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      12-09-2015, 12:22 PM   #133
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What does "Obamacare" mean? There were plenty of full cost insurance options before the law that they chose not to purchase and "Obamacare" implies Medicaid or a subsidy. If they aren't receiving government assistance, I don't see how the law changed anything for them, other than a minor penalty if they chose to remain underinsured. Pay me now, or pay me later has always been the deal, so why did they decide from one year to the next that their circumstances went from not worth having insurance to getting insurance (in more detail tha "Obamacare")?
Obamacare means that their existing, cheap health insurance did not qualify. So, they had to buy a better policy. Aren't these rated as "Bronze, Silver, Gold?" Theirs were, "Mud."
They could have done that anytime they wanted before the law passed. Also they could have paid the tax and didn't "need" to buy a new policy.
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      12-09-2015, 03:37 PM   #134
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They could have done that anytime they wanted before the law passed. Also they could have paid the tax and didn't "need" to buy a new policy.
Going without a decent health insurance policy at our age is out of the question. One bad illness, accident, disease or surgery could put most folks in the poor house very quickly.

I'm also on Medicare, but most of my siblings and ex-co-workers are not there yet. Also (and amazingly), one sibling completely forfeited her late husband's social security and medicare because of some bad timing on her part in terms of when to apply, plus getting remarried after he passed away. She worked so little during her life that she never became vested in the system on her own.

All this leads me to bring up something I've yet to see discussed when these topics of taxes and health insurance things come up, and that is individual financial responsibility. In other words, living within your means.

Many of my ex-co-workers about my age are, well, still working. Why? Well, it seemed obvious to me. They always had a Starbucks in their hand, went out to lunch everyday of the week, just for starters.

Many came to me frequently over the years, excitedly explaining how they just caged a "fantastic" interest rate reduction when they refinanced their home. And oh yeah... they yanked out some cash for a new car. Or a new truck. Or a new pleasure boat.

They also trashed some equity in their home and reset the mortgage clock to 30 years.

Another sad example is one of my siblings who rents a much larger home than he needs (all of his kids married and moved away years ago), so pays way more rent than necessary. Also, he and his wife dine out regularly, go to movie theaters and on and on. They just don't get it.

So, what do all of the above folks have in common? Well, I'll tell you. They are the group in my life that whine and complain the loudest about their taxes and health care costs. They live paycheck to paycheck and are always "one transmission failure" away from a financial train wreck. They save nothing and leave themselves little or no wiggle room for the unexpected.
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      12-09-2015, 04:00 PM   #135
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Going without a decent health insurance policy at our age is out of the question. One bad illness, accident, disease or surgery could put most folks in the poor house very quickly.
Ok I Agree with that statement, but it has nothing to do with "Obamacare" or the passage of legislation.

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Originally Posted by 3.0L View Post
I'm also on Medicare, but most of my siblings and ex-co-workers are not there yet. Also (and amazingly), one sibling completely forfeited her late husband's social security and medicare because of some bad timing on her part in terms of when to apply, plus getting remarried after he passed away. She worked so little during her life that she never became vested in the system on her own.

All this leads me to bring up something I've yet to see discussed when these topics of taxes and health insurance things come up, and that is individual financial responsibility. In other words, living within your means.

Many of my ex-co-workers about my age are, well, still working. Why? Well, it seemed obvious to me. They always had a Starbucks in their hand, went out to lunch everyday of the week, just for starters.

Many came to me frequently over the years, excitedly explaining how they just caged a "fantastic" interest rate reduction when they refinanced their home. And oh yeah... they yanked out some cash for a new car. Or a new truck. Or a new pleasure boat.

They also trashed some equity in their home and reset the mortgage clock to 30 years.

Another sad example is one of my siblings who rents a much larger home than he needs (all of his kids married and moved away years ago), so pays way more rent than necessary. Also, he and his wife dine out regularly, go to movie theaters and on and on. They just don't get it.

So, what do all of the above folks have in common? Well, I'll tell you. They are the group in my life that whine and complain the loudest about their taxes and health care costs. They live paycheck to paycheck and are always "one transmission failure" away from a financial train wreck. They save nothing and leave themselves little or no wiggle room for the unexpected.
Ok, I agree too many people are irresponsible, but don't see how you can project an assumption that anyone who complains about taxes and health care costs is equally irresponsible. Payroll taxes in particular are higher than they were 30 years ago and health care costs are exponentially higher than when these people were in their 30s. Whether you agree with it or not, there is some new redistribution going on from those that work hard to those that don't work, to provide access to expensive benefits with no realistic basis to expect a reduction in healthcare costs. So we don't see benefit from the legislation but are effectively underwriting it and that is infuriating to many.
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      12-10-2015, 01:37 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
They could have done that anytime they wanted before the law passed. Also they could have paid the tax and didn't "need" to buy a new policy.
Going without a decent health insurance policy at our age is out of the question. One bad illness, accident, disease or surgery could put most folks in the poor house very quickly.

I'm also on Medicare, but most of my siblings and ex-co-workers are not there yet. Also (and amazingly), one sibling completely forfeited her late husband's social security and medicare because of some bad timing on her part in terms of when to apply, plus getting remarried after he passed away. She worked so little during her life that she never became vested in the system on her own.

All this leads me to bring up something I've yet to see discussed when these topics of taxes and health insurance things come up, and that is individual financial responsibility. In other words, living within your means.

Many of my ex-co-workers about my age are, well, still working. Why? Well, it seemed obvious to me. They always had a Starbucks in their hand, went out to lunch everyday of the week, just for starters.

Many came to me frequently over the years, excitedly explaining how they just caged a "fantastic" interest rate reduction when they refinanced their home. And oh yeah... they yanked out some cash for a new car. Or a new truck. Or a new pleasure boat.

They also trashed some equity in their home and reset the mortgage clock to 30 years.

Another sad example is one of my siblings who rents a much larger home than he needs (all of his kids married and moved away years ago), so pays way more rent than necessary. Also, he and his wife dine out regularly, go to movie theaters and on and on. They just don't get it.

So, what do all of the above folks have in common? Well, I'll tell you. They are the group in my life that whine and complain the loudest about their taxes and health care costs. They live paycheck to paycheck and are always "one transmission failure" away from a financial train wreck. They save nothing and leave themselves little or no wiggle room for the unexpected.
You are on MEDICARE? So all of your previous discussion about Obamacare, and bragging that your insurance cost dropped 11% was based on your Medicare supplement plan, and not buying commercial insurance like the rest of us? Are you not aware that your comparison is completely invalid?

Jonathan Gruber (MIT Professor and the democrat's Obamacare architect) was absolutely correct when he said the passage of Obamacare was based upon "the stupidity of the American people."

And how do your friends spending habits affect their opinions about taxes? You're smug because you live a lesser lifestyle so tax increases don't affect you as much? If they lived like paupers, would that entitle them to a more values opinion?
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      12-10-2015, 02:44 PM   #137
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You are on MEDICARE? So all of your previous discussion about Obamacare, and bragging that your insurance cost dropped 11% was based on your Medicare supplement plan, and not buying commercial insurance like the rest of us? Are you not aware that your comparison is completely invalid?

Jonathan Gruber (MIT Professor and the democrat's Obamacare architect) was absolutely correct when he said the passage of Obamacare was based upon "the stupidity of the American people."

And how do your friends spending habits affect their opinions about taxes? You're smug because you live a lesser lifestyle so tax increases don't affect you as much? If they lived like paupers, would that entitle them to a more values opinion?
Typical response.

No, I'm attempting to bring real-life experiences to the table; something you fail to do. You continue to speak in generalities - basically reflecting what you hear from the hysterical talking-heads.

My private health insurance premiums went down very, very little when I went on Medicare 3 years ago. From that point, my premiums remained fairly stable until this next January, 2016 when I will see the 11% reduction.

And here's a little tidbit that you might not be aware of, Ms. Enlightenment. I still have to pay my monthly Medicare premium, just like everyone else. Our Medicare premiums never go away, even after retirement and going on Social Security. The feds take it right out of your SS check, every month. I'll bet you didn't know that.

So when you add the Medicare premium back in, I'm not getting the smoking deal that you think I am.

And I just love how you try to put words in my mouth. I never said I lived a lesser life style. I simply lived within my means, which obviously a trait that escapes you.
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      12-10-2015, 03:11 PM   #138
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This thread has nothing to do with Medicare and you can't compare Supplemental Medicare premiums to either individual or group insurance for what should be obvious reasons. Therefore your 11% decline is completely irrelevant to the discussion in this thread. The anecdotes about the people you know who stiffed others with their medical bills, while they complained about taxes and cost of healthcare, are also irrelevant to the discussion in this thread. Your also claimed these people purchased insurance due to "Obamacare" only to later say it was because of the risk of going without insurance at their age, which has always been present and has nothing to do with Obamacare.

If you want to disagree with others that's fine, but you have not added anything relevant to the actual discussion. Of course, I'm sure you won't see it that way...
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      12-10-2015, 04:05 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
You are on MEDICARE? So all of your previous discussion about Obamacare, and bragging that your insurance cost dropped 11% was based on your Medicare supplement plan, and not buying commercial insurance like the rest of us? Are you not aware that your comparison is completely invalid?

Jonathan Gruber (MIT Professor and the democrat's Obamacare architect) was absolutely correct when he said the passage of Obamacare was based upon "the stupidity of the American people."

And how do your friends spending habits affect their opinions about taxes? You're smug because you live a lesser lifestyle so tax increases don't affect you as much? If they lived like paupers, would that entitle them to a more values opinion?
Typical response.

No, I'm attempting to bring real-life experiences to the table; something you fail to do. You continue to speak in generalities - basically reflecting what you hear from the hysterical talking-heads.

My private health insurance premiums went down very, very little when I went on Medicare 3 years ago. From that point, my premiums remained fairly stable until this next January, 2016 when I will see the 11% reduction.

And here's a little tidbit that you might not be aware of, Ms. Enlightenment. I still have to pay my monthly Medicare premium, just like everyone else. Our Medicare premiums never go away, even after retirement and going on Social Security. The feds take it right out of your SS check, every month. I'll bet you didn't know that.

So when you add the Medicare premium back in, I'm not getting the smoking deal that you think I am.

And I just love how you try to put words in my mouth. I never said I lived a lesser life style. I simply lived within my means, which obviously a trait that escapes you.
I'm very familiar with how Medicare is paid for. You clearly don't get this thread or this discussion.
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      12-10-2015, 06:46 PM   #140
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It does have to do with medicare as half a trillion dollars has been taken or is earmarked for going towards paying for Obama care. The end game designed in the law is to end medicare and get retirees on Obama care.
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      12-11-2015, 10:17 AM   #141
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If obamacare were a tree...

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/l...215202744.html

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      12-11-2015, 12:14 PM   #142
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Citing the OP's original complaint, "The U.S. Healthcare system is broken," I couldn't agree more. So we keep asking, "What is the solution?"

My wife worked in the medical industry for 40 years, spending the last ~10 years in health insurance billing. Her years of dealing with a plethora of problems, including the health insurance companies habit of retrievals, I have come to the conclusion that the system has degenerated into one, huge cat fight. And there's more than 2 cats in the fight.

As many have previously noted, it seems that the health insurance has everyone over a barrel including those who purchase the premiums and the care providers who face contract negotiations.

Health insurance companies retain enormous leverage with health care providers. I'm trying to imagine a doctor or firm of doctors, facing the possibility of losing xx% of their patients if they don't play ball with health insurance company ABC. Doesn't sound like much fun.

So, they play ball. But then what? Well, the insurance billing continues... and many claims are rejected. Adjustments are made, usually downwards. I'm sure this gives the doctors a real warm fuzzy.

Not very surprisingly, the situation develops into a vicious loop with doctors coding up, plus performing every imaginable test... tests to keep profits up and of course, tests to CYA in regards to the ever possible malpractice lawsuits.

And here's a big one: Retrievals. Doctor firm bills Health Insurance Company ABC for $50,000.00 for services provided. Weeks or months later, the check arrives for only $30,000.00. Health Insurance Company ABC just retrieved $20,000.00 from past approved claims for a myriad of reasons. They sometimes go back 3 years or more.

These medical practices expect this and not too surprisingly, fight back with every charge they can squeeze in, not to mention the trend to herd us patients through their office like cattle.

In addition, the medical firm, now dinged with the example $20,000.00 turns around and bills the patient. Imagine receiving a bill for something you thought was settled months or years ago. Another warm fuzzy.

In the end, I sometimes think a possible solution is to regulate the health insurance company like the commercial airlines were decades ago. Health Insurance Companies have positioned themselves to a point where they decide your level of health care and how much it is going to cost.

I'm not much jazzed about government regulation, but in this case, perhaps it is reasonable solution.

Of course, we can probably guess who will vehemently fight the regulation.

Flame suit on.
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      12-11-2015, 03:50 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L
Citing the OP's original complaint, "The U.S. Healthcare system is broken," I couldn't agree more. So we keep asking, "What is the solution?"

My wife worked in the medical industry for 40 years, spending the last ~10 years in health insurance billing. Her years of dealing with a plethora of problems, including the health insurance companies habit of retrievals, I have come to the conclusion that the system has degenerated into one, huge cat fight. And there's more than 2 cats in the fight.

As many have previously noted, it seems that the health insurance has everyone over a barrel including those who purchase the premiums and the care providers who face contract negotiations.

Health insurance companies retain enormous leverage with health care providers. I'm trying to imagine a doctor or firm of doctors, facing the possibility of losing xx% of their patients if they don't play ball with health insurance company ABC. Doesn't sound like much fun.

So, they play ball. But then what? Well, the insurance billing continues... and many claims are rejected. Adjustments are made, usually downwards. I'm sure this gives the doctors a real warm fuzzy.

Not very surprisingly, the situation develops into a vicious loop with doctors coding up, plus performing every imaginable test... tests to keep profits up and of course, tests to CYA in regards to the ever possible malpractice lawsuits.

And here's a big one: Retrievals. Doctor firm bills Health Insurance Company ABC for $50,000.00 for services provided. Weeks or months later, the check arrives for only $30,000.00. Health Insurance Company ABC just retrieved $20,000.00 from past approved claims for a myriad of reasons. They sometimes go back 3 years or more.

These medical practices expect this and not too surprisingly, fight back with every charge they can squeeze in, not to mention the trend to herd us patients through their office like cattle.

In addition, the medical firm, now dinged with the example $20,000.00 turns around and bills the patient. Imagine receiving a bill for something you thought was settled months or years ago. Another warm fuzzy.

In the end, I sometimes think a possible solution is to regulate the health insurance company like the commercial airlines were decades ago. Health Insurance Companies have positioned themselves to a point where they decide your level of health care and how much it is going to cost.

I'm not much jazzed about government regulation, but in this case, perhaps it is reasonable solution.

Of course, we can probably guess who will vehemently fight the regulation.

Flame suit on.
Again, you clearly don't understand this market, and are encouraging more regulation. The "retrievals" you describe are done by the federal government to a far more massive scale than the commercial market - they recover billions per year from doctors and hospitals, and have for many years. They also pay providers far less than the commercial insurers. The government also forbids doctors, hospitals, etc. from comparing contracts they get from insurers; it's a violation of racketeering laws.

The government also just spent the past 6 years changing the coding system, which cost doctors and hospitals billions of dollars to overhaul their processes, as well as the commercial insurance companies. All so that the government would have more information on patients, doctors, hospitals, etc.

And that's the tip of the iceberg. Government regulation is the problem, not the solution.
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      12-12-2015, 02:34 PM   #144
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You know, this could be simplified with a single payer system.
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      12-12-2015, 06:37 PM   #145
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Again, you clearly don't understand this market, and are encouraging more regulation. The "retrievals" you describe are done by the federal government to a far more massive scale than the commercial market - they recover billions per year from doctors and hospitals, and have for many years. They also pay providers far less than the commercial insurers. The government also forbids doctors, hospitals, etc. from comparing contracts they get from insurers; it's a violation of racketeering laws.

The government also just spent the past 6 years changing the coding system, which cost doctors and hospitals billions of dollars to overhaul their processes, as well as the commercial insurance companies. All so that the government would have more information on patients, doctors, hospitals, etc.

And that's the tip of the iceberg. Government regulation is the problem, not the solution.
You assume way too much. I never suggested including any part of current regulations. But I shouldn't be surprised. You seem to look at everything through the myopic, ultra-right-tea-party lens: Bad 'ol government.

Try stepping out of your bubble for a few minutes and study what happened after the airlines were deregulated and where they are today. Think of it in terms of not only the passengers, but also the folks who work for the airlines, particularly the flight crews.
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