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      08-11-2019, 08:50 AM   #2245
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Fanboyism at its finest...

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      08-11-2019, 11:34 AM   #2246
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      08-13-2019, 08:39 AM   #2247
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Jeffrey Epstein and Elon Musk?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/b...interview.html

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...s-new-chairman
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      08-13-2019, 02:13 PM   #2248
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its funny how so many people talk down people who change the world. he is taking risks.. so what if he goes under.. at least he tried.. he paid back money borrowed and if you think any business will survive without spending money your nuts.. just like everyone makes fun or insults bitcoin.. and now its worth 13k and people who bought in 2012 or even 2017 like myself are laughin to the bank. change scares some people i guess

Last edited by seansurfn2; 08-13-2019 at 02:24 PM..
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      08-14-2019, 07:57 AM   #2249
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Tesla owner implants RDIF chip in her arm to open and start her car

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      08-14-2019, 11:40 AM   #2250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
BMW has its hands full trying to compete against the money losing Tesla brand. After all how does a company compete against a competitor where profit isn't a concern for its investors?
This a very real issue for any legacy business vs a "tech" start up whose investors allow to burn money, I think Amazon is a perfect example of a business that was supported by investors whilst burning cash that legacy retailers just couldn't compete against, but when the market thinks you're all washed up they won't throw you a line.

Google/Amazon/FB have been very clever in buying up anyone around them before they got to big to threaten them in their own arena to stop that happening to themselves IMHO.

The big 3 German brands have thrown billions into EVs though and so far failed to match Tesla in product line and sales as they are caught between two stools. I'd love to know what their market research tells them about their current customer base and their appetite for an EV and whether they can steal customers from Tesla. Personally I won't buy a Tesla but I would buy a BMW EV but only once they are priced sensibly with a decent 350mile range and there is a charging network to support the cars.

I would add that the interiors of the Tesla cars puts me off the most I don't want a huge tablet and no buttons, I want a normal interior like a BMW I just hope they produce a normal car with BMW styling and interior but EV rather than ICE I don't think there is a need to ape Tesla interiors.

I often think back to Kodak at these moments (excuse the pun) as it's a classic example of what not to do when an industry changes.
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Last edited by Wills2; 08-14-2019 at 11:49 AM..
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      08-14-2019, 11:42 AM   #2251
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      08-14-2019, 08:27 PM   #2252
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That guy should go buy a lotto ticket.
His second life just started.
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      08-14-2019, 09:28 PM   #2253
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Curious to know what the backstory is on these:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...-i-80-nevada-0
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      08-15-2019, 11:14 AM   #2254
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What's missing from modern BMWs is the suspension magic that combined great handing with a civilized ride.

At one time BMW did suspensions better than any other manufacturer. The playing field is more even now, and BMW has lost some of its mojo in that area.

One of BMW's main suspension gurus left for Audi a few years back and did great things over there. Unfortunately, he resigned shortly after the "Dieselgate" investigation really ramped up.
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      08-15-2019, 04:56 PM   #2255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
What's missing from modern BMWs is the suspension magic that combined great handing with a civilized ride.

At one time BMW did suspensions better than any other manufacturer. The playing field is more even now, and BMW has lost some of its mojo in that area.

One of BMW's main suspension gurus left for Audi a few years back and did great things over there. Unfortunately, he resigned shortly after the "Dieselgate" investigation really ramped up.
This is exactly what a lot of people new to BMW do not realize. Anyone can have a rock hard suspension and super sticky tires and post great grip. The magic was in the balance. The balance is lost, and not because BMW doesn't want to know how to do this, but because they want to be more like Benz and appeal to the masses. The masses look at stats and see gee it has a great 0-60 or skidpad rating or stopping distance and believe that it must be a great performance car.

As for car reviewers being biased, yes some are - C&D and CR is all pay to play IMHO, whereas MT, TG are a bit more balanced.

Which is why I urge everyone to go and test drive as many competing car models as possible and make up their own minds.
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      08-16-2019, 01:49 PM   #2256
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https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...spute-11816280
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      08-18-2019, 07:04 AM   #2257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
This a very real issue for any legacy business vs a "tech" start up whose investors allow to burn money, I think Amazon is a perfect example of a business that was supported by investors whilst burning cash that legacy retailers just couldn't compete against, but when the market thinks you're all washed up they won't throw you a line.

Google/Amazon/FB have been very clever in buying up anyone around them before they got to big to threaten them in their own arena to stop that happening to themselves IMHO.

The big 3 German brands have thrown billions into EVs though and so far failed to match Tesla in product line and sales as they are caught between two stools. I'd love to know what their market research tells them about their current customer base and their appetite for an EV and whether they can steal customers from Tesla. Personally I won't buy a Tesla but I would buy a BMW EV but only once they are priced sensibly with a decent 350mile range and there is a charging network to support the cars.

I would add that the interiors of the Tesla cars puts me off the most I don't want a huge tablet and no buttons, I want a normal interior like a BMW I just hope they produce a normal car with BMW styling and interior but EV rather than ICE I don't think there is a need to ape Tesla interiors.

I often think back to Kodak at these moments (excuse the pun) as it's a classic example of what not to do when an industry changes.
No offense, but I think that is most people. A reasonably priced EV with 350 miles of range and a nation-wide network plethora recharging stations (for a 15-minute recharge) is already available, It is called "a car"; just the combustion process is different...

The interior is what is keeping me from considering the Model 3; well that and the hideous front bumper facia. The tablet is just not a good solution. Tech weenies can deal with the gauge-less cockpit, but car people can't. The Model three has too much tech for me. While it's commendable that Tesla is trying to improve situational awareness for the driver, I find it too distracting. A car set up with good mirrors and a driver taught how to properly use them is a much better control situation. BMW used to believe in that axiom.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 08-18-2019 at 07:12 AM..
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      08-18-2019, 10:45 PM   #2258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ras550 View Post
The masses look at stats and see gee it has a great 0-60 or skidpad rating or stopping distance and believe that it must be a great performance car.
Honestly, that sounds exactly like so many Tesla fans on forums/comment boxes these days. "But the Model 3 does 0-60 in 3.x seconds!!!!!"

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      08-18-2019, 10:57 PM   #2259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCtennis3811 View Post
Honestly, that sounds exactly like so many Tesla fans on forums/comment boxes these days. "But the Model 3 does 0-60 in 3.x seconds!!!!!"

That's a pretty fair statement...I'm on the opposite, and honestly equally obnoxious, end where all I look at is Nurburgring times because I've done a decent amount of time there and have a basic feeling of what a given time means. Equally ridiculous benchmark, but useful to me nonetheless.
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      08-19-2019, 12:51 PM   #2260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F82PRETEND View Post
That's a pretty fair statement...I'm on the opposite, and honestly equally obnoxious, end where all I look at is Nurburgring times because I've done a decent amount of time there and have a basic feeling of what a given time means. Equally ridiculous benchmark, but useful to me nonetheless.
Agreed with both - both metrics are partly ridiculous, but do show case the cars' technical capabilities.

Most people on Tesla forums are not enthusiasts. You can put the car in chill mode and set steering to comfort and it becomes easy enough to drive for the regular Accord driver.

And then you have a small group of enthusiasts there - you can find threads on former current Porsche owners who come from 911 CS/Cayman S and have never looked back.

There's a reason Porsche has jumped on the EV bandwagon, and more seriously than Audi/Jag/Benz - it's because they see where the performance car market is going and they can't risk being left behind.
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      08-19-2019, 06:37 PM   #2261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ras550 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F82PRETEND View Post
That's a pretty fair statement...I'm on the opposite, and honestly equally obnoxious, end where all I look at is Nurburgring times because I've done a decent amount of time there and have a basic feeling of what a given time means. Equally ridiculous benchmark, but useful to me nonetheless.
Agreed with both - both metrics are partly ridiculous, but do show case the cars' technical capabilities.

Most people on Tesla forums are not enthusiasts. You can put the car in chill mode and set steering to comfort and it becomes easy enough to drive for the regular Accord driver.

And then you have a small group of enthusiasts there - you can find threads on former current Porsche owners who come from 911 CS/Cayman S and have never looked back.

There's a reason Porsche has jumped on the EV bandwagon, and more seriously than Audi/Jag/Benz - it's because they see where the performance car market is going and they can't risk being left behind.
The Taycan is everything a Tesla is not😉
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      08-19-2019, 07:17 PM   #2262
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https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/t...w-it-will-end/
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      08-19-2019, 07:31 PM   #2263
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I've seen a few posts in 'other' forums from former Porsche owners who say that the Model S feels and handles better than their old Porsche. I'm still trying to figure that one out. If I put batteries and a couple of electric motors in a 7 series, will it handle better than an M3 or Cayman?
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      08-19-2019, 08:10 PM   #2264
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I've seen a few posts in 'other' forums from former Porsche owners who say that the Model S feels and handles better than their old Porsche. I'm still trying to figure that one out. If I put batteries and a couple of electric motors in a 7 series, will it handle better than an M3 or Cayman?
Funny thing is that pre-orders for the upcoming Porsche Taycan are from current Tesla owners...
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      08-19-2019, 09:21 PM   #2265
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Quote:
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Funny thing is that pre-orders for the upcoming Porsche Taycan are from current Tesla owners...
Hmm.... now I wonder why that would be. As a current Tesla owner, I don't want a Taycan. I want an M2 with a manual transmission. So I can drive again. Even though my Model S probably handles better than the M2. Not. Cough.
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      08-20-2019, 04:34 PM   #2266
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Quote:
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Good article and spot on. I've been saying most of the same for the past several years on this Forum. Henry Ford was able to cut the price of the Model T in half, but it took almost a decade and invention of numerous engineering design feats and production technologies to do so. The automobile was competing against the Horse and Buggy. Tesla is competing against a 100+ year industry using very inexpensive production technologies and an established supply chain. Tesla has very little in the way of established industrial supply chain because the technology used is very different than an ICE vehicle. It's impressive what Tesla has achieved, but the product is also reflective of such a challenge.

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