BMW i
Forum for the BMW i3, i4 and i8
BMW i3 BMW i8
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

  BMW i Forums > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-26-2015, 02:18 PM   #67
Mr Tonka
is probably out riding.
Mr Tonka's Avatar
United_States
5851
Rep
2,299
Posts

Drives: Something Italian
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sweatypeninsula

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Perversely i think you do. The gun culture is so ingrained that the guys doing the mass shootings are well trained, quite good shots, on most occasions anyway.

Certainly the Columbine and Sandy Hook killers seemed to be able to pick people off.

In saying that, you misunderstood the post from Nick, there's just less guns in circulation.
With my experience at gun ranges, from experience, this general statement is false. Our police who have to qualify aren't exactly accurate.

However the Columbine killers were different. They actually went into the woods to practice and thus became mildly proficient with their weapons.

The sandy hook killer just had many, innocent, non-combative, children in a very confined area.

Again, just my range experience, but even many ex-military people aren't very proficient with guns. Neither of my nephews, one in the marines, one the army could hit the broad side of a barn with a hand gun. A rifle is a different story, but most military personnel never even shoot a hand gun during their service.
__________________
"There is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of the law and in the name of justice. -Charles de Secondat"
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic59612_1.gif
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:18 PM   #68
PINeely
Lieutenant Colonel
PINeely's Avatar
United_States
968
Rep
1,892
Posts

Drives: 2013 535i, 2015 Tundra 1794
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
Don't fully agree. The UKs gun crime tends to be gang related, and often ends in murder.
Kinda proves the point that only criminals will get a hold of guns when you ban them.

BRB guys, I'm off to lunch.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:19 PM   #69
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
1301
Rep
2,355
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PINeely View Post
What kind of rate? Rate of violence versus population? Rate of change, rate of increase, rate of decline? Alfisti was not specific.
It was clear to all of us except you...
So maybe it's better you don't go there
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:19 PM   #70
Alfisti
Major
1003
Rep
1,238
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PINeely View Post
By firearm yes, but by other means no. Same for the US too, I think most homicides here are perpetrated by a blunt object.
Wrong on every account.

Homicide rate is 1.0 for UK, 4.7 for US.

Method of homicide in the states is nearly 70% with a gun. In the UK it is closer to 7%, combine this with the broader homicide rate and the pro gun argument falls to pieces from a math perspective. The violence in the UK is there but the death rate is lower, the only difference is the availability of firearms.

Last edited by Alfisti; 08-26-2015 at 02:24 PM..
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:19 PM   #71
C5driver
Major
C5driver's Avatar
3375
Rep
1,151
Posts

Drives: 55...just kidding.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: 33.6167 N, 117.8975 W

iTrader: (0)

We live in a world with risk and trying to childproof life is impossible. People will die unnecessarily, whether by accident or by evil doers. It's a fact of life.

RIP
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:21 PM   #72
Alfisti
Major
1003
Rep
1,238
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
With my experience at gun ranges, from experience, this general statement is false. Our police who have to qualify aren't exactly accurate.

However the Columbine killers were different. They actually went into the woods to practice and thus became mildly proficient with their weapons.

The sandy hook killer just had many, innocent, non-combative, children in a very confined area.

Again, just my range experience, but even many ex-military people aren't very proficient with guns. Neither of my nephews, one in the marines, one the army could hit the broad side of a barn with a hand gun. A rifle is a different story, but most military personnel never even shoot a hand gun during their service.
Sandy Hook kid had a background with guns, mummy bought them for him, was well versed in operation etc.

This gets back to the bigger picture, you immerse people with guns and they know how to use them, the avg citizen in other developed countries wouldn't know how to release the safety.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:21 PM   #73
Mr Tonka
is probably out riding.
Mr Tonka's Avatar
United_States
5851
Rep
2,299
Posts

Drives: Something Italian
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sweatypeninsula

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Not in my experience. The US hangs pretty hard right, Canadians sit centre/centre left. I'd say Australia is Canada's closest relative if you ignore sports.

Big country
Small population
Mostly useless ice or sand
Commonwealth history
High tax rates
High social security
Broad based health coverage
Tight gun laws

There's a lot in common.
Agree. If Canada wasn't cold, and had similar gun laws, i'd probably move there. Aside from sports related violence, Canadians seem to be pretty laid back.
__________________
"There is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of the law and in the name of justice. -Charles de Secondat"
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic59612_1.gif
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:26 PM   #74
Alfisti
Major
1003
Rep
1,238
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Most Americans say that until they see the tax rates.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:27 PM   #75
Mr Tonka
is probably out riding.
Mr Tonka's Avatar
United_States
5851
Rep
2,299
Posts

Drives: Something Italian
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sweatypeninsula

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Sandy Hook kid had a background with guns, mummy bought them for him, was well versed in operation etc.

This gets back to the bigger picture, you immerse people with guns and they know how to use them, the avg citizen in other developed countries wouldn't know how to release the safety.
That may be true, but an untrained monkey could have created as much devastation as the Sandy Hook bastard. Trained or untrained, anyone can be effective when shooting fish in a barrel.
__________________
"There is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of the law and in the name of justice. -Charles de Secondat"
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic59612_1.gif
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:32 PM   #76
fecurtis
Banned
United_States
3156
Rep
6,302
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Arlington, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Sandy Hook kid had a background with guns, mummy bought them for him, was well versed in operation etc.

This gets back to the bigger picture, you immerse people with guns and they know how to use them, the avg citizen in other developed countries wouldn't know how to release the safety.
I thought the guns belonged to his mother?

I do remember he reloaded constantly without really needing to, only using a fraction of bullets in the mag before dumping it for a new one.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:37 PM   #77
Shredicus
Major
Shredicus's Avatar
United_States
430
Rep
1,067
Posts

Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Spokane, WA

iTrader: (12)

The liveleak video from the shooter's gopro is pretty gnarly
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:41 PM   #78
Sara504
Lieutenant General
Sara504's Avatar
United_States
2971
Rep
17,833
Posts

Drives: 2013 335is
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bethesda, Maryland

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredicus View Post
The liveleak video from the shooter's gopro is pretty gnarly
Explain what you mean by "gnarly."
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:43 PM   #79
Mr Tonka
is probably out riding.
Mr Tonka's Avatar
United_States
5851
Rep
2,299
Posts

Drives: Something Italian
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sweatypeninsula

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara504 View Post
Explain what you mean by "gnarly."
Gnarly - Disgusting and deplorable. Possibly worthy of public execution.
__________________
"There is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of the law and in the name of justice. -Charles de Secondat"
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic59612_1.gif
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:45 PM   #80
NoSHAM3
First Lieutenant
NoSHAM3's Avatar
No_Country
68
Rep
385
Posts

Drives: a gas guzzler
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: 5252

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara504 View Post
Explain what you mean by "gnarly."
I hope he means sickening, depressing, atrocious, etc...
__________________

Suck/Squeeze/Bang/Blow
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:45 PM   #81
fecurtis
Banned
United_States
3156
Rep
6,302
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Arlington, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Most Americans say that until they see the tax rates.
Doesn't stop Americans from living in Chicago or California...

Hell, one place doesn't even have water...
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:46 PM   #82
TXSTYLE
BIGMARCUS
TXSTYLE's Avatar
United_States
4644
Rep
2,490
Posts

Drives: F01 & F15 / Mineral White
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The GYM! (The Burbs - N TX)

iTrader: (0)

Former LEO here.
Current CCL here.
I understand the Constitution and many other laws of the land VERY well.

Gun Laws and Ease of Access to Firearms in the U.S. needs to be seriously addressed... Period.

I have very close friends who are local swat. We hang out, work out etc. They are adamant that guns are far too plentiful and always manage to get in the hands of the wrong people. I agree. What is the solution? THAT is the very difficult BUT certainly needs to be addressed BIGTIME question.
__________________
https://i.imgur.com/QAMZNzQ.jpg
Appreciate 1
      08-26-2015, 02:46 PM   #83
fecurtis
Banned
United_States
3156
Rep
6,302
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Arlington, VA

iTrader: (0)

In slang terms "gnarly" could also mean extreme.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:47 PM   #84
fecurtis
Banned
United_States
3156
Rep
6,302
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Arlington, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post
Former LEO here.
Current CCL here.
I understand the Constitution and many other laws of the land VERY well.

Gun Laws and Ease of Access to Firearms in the U.S. needs to be seriously addressed... Period.

I have very close friends who are local swat. We hang out, work out etc. They are adamant that guns are far too plentiful and always manage to get in the hands of the wrong people. I agree. What is the solution? THAT is the very difficult BUT certainly needs to be addressed BIGTIME question.
I bet they would think that, they're the ones who put their asses on the line whenever shit like this happens.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:48 PM   #85
TXSTYLE
BIGMARCUS
TXSTYLE's Avatar
United_States
4644
Rep
2,490
Posts

Drives: F01 & F15 / Mineral White
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The GYM! (The Burbs - N TX)

iTrader: (0)

If you can't, won't or refuse to even acknowledge that much, you are oblivious.
__________________
https://i.imgur.com/QAMZNzQ.jpg
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:49 PM   #86
Sara504
Lieutenant General
Sara504's Avatar
United_States
2971
Rep
17,833
Posts

Drives: 2013 335is
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bethesda, Maryland

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Gnarly - Disgusting and deplorable. Possibly worthy of public execution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSHAM3 View Post
I hope he means sickening, depressing, atrocious, etc...
I hope so too.....however it also can be used as "cool" or "awesome." People are sick.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2015, 02:51 PM   #87
ASBSECU E93
Know's a guy that know's a guy...
ASBSECU E93's Avatar
5370
Rep
1,856
Posts

Drives: 2010 335d; 2008 135i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

iTrader: (5)

Read many of these posts and stats...IMO...If a person is willing to sacrifice their life to take another - regardless of the choice of weapon, then it is almost impossible to stop the act...

In this instance, it was perpetrated by a lone gunman on completely unsuspecting victims...but the fact remains that a random act of violence can happen anywhere, and with any weapon...not just a gun. The gunman had no prior background history that would legally prohibit acquiring a firearm either.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
She stood there. Pointed a finger at me and laughed at me. That damn bitch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.
Appreciate 1
      08-26-2015, 02:51 PM   #88
Alfisti
Major
1003
Rep
1,238
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Doesn't stop Americans from living in Chicago or California...

Hell, one place doesn't even have water...
There's no comparing the net tax rate of California or Chicago with that of Canada. It's not even close.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:45 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST