80k over. Sorry. If you do that, you don't buy a car. You compensate for something. And that might as well cost you. I, for my part, don't particularly care how many used ones are available.

Look at it this way: most of the ones for sale are sitting in a lot somewhere and aren't being driven. Makes ours even more of a rare sight. Let's take some more off the road!

My two cents worth ...

[Carac]

Just pointing out that you are statistically more likely to see an i8 than a M6 GranCoupe, M6 Coupe, X5 M, or X6 M if you walked into a showroom right now.

And while everyone is correct in stating that almost no car is an investment, I'm sure everyone would agree that it doesn't mean they WANTED BMW to completely saturate the market with unsold cars. They decided to double production before the first quarter of sales was finished...and now its coming back to bite them and owners that might want to sell or trade within the next couple of years. A dealer isn't going to give you a generous trade-in when they have 4 sitting in the showroom for months. As it stands, a quarter of the i8's brought to the US sit unsold on dealer lots a over a year into production. Demand has completely dried up, but BMW continues to pump them out like it never did.

It's a wonderful time to buy an i8, assuming you don't mind the depreciation that's only going to get worse as they continue to produce twice as many i8's as they can sell per month.

They sold 118 i8's in November. In that time the number of new i8's available on cars.com increased by more than a 100. When you're making ~250 extremely niche cars a month and selling 118 of them, you're doing yourself and the existing owners a disservice.

[jhbi8]

Is this guy rap427 back from being banned? Same tune.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by jhbi8

Is this guy rap427 back from being banned? Same tune.

[Carac]

He was banned for making a discussion personal and insulting someone. I'm just stating facts.

Anyone that wishes to laugh at facts is free to. I'm just pointing out the cold hard truth that BMW is so desperate to recoup/amortize as much of i8 development costs as possible that they are willing to keep pumping out i8's with the hope that some how, some way they all get sold at some point regardless of what it does to resale values and eventual collector status further down the road. They sold more i8's in the first year than they sold Z8's over five. I sold mine after six months because BMW had gone from preaching up the limited and special nature of the car during for years at car shows right up to launch then doubling production and beginning to call and treat it like a volume model shortly after launch. Just as an example, at launch i8's were transported in covered transports. Now you can see them shipping with other volume models on open trucks.

Just stating that BMW has sold to most of the people in the overlap of a Venn diagram with "People that can afford a new i8" and "People that want a new i8". That's when you scale back production or introduce updates to refresh sales, instead of flooding the market with cars that have little to no perspective customers.

[jcpca356]

Doesn't bother me one bit. I was shopping for a used F430 and thought hey I can spend less money on this new tech i8 and it comes with warranty and maintenance for 4 years. Bought it and I'll never look back. So what if there are 10,000 i8's for sale. I LOVE MINE.

[jcpca356]

What would bother me a ton would be owning a brand new range rover and KNOWING that it will depreciate more than most cars on the planet.

[Aye-eight]

Originally Posted by Carac

Just pointing out that you are statistically more likely to see an i8 than a M6 GranCoupe, M6 Coupe, X5 M, or X6 M if you walked into a showroom right now.

And while everyone is correct in stating that almost no car is an investment, I'm sure everyone would agree that it doesn't mean they WANTED BMW to completely saturate the market with unsold cars. They decided to double production before the first quarter of sales was finished...and now its coming back to bite them and owners that might want to sell or trade within the next couple of years. A dealer isn't going to give you a generous trade-in when they have 4 sitting in the showroom for months. As it stands, a quarter of the i8's brought to the US sit unsold on dealer lots a over a year into production. Demand has completely dried up, but BMW continues to pump them out like it never did.

It's a wonderful time to buy an i8, assuming you don't mind the depreciation that's only going to get worse as they continue to produce twice as many i8's as they can sell per month.

They sold 118 i8's in November. In that time the number of new i8's available on cars.com increased by more than a 100. When you're making ~250 extremely niche cars a month and selling 118 of them, you're doing yourself and the existing owners a disservice.

At current production rate they're making about 580 per month for worldwide distribution. Are you saying almost half of them are going to the US? Maybe it's just an allocation problem. The dealers in Europe sure don't have i8s sitting in their lots. But they throw 5 series x-drives at you at 30% discount.

I maintain there is no "flood" of i8s. Just a bunch of owners who got in over their heads because they thought the car was so cool, they had to have it, no matter the cost. Now they have to dump them because their mortgage won't go away.

[Aye-eight]

Originally Posted by Carac

He was banned for making a discussion personal and insulting someone. I'm just stating facts.

Anyone that wishes to laugh at facts is free to. I'm just pointing out the cold hard truth that BMW is so desperate to recoup/amortize as much of i8 development costs as possible that they are willing to keep pumping out i8's with the hope that some how, some way they all get sold at some point regardless of what it does to resale values and eventual collector status further down the road. They sold more i8's in the first year than they sold Z8's over five. I sold mine after six months because BMW had gone from preaching up the limited and special nature of the car during for years at car shows right up to launch then doubling production and beginning to call and treat it like a volume model shortly after launch. Just as an example, at launch i8's were transported in covered transports. Now you can see them shipping with other volume models on open trucks.

Just stating that BMW has sold to most of the people in the overlap of a Venn diagram with "People that can afford a new i8" and "People that want a new i8". That's when you scale back production or introduce updates to refresh sales, instead of flooding the market with cars that have little to no perspective customers.

Like I said in an earlier discussion on the same topic: I have never seen BMW state that this would be super-rare car. And even at 7000 per year, production can still be considered very limited today. If your friendly US dealers told you fairy tales to get a couple more grand out of your pockets, that's - frankly - your problem.

I got mine in January at 21% off sticker. Not because they had a dozen sitting in the showroom (it was still a 4 momths wait), but because they applied company and currency discounts to the i8 just like they would to any other model. Simple, fair trading.

[YWGT3]

Originally Posted by Carac

He was banned for making a discussion personal and insulting someone. I'm just stating facts.

Anyone that wishes to laugh at facts is free to. I'm just pointing out the cold hard truth that BMW is so desperate to recoup/amortize as much of i8 development costs as possible that they are willing to keep pumping out i8's with the hope that some how, some way they all get sold at some point regardless of what it does to resale values and eventual collector status further down the road. They sold more i8's in the first year than they sold Z8's over five. I sold mine after six months because BMW had gone from preaching up the limited and special nature of the car during for years at car shows right up to launch then doubling production and beginning to call and treat it like a volume model shortly after launch. Just as an example, at launch i8's were transported in covered transports. Now you can see them shipping with other volume models on open trucks.

Just stating that BMW has sold to most of the people in the overlap of a Venn diagram with "People that can afford a new i8" and "People that want a new i8". That's when you scale back production or introduce updates to refresh sales, instead of flooding the market with cars that have little to no perspective customers.

I appreciate your comments and clearly understand your justification. You made a timely sale of your i8 as you've mentioned and I applaud your keen sense of timing on your exit. The fact that excess i8 production will impact pricing is a poignant fact, one which we've been made well aware of ad nauseam by others (not you). Ultimately market fundamentals will prevail and BMW will find its footing with respect to adjusting the i8 manufacturing spigot.

While your decision has worked for you, there are many of us who are less into commoditizing the i8 and are more interested in savoring its driving experience. Put simply, I wouldn't have delayed my i8 purchase last March nor would I be inclined to give up its sheer driving pleasure for the sake of capital preservation or retaining investment value. After all and numbers aside, there is an intrinsic value to consider and that value or experience for me with the i8, thus far, has been irreplaceable.

By the way, thanks for your advice and comments on the Merc GT. The dealer came back to me with a reduced price on my order which I, once again and with no regrets, declined. Subsequently learned from my MB SA that the vehicle in question has been in the shop more than its been on the road. Dodged that bullet!

[jhbi8]

Originally Posted by Carac

He was banned for making a discussion personal and insulting someone. I'm just stating facts.

Anyone that wishes to laugh at facts is free to. I'm just pointing out the cold hard truth that BMW is so desperate to recoup/amortize as much of i8 development costs as possible that they are willing to keep pumping out i8's with the hope that some how, some way they all get sold at some point regardless of what it does to resale values and eventual collector status further down the road. They sold more i8's in the first year than they sold Z8's over five. I sold mine after six months because BMW had gone from preaching up the limited and special nature of the car during for years at car shows right up to launch then doubling production and beginning to call and treat it like a volume model shortly after launch. Just as an example, at launch i8's were transported in covered transports. Now you can see them shipping with other volume models on open trucks.

Just stating that BMW has sold to most of the people in the overlap of a Venn diagram with "People that can afford a new i8" and "People that want a new i8". That's when you scale back production or introduce updates to refresh sales, instead of flooding the market with cars that have little to no perspective customers.

You're stating a fact (production numbers) and then writing paragraphs characterizing that fact, opining on the motive behind that fact, and encouraging everyone who didn't sell--like you and your buddy rap427 sold--to feel "betrayed" by BMW, lied to, etc etc ad nauseum.

As Jack Kerouac once said, "Get off it."

[Carac]

Originally Posted by jcpca356

What would bother me a ton would be owning a brand new range rover and KNOWING that it will depreciate more than most cars on the planet.

Then it's a good thing I bought one they only make a few hundred of a year. I wasn't going to bring it up, but if you want a SVR, you have about 30 to choose from in the US...not 700. It's also relavent to note that since the introduction of the L405 and L454, Range Rovers and Range Rover Sports with V8s have been some of the slowest depreciating cars on the market.

But I was talking about the i8, and mainly that there are good deals at the moment and they are going to get even better as a growing dealer inventory forces heavier discounts. I just don't want anyone to be under the illusion that BMW cares about the second hand market for i8s the way they had implied prior to the cars release talking up how limited production would be (I recall at least two occasions where BMW reps were quoted saying they would only be making 250-500 i8s a year). The i3 wasn't selling how they wanted and every i3 on the line was taking up a spot of the i8 which they couldn't satisfy orders for at the start, so they shifted production from a car that wasn't selling to one that looked like it would be, then they satisfied the market almost immediately and kept making them. As I've said before, the car is great, BMW is just being BMW when it comes production decisions.

By the way, thanks for your advice and comments on the Merc GT. The dealer came back to me with a reduced price on my order which I, once again and with no regrets, declined. Subsequently learned from my MB SA that the vehicle in question has been in the shop more than its been on the road. Dodged that bullet!

No problem. There have been a statistically significant number of AMG GTs getting bought back or lemoned. I love AMG (and BMW for that matter) but I'm not above calling out either of them when they make bad decisions. Stay away from AMG GTs until they get the kinks worked out. It's the first year or so of E46 M3 production all over again. Just wait a couple years.

[jcpca356]

I count 14 friends who've owned various RR's in the past. Most bought new and proceeded to never buy them again. They were hit with not only gargantuan depreciation but most of their cars spent ton of time in the shop for electrical/mechanical problems.

[YWGT3]

Originally Posted by jcpca356

I count 14 friends who've owned various RR's in the past. Most bought new and proceeded to never buy them again. They were hit with not only gargantuan depreciation but most of their cars spent ton of time in the shop for electrical/mechanical problems.

Actually I had one. Parked my Range Rover at a shopping center awhile back. While I was heading toward the store, I couldn't help but notice the mortified expressions from some of the onlookers staring in my direction. I turned around only to find my Range Rover was going up in flames. It was beyond repair by the time the fire department arrived. Although and I am sure the quality and technology has improved in those cars, I would be more than nervous having another RR in my garage.

Although everything is covered by insurance, there's nothing that can replace one's peace of mind.

[Carac]

Originally Posted by jcpca356

I count 14 friends who've owned various RR's in the past. Most bought new and proceeded to never buy them again. They were hit with not only gargantuan depreciation but most of their cars spent ton of time in the shop for electrical/mechanical problems.

Then you have some unlucky friends. I've had three and the only time they've visited a service center is for scheduled maintenance.

But again, this is a BMW i8 forum and you keep bringing up Range Rovers...
I'm guessing it's an attempt to discredit or make light of my posts with trite and outdated jokes about Range Rover reliability and depreciation from when they were still trumped up farm trucks with nice interiors then amalgamations of Rover, Ford, and various other manufacturer's parts. You're free to keep feeling smug about your i8 purchasing decision, I sure felt good about mine at the time, right up until I saw BMW doing everything possible to pull the rug out from under the market.

Bottom line, it's a great time to buy an i8, there are dealers willing to make some deals that would have been unthinkable this time last year. I'll keep an eye on dealer stock just out of curiosity but I think I've exhausted the point by now.

They went from:

• crazy markups over MSRP
• Sales manager requiring a "Right of first offer" when you decide to sell the car
• Smug sales associates talking about how they were only going to get 1-2 a year (at large dealerships)
• covered transports
• special areas in the showrooms

to

• crazy markdowns under MSRP
• Sales managers saying, "Sure, we allow test drives. You want to take it to lunch?"
• Sales guys saying, "we've got 3 or 4 out back in addition to the ones in the front"
• Open transports
• Parking on the grass next to long-term resident 2-series out front
  
  

[jcpca356]

I think the analogy was appropriate since you were talking about i8 depreciation. RR depreciation or even a new M6 for that matter, I think you'll see that in the long run (say 5-7 years), the i8 will depreciate significantly less. In the longer run (10+) years, I'd say i8 will hold steady say $70-80k.

[Aye-eight]

Originally Posted by YWGT3

Actually I had one. Parked my Range Rover at a shopping center awhile back. While I was heading toward the store, I couldn't help but notice the mortified expressions from some of the onlookers staring in my direction. I turned around only to find my Range Rover was going up in flames. It was beyond repair by the time the fire department arrived. Although and I am sure the quality and technology has improved in those cars, I would be more than nervous having another RR in my garage.

Although everything is covered by insurance, there's nothing that can replace one's peace of mind.

Sounds like the problem friends of mine had. Parked at the school lot to drop off the kids, and fuel was gushing out from under the car. This is after it was in the shop because the engine just stopped dead on the highway in Austria.

But Carac is right - this is an i8 forum.

[cc3]

Might be a few more with Spyder and power upgrade around the corner !!

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/i8/...t-for-ces-2016

[ucla95]

Originally Posted by cc3

power upgrade around the corner !!

I've wondered whether the short MY run for the 2016's was a sign that the MY2017 would be improved in some way.

[SugarSkulls]

Some really good deals well below under invoice (129 is as low as I've seen new- 118 with 6k miles) on plenty of i8s.

Makes it tempting to pick one up....

Question for anyone who may be able to enlighten me- if I decided to lease a used one- that's a 2015 model- is it still available for lease programs since it's still the same MY? Or is it for finance only?

[deemo319]

Originally Posted by YWGT3

Actually I had one. Parked my Range Rover at a shopping center awhile back. While I was heading toward the store, I couldn't help but notice the mortified expressions from some of the onlookers staring in my direction. I turned around only to find my Range Rover was going up in flames. It was beyond repair by the time the fire department arrived. Although and I am sure the quality and technology has improved in those cars, I would be more than nervous having another RR in my garage.

Although everything is covered by insurance, there's nothing that can replace one's peace of mind.

What? That is literally crazy. Thank you for the story, and you seem to have a good perspective on things.