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      10-15-2015, 06:26 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
I have a problem with your statement... Why would an Atheist start believing in God all of the sudden when he is confronted with a life threatening situation?
Because people do.

Yes a card carrying 100% atheist likely won't.

However, a lot of atheists I have met also say stuff connected with superstitions. Which is barking mad.


People that have never mentioned anything religious start crossing themselves etc when in life threatening situations etc.

I guess it's one of those things unless you are or have been in that position, then you know nothing about it.

Same if a loved one is in danger, or suffering etc.


I don't see why it's hard to understand.

The same works the other way, when someone in to religion suffers a major tragedy, they may suddenly question they faith and stop believing.

It's amazing thing being human, we can change our minds.
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      10-15-2015, 08:21 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by tony20009
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Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
There are no atheists in foxholes..


It's amazing how quick people get faith when the poo comes in...


There's no limit to the fictions people will adopt when they are desperate. And, quite frankly, unless one is alone or just arrived in the hole, it's all but certain that at least some of the dead guys already there prayed to God, and to what end....

All the best.
Uhhhhh - maybe that when they died they went to heaven, to be with God - rather than be separated in eternal damnation?
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      10-16-2015, 07:12 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Because people do.

Yes a card carrying 100% atheist likely won't.

However, a lot of atheists I have met also say stuff connected with superstitions. Which is barking mad.


People that have never mentioned anything religious start crossing themselves etc when in life threatening situations etc.
Maybe they don't practice religion and that is why they haven't said anything religious, that does not mean they are Atheists. Most people have left religion but they still believe in something.

A true Atheist would actually take the situation as a confirmation that a loving/passionate God does not exist.



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Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Same if a loved one is in danger, or suffering etc.


I don't see why it's hard to understand.

The same works the other way, when someone in to religion suffers a major tragedy, they may suddenly question they faith and stop believing.

It's amazing thing being human, we can change our minds.
Agree... We try to make sense of everything, so exhausting.
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      10-16-2015, 07:15 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Uhhhhh - maybe that when they died they went to heaven, to be with God - rather than be separated in eternal damnation?
When you die you don't go to heaven. Heaven is not opened until judgement day.
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      10-16-2015, 06:29 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by KlausPA
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Uhhhhh - maybe that when they died they went to heaven, to be with God - rather than be separated in eternal damnation?
When you die you don't go to heaven. Heaven is not opened until judgement day.
You are assuming God is bound by time.

I thought you were an atheist?
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      10-16-2015, 06:50 PM   #94
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How many religion threads does Tony have at this point?
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      10-17-2015, 03:27 AM   #95
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There is the Pray Test, usually upsets Atheists....

Invariably brings out alsorts of excuses.
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      10-19-2015, 07:38 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw
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Originally Posted by KlausPA
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Uhhhhh - maybe that when they died they went to heaven, to be with God - rather than be separated in eternal damnation?
When you die you don't go to heaven. Heaven is not opened until judgement day.
You are assuming God is bound by time.

I thought you were an atheist?
Why wouldn't he? he is the one that came up with judgement day.

I am an Atheist, that doesn't mean I don't know religion.
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      10-19-2015, 07:43 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand
There is the Pray Test, usually upsets Atheists....

Invariably brings out alsorts of excuses.
after so many years of being an Atheist I've never felt the need to pray when I'm in a bad spot in my life, to the opposite... it makes me realize how responsible I am for my own future and choices.
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      10-19-2015, 04:53 PM   #98
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after so many years of being an Atheist I've never felt the need to pray when I'm in a bad spot in my life, to the opposite... it makes me realize how responsible I am for my own future and choices.
Okay.

The Pray test is very simple.

Usually you have an Atheist say it out loud.

I guess on here it's a case of the Atheis typing out the following.


'I pray that something horrendous happens to my family'


A very simple statement and solely relies on faith, something an atheist does not believe in.

So, on you (and other Atheists) go....


Note, it is the word Pray and not Hope, as they have different connotations.
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      10-19-2015, 07:10 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Okay.

The Pray test is very simple.

Usually you have an Atheist say it out loud.

I guess on here it's a case of the Atheis typing out the following.


'I pray that something horrendous happens to my family'


A very simple statement and solely relies on faith, something an atheist does not believe in.

So, on you (and other Atheists) go....


Note, it is the word Pray and not Hope, as they have different connotations.

'I pray that something horrendous happens to my family'

My turn now... I want you to drive @ 100 mph straight into a wall but before you hit it I want you to pray as hard as you can.

Let me know if prayer works.
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      10-19-2015, 08:20 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
'I pray that something horrendous happens to my family'

My turn now... I want you to drive @ 100 mph straight into a wall but before you hit it I want you to pray as hard as you can.

Let me know if prayer works.
Lol, no need to ask for horrendous diabolical outcomes or driving into walls @ 100 mph (though if you hit 88 mph you may go back to the future!)

The prayer is simple.

God, if you're there, come into my life, if you're not, I guess you won't...
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      10-20-2015, 02:27 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
'I pray that something horrendous happens to my family'

My turn now... I want you to drive @ 100 mph straight into a wall but before you hit it I want you to pray as hard as you can.

Let me know if prayer works.
At no point in this thread have I said I believe one way or the other.

As an engineer with about 30 years service in the armed forces, I am rather open to everything.


So as an engineer I would ensure it was either a polystyrene wall or vehicle was armoured and equipped with a ram.

I just always find it humorous, whether it is an Xbox v PS4 fan boy forum, anti gun v pro gun threads.

Too many people think in black and white, no middle ground.

You believe in God, then it must be our God, our religion.

You are an atheist, then only our atheism is real.

So if anything I am more Stoic, with an under flow of Celtic beliefs.


However, it's amazing how many atheists won't tempt fate (that great scientific entity) by saying typing that.
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      11-14-2015, 01:11 PM   #102
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Let me start by saying I didn't read all 5 pages. I usually don't come to this area of OT.

But all this talk about god and how can something come from nothing or how can this be or that happen etc always makes me think of the same thing. We just ASSUME we are the smartest sobs in the universe.

Imagine trying to explain physics to an ant, hell imagine trying to explain it to a chimp. It doesn't matter if you find the smartest chimp ever born, the Einstein of chimps, they just will not get it. They simply do not have the brain capacity to understand that.

So what makes us think we are so different from ants or chimps and our little human brains simply cannot comprehend some of the mystery's of the universe. Maybe the concept of something from nothing is as incomprehensible to us as physics is to a chimp. However that does not make it any less real.
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      11-16-2015, 09:57 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
Let me start by saying I didn't read all 5 pages. I usually don't come to this area of OT.

But all this talk about god and how can something come from nothing or how can this be or that happen etc always makes me think of the same thing. We just ASSUME we are the smartest sobs in the universe.

Imagine trying to explain physics to an ant, hell imagine trying to explain it to a chimp. It doesn't matter if you find the smartest chimp ever born, the Einstein of chimps, they just will not get it. They simply do not have the brain capacity to understand that.

So what makes us think we are so different from ants or chimps and our little human brains simply cannot comprehend some of the mystery's of the universe. Maybe the concept of something from nothing is as incomprehensible to us as physics is to a chimp. However that does not make it any less real.
Chimps and ants do not yearn for knowledge and the need to figure stuff out, humans do.
We have no one who can explain the mysteries of the universe, some people assume God did it and are happy with that/move on with their lives. Some people are not satisfied and through trial and error find a way to justify the universe.

You are correct, chimps won't get it... But humans do. We are closer to finding out than ever before, and the next generation will get even closer, and the generation after that, and so on... Old beliefs will get vanished by the power of knowledge and discovery, God will no longer be the answer to everything.

Welcome to evolution bro.
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      11-16-2015, 05:40 PM   #104
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What is at the end of the proverbial atheist rainbow? What is it we are waiting to find out with the assumption that there was no planner, designer or creator to this universe? That WE are the answer to ourselves? That we just have to be smarter and figure it out? Smh…

With that assumption in mind, the universe has been around for billions of years waiting to be noticed but completely unaware of itself, how it is evolving or even why. Then we show up billions of years later completely ignorant and unable to explain anything, yet we are at the top of the food chain as far as we know it and are hoping and reaching for the answer as to 1) why we exist and 2) who created us and 3) to what purpose we have been created. But, oh yeah, we can’t answer the last two questions because they are no longer valid based on our assumption because we didn’t need a creator… We are the result of a mindless process...

Sorry, I don’t like evolution…

God did it and I am happy with that, not because it’s some mental assumption based on simple ideas, but because I have a relationship with the one who calls himself God coupled with those ideas.

Just look around us, the human race is not improving, if anything we are PROVING over and over how selfish, arrogant and unloving we can be regardless of any facts we may learn from subatomic particles in a collider, trips to the moon or quantum physics.

The world needs love. God is love (1 John 4:8)
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      11-16-2015, 06:12 PM   #105
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One of the things about Christians I have a problem with is that they always think "I believe in God" and of course that God is the Christian God. There are tons of religions out there that believe in a God. So maybe God exists but it isn't the Christian God?

There are also religions that do not believe in a God but believe in self enlightenment and finding the answer themselves (Buddhism). And there's many levels of Atheists as well. There's ones that totally discount any religion, others who are open to religion and others who are former Christians or other religious groups.

So to "prove God", you need to say which God you are proving and to whom you are trying to prove to.

I'm personally nontheist so I don't really care about whether God exists. It has no bearing on my life.
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      11-16-2015, 09:26 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausPA View Post
Chimps and ants do not yearn for knowledge and the need to figure stuff out, humans do.
We have no one who can explain the mysteries of the universe, some people assume God did it and are happy with that/move on with their lives. Some people are not satisfied and through trial and error find a way to justify the universe.

You are correct, chimps won't get it... But humans do. We are closer to finding out than ever before, and the next generation will get even closer, and the generation after that, and so on... Old beliefs will get vanished by the power of knowledge and discovery, God will no longer be the answer to everything.

Welcome to evolution bro.
Sorry bro, but it seems my point flew past your head. Keep on trucking though.
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      11-17-2015, 12:14 PM   #107
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Sorry bro, but it seems my point flew past your head. Keep on trucking though.
I have no doubt... Your post threw me off when you said "Imagine trying to explain physics to an ant", I must confess that my imagination is not that vivid anymore.

Why don't you try to explain it again then?

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      11-17-2015, 12:32 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by 1smokehouse View Post
What is at the end of the proverbial atheist rainbow? What is it we are waiting to find out with the assumption that there was no planner, designer or creator to this universe? That WE are the answer to ourselves? That we just have to be smarter and figure it out? Smh…
There is no rainbow or final conclusion to being an Atheist. To me Atheism is the conclusion, it is not a way of life or a condition. I'm not waiting find out out there's no planner, designer or creator, I just want answers based on science and facts, tangible proof of why and how things came to be. I don't stop at "God did it".

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1smokehouse View Post
With that assumption in mind, the universe has been around for billions of years waiting to be noticed but completely unaware of itself, how it is evolving or even why. Then we show up billions of years later completely ignorant and unable to explain anything, yet we are at the top of the food chain as far as we know it and are hoping and reaching for the answer as to 1) why we exist and 2) who created us and 3) to what purpose we have been created. But, oh yeah, we can’t answer the last two questions because they are no longer valid based on our assumption because we didn’t need a creator… We are the result of a mindless process...

Sorry, I don’t like evolution…
We have always been here, just as different species. I'm sure you went to high school and paid attention to your science teacher. We are a product of billions of years of constant change and adaptation. You and I are a blip on the Evolution process.

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Originally Posted by 1smokehouse View Post
God did it and I am happy with that, not because it’s some mental assumption based on simple ideas, but because I have a relationship with the one who calls himself God coupled with those ideas.
If that makes you happy and doesn't affect or impose on other people's lives then go for it... We need more happy people around.

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Originally Posted by 1smokehouse View Post
Just look around us, the human race is not improving, if anything we are PROVING over and over how selfish, arrogant and unloving we can be regardless of any facts we may learn from subatomic particles in a collider, trips to the moon or quantum physics.
What the heck are you talking about??? We have managed to cure diseases, to live longer than ever before, we don't kill each other like in the middle age, we have evolved to become a more sensitive society where tolerance is pinnacle, the world poverty index has gone down, etc, etc, etc... Wake up man, we are making progress.

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The world needs love. God is love (1 John 4:8)
Happy shall He be, who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock. (Psalms 137:9)
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      11-17-2015, 01:17 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausPA
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1smokehouse View Post
What is at the end of the proverbial atheist rainbow? What is it we are waiting to find out with the assumption that there was no planner, designer or creator to this universe? That WE are the answer to ourselves? That we just have to be smarter and figure it out? Smh…
There is no rainbow or final conclusion to being an Atheist. To me Atheism is the conclusion, it is not a way of life or a condition. I'm not waiting find out out there's no planner, designer or creator, I just want answers based on science and facts, tangible proof of why and how things came to be. I don't stop at "God did it".

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1smokehouse View Post
With that assumption in mind, the universe has been around for billions of years waiting to be noticed but completely unaware of itself, how it is evolving or even why. Then we show up billions of years later completely ignorant and unable to explain anything, yet we are at the top of the food chain as far as we know it and are hoping and reaching for the answer as to 1) why we exist and 2) who created us and 3) to what purpose we have been created. But, oh yeah, we can’t answer the last two questions because they are no longer valid based on our assumption because we didn’t need a creator… We are the result of a mindless process...

Sorry, I don’t like evolution…
We have always been here, just as different species. I'm sure you went to high school and paid attention to your science teacher. We are a product of billions of years of constant change and adaptation. You and I are a blip on the Evolution process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1smokehouse View Post
God did it and I am happy with that, not because it’s some mental assumption based on simple ideas, but because I have a relationship with the one who calls himself God coupled with those ideas.
If that makes you happy and doesn't affect or impose on other people's lives then go for it... We need more happy people around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1smokehouse View Post
Just look around us, the human race is not improving, if anything we are PROVING over and over how selfish, arrogant and unloving we can be regardless of any facts we may learn from subatomic particles in a collider, trips to the moon or quantum physics.
What the heck are you talking about??? We have managed to cure diseases, to live longer than ever before, we don't kill each other like in the middle age, we have evolved to become a more sensitive society where tolerance is pinnacle, the world poverty index has gone down, etc, etc, etc... Wake up man, we are making progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1smokehouse View Post
The world needs love. God is love (1 John 4:8)
Happy shall He be, who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock. (Psalms 137:9)
Your Psalms quote appears to be taken out of context. You need to read the entire chapter - it's someone who really hates his captors - not an instruction from God.
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      11-17-2015, 03:57 PM   #110
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I have no doubt... Your post threw me off when you said "Imagine trying to explain physics to an ant", I must confess that my imagination is not that vivid anymore.

Why don't you try to explain it again then?
My point is we may never be able to know certain things like an ant no matter how smart simply cannot know about physics or the fact that they live on a planet that is out in space etc.

Yes we are much smarter than an ant and we discover new stuff all the time. I am in no way saying we shouldn't keep doing this. However our knowledge may be physically limited by factors that we cannot even understand.

So I guess what I am basically saying is we may be to God, Aliens, The Universe etc what ants are to us and thus no matter how smart or technologically advanced we are we may never be able to full understand all the mysteries of the universe.
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