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      12-05-2015, 11:30 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Again, How is this different from before?
I DK how your Ins. plan worked but I didn't pick up the first $3500 of coverage...now I do. That's a lot of $$$...

IN this situation, if you have $$$ all good, doesn't matter,... broke...same thing..tax payers sick up the tab. Sweet....
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      12-05-2015, 11:36 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Taxpayers were not picking up the insurance tab for people making up to $100k/yr at all.
Taxpayers were picking up the tab for the unisured and those who were lower income. This law changes that by requiring everyone to carry insurance so the cost rise slower and everyone is picking up some of the cost. That's how insurance works.

So one more time, how is this different than what we had before?
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      12-06-2015, 12:39 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Taxpayers were picking up the tab for the unisured and those who were lower income. This law changes that by requiring everyone to carry insurance so the cost rise slower and everyone is picking up some of the cost. That's how insurance works.

So one more time, how is this different than what we had before?
1 Tax payers were paying on for emergency and urgent care, not full boat policies.
2 tax payer subsidies are given to people making way more than what hospitals used to write off
3. Costs of Healthcare have and will rise dramatically faster for everyone now with higher deductibles, worse care, and less choice.
4 insurers are fleeing this now and are loosing tons of money
5 the plan is financially past the point of no return and without substantial higher amounts of tax money it will die on the vine
6 there are countless better ways to do this and the next president will repeal it and replace. Hopefully a Republican one. Paul Ryan is putting together the new plan as we speak.
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      12-06-2015, 12:12 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Taxpayers were not picking up the insurance tab for people making up to $100k/yr at all.
Taxpayers were picking up the tab for the unisured and those who were lower income. This law changes that by requiring everyone to carry insurance so the cost rise slower and everyone is picking up some of the cost. That's how insurance works.

So one more time, how is this different than what we had before?
And again, taxpayers were not picking up that tab. If you make, let's say, $30-100k/yr and go without insurance, then there is no premium paid. If you got sick and went to a hospital, they must provide care, but would come after you for payment. And if you make that much money, you would pay or have your credit ruined. Under Obamacare, you can get insurance and taxpayers pay for some/all of the premiums.
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      12-06-2015, 12:20 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
And again, taxpayers were not picking up that tab. If you make, let's say, $30-100k/yr and go without insurance, then there is no premium paid. If you got sick and went to a hospital, they must provide care, but would come after you for payment. And if you make that much money, you would pay or have your credit ruined. Under Obamacare, you can get insurance and taxpayers pay for some/all of the premiums.
Because if you didn't pay before someone (taxpayers) picked up the tab. Now we are encouraging everyone to carry Health Insurance and push them towards cheaper preventative care instead of emergency rooms which cost significantly more.

So if you couldn't pay before and can't pay now, what's the difference?

This system is no different than before (in that sense) and everyone knows it, but bitch more, it's hilarious.
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      12-06-2015, 12:55 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Because if you didn't pay before someone (taxpayers) picked up the tab. Now we are encouraging everyone to carry Health Insurance and push them towards cheaper preventative care instead of emergency rooms which cost significantly more.

So if you couldn't pay before and can't pay now, what's the difference?

This system is no different than before (in that sense) and everyone knows it, but bitch more, it's hilarious.
Full boat insurance is not cheaper than before. And what you think really doesn't matter. It's already DOA and won't last more than a few years because it is way more expensive for everyone than prior system, is undersubscribed, insurance carriers are leaving, and under funded. It is collapsing in on itself and will be dead without doubling money being thrown down the toilet already.
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      12-06-2015, 01:07 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Because if you didn't pay before someone (taxpayers) picked up the tab. Now we are encouraging everyone to carry Health Insurance and push them towards cheaper preventative care instead of emergency rooms which cost significantly more.

So if you couldn't pay before and can't pay now, what's the difference?

This system is no different than before (in that sense) and everyone knows it, but bitch more, it's hilarious.
Full boat insurance is not cheaper than before. And what you think really doesn't matter. It's already DOA and won't last more than a few years because it is way more expensive for everyone than prior system, is undersubscribed, insurance carriers are leaving, and under funded. It is collapsing in on itself and will be dead without doubling money being thrown down the toilet already.
Good. I'm all for a single payer system.
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      12-06-2015, 01:53 PM   #74
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Good. I'm all for a single payer system.
Like in Europe which costs closer to double what we spend now or in the past? Yay socialism.
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      12-06-2015, 01:58 PM   #75
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And before you say it, yes we spend more already. But that's because we get better Healthcare. If we want to maintain the same level of health care and go single payer, cost will go up dramatically. Why does the United States spend so much more? The biggest reason is that U.S. healthcare delivers a more expensive mix of services. For example, a much larger proportion of physician visits in the U.S. are to specialists who get higher fees and usually order more high-tech diagnostic and therapeutic procedures than primary care physicians.



Compared with the average OECD country, the U.S. delivers (population adjusted) almost three times as many mammograms, two-and-a-half times the number of MRI scans, and 31 percent more C-sections. Also, the U.S. has more stand-by equipment, for example, 1.66 MRI machines per 6,000 annual scans vs. 1.06 machines. The extra machines provide easier access for Americans, but add to cost. Similarly, occupancy rates in U.S. acute care hospitals are much lower than in OECD countries, reducing the likelihood of delays in admissions, but building that extra capacity adds to cost. Aggressive treatment of very sick elderly also makes the mix expensive. In the U.S. many elderly patients are treated in intensive care units (ICUs), but in other countries they would receive only palliative care. More amenities such as privacy and space in hospitals and more attractive clinics also add to U.S. costs.
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      12-06-2015, 02:05 PM   #76
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Good. I'm all for a single payer system.
Like in Europe which costs closer to double what we spend now or in the past? Yay socialism.
Europe as a whole spends less on healthcare than America does.

Also, I would lose my job.
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      12-06-2015, 03:02 PM   #77
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Europe as a whole spends less on healthcare than America does.

Also, I would lose my job.
Because they get less care and lower quality of care by far. See my post above.

Doctors hate it too. 2 to 1. Get with the program. http://www.healthline.com/health-new...amacare-041415
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      12-06-2015, 07:47 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
And again, taxpayers were not picking up that tab. If you make, let's say, $30-100k/yr and go without insurance, then there is no premium paid. If you got sick and went to a hospital, they must provide care, but would come after you for payment. And if you make that much money, you would pay or have your credit ruined. Under Obamacare, you can get insurance and taxpayers pay for some/all of the premiums.
Because if you didn't pay before someone (taxpayers) picked up the tab. Now we are encouraging everyone to carry Health Insurance and push them towards cheaper preventative care instead of emergency rooms which cost significantly more.

So if you couldn't pay before and can't pay now, what's the difference?

This system is no different than before (in that sense) and everyone knows it, but bitch more, it's hilarious.
I must not be making my point - people who chose not to have insurance but still make $100k/ yr were indeed paying if they had a health event - they weren't a drain on society. Now, under Obamacare, they get taxpayer-funded insurance, which the rest of us are paying for.
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      12-07-2015, 07:12 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I must not be making my point - people who chose not to have insurance but still make $100k/ yr were indeed paying if they had a health event - they weren't a drain on society. Now, under Obamacare, they get taxpayer-funded insurance, which the rest of us are paying for.
Because you make 100k a year doesn't mean you could pay 50k or 100k insurance bills. But I wasn't aware that they got subsidies, have a link to that?
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      12-07-2015, 07:47 AM   #80
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Because you make 100k a year doesn't mean you could pay 50k or 100k insurance bills. But I wasn't aware that they got subsidies, have a link to that?
Look at the chart. You can qualify for subsidies up the $95k a year for a family if 4. Over 120k for family of 6.

http://rootofgood.com/affordable-care-act-subsidy/
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      12-07-2015, 07:50 AM   #81
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http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/01/ob...an-feds-claim/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/201...it_316586.html
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      12-07-2015, 08:00 AM   #82
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Here's us Axiom

In Florida, for instance, United Healthcare (UNH) wants to raise the rates of plans sold on the Obamacare exchange by an average of 18%. Individual policies available outside the exchange through United Healthcare or through a broker would go up by 31%, on average, with hikes as high as 60% for certain plans in certain locations.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/02/news...amacare-rates/
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      12-07-2015, 08:25 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Because you make 100k a year doesn't mean you could pay 50k or 100k insurance bills. But I wasn't aware that they got subsidies, have a link to that?
Look at the chart. You can qualify for subsidies up the $95k a year for a family if 4. Over 120k for family of 6.

http://rootofgood.com/affordable-care-act-subsidy/
Odd -here it says you have to buy at full price if you make over 4x,xxx as an individual in Fl.

https://www.healthcare.gov/lower-cos...r-lower-costs/
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      12-07-2015, 08:36 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Because you make 100k a year doesn't mean you could pay 50k or 100k insurance bills. But I wasn't aware that they got subsidies, have a link to that?
Look at the chart. You can qualify for subsidies up the $95k a year for a family if 4. Over 120k for family of 6.

http://rootofgood.com/affordable-care-act-subsidy/
Odd -here it says you have to buy at full price if you make over 4x,xxx as an individual in Fl.

https://www.healthcare.gov/lower-cos...r-lower-costs/
That's because Florida wisely chose not to accept the Obamacare expansion of Medicaid.
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      12-07-2015, 08:36 AM   #85
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Odd -here it says you have to buy at full price if you make over 4x,xxx as an individual in Fl.

https://www.healthcare.gov/lower-cos...r-lower-costs/
From that site, family of 4, Florida. You were saying?

$60,626 and $97,000:

You qualify for a Marketplace health plan with lower monthly premiums.
You can apply and enroll for 2016 coverage right now. You can also preview 2016 plans. When you do, you'll see how much you'll pay for each available plan based on your income.
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      12-07-2015, 08:37 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Odd -here it says you have to buy at full price if you make over 4x,xxx as an individual in Fl.

https://www.healthcare.gov/lower-cos...r-lower-costs/
From that site, family of 4, Florida

$60,626 and $97,000:

You qualify for a Marketplace health plan with lower monthly premiums.
You can apply and enroll for 2016 coverage right now. You can also preview 2016 plans. When you do, you'll see how much you'll pay for each available plan based on your income.
You keep bringing up families and I'm talking about individuals. Why?
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      12-07-2015, 08:40 AM   #87
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Quote:
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You keep bringing up families and I'm talking about individuals. Why?
Because everything typically is benchmarked off of families which makes up the vast majority of the population. Ex, average family income is down by $4,000 under Obama. First president in the history of the country that lowered this number from when he started his presidency to when he finished it. Guess a few of us still like to get married and have a couple rug rats.
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      12-07-2015, 09:08 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
You keep bringing up families and I'm talking about individuals. Why?
Because everything typically is benchmarked off of families which makes up the vast majority of the population. Ex, average family income is down by $4,000 under Obama. First president in the history of the country that lowered this number from when he started his presidency to when he finished it. Guess a few of us still like to get married and have a couple rug rats.
He apparently still doesn't understand the difference between group plans and individual plans and seems to think the word "individual" means one person in every context vs. the type of plan. He probably thinks individual plans are for one person and group plans are for families. Debates with him are circular and go nowhere, which is why I ignore him.
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