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      12-13-2018, 09:22 AM   #133
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hmm...

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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
It's called jurisdiction. The crime was not committed in Canada...thats why she is being extradited.
Huawei doesn't even do business in the U.S..
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      12-13-2018, 09:23 AM   #134
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Apparently Canada and China have been down this road before. Now it's time to see what kind of backed on the Canadian government has. They've done well in the past.

https://apple.news/AE6Fl0whWS8S0fm2VtOZ9ig
BEIJING — China has dramatically upped the ante in its diplomatic standoff with Canada, not just detaining two Canadian citizens but accusing them of serious crimes that could see them held incommunicado for months on end.
For starters, China could hold Michael Kovrig, an analyst with the International Crisis Group think tank, and Michael Spavor, who runs tours and promotes investment in North Korea, in "black jails" for as long as six months without allowing them access to a lawyer or their families.
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      12-13-2018, 09:24 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Huawei doesn't even do business in the U.S..
I don't know what doing business technically means. But you can for sure buy Huawei products in the U.S.
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      12-13-2018, 09:29 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Huawei doesn't even do business in the U.S..
From CNN:

Meng's alleged crimes

Meng, who also serves as deputy chairperson of Huawei's board, faces "serious charges of fraud involving millions of dollars" in the United States, according to the affidavit of a Canadian law enforcement official. She could receive substantial jail time if convicted, the statement said.
Her arrest was set in motion in August, when a US federal judge signed off on a warrant for her arrest.

The United States accuses Meng, 46, of helping Huawei, one of the world's biggest makers of smartphones and networking equipment, get around sanctions on Iran. She's said to have told financial institutions that affiliate Skycom was a separate company in order to conduct business in the country, when in fact it was a subsidiary.

"Meng and other Huawei employees repeatedly lied about the nature of the relationship between Huawei and Skycom and the fact that Skycom operated as Huawei's Iran-based affiliate in order to continue to obtain banking services," the United States said in the arrest request it delivered to Canadian authorities.

US officials went on to say that many of the deceptive statements followed a series of Reuters articles detailing Huawei's control of Skycom. The news agency reported that Skycom tried to illegally import US-made computer equipment into Iran.
Meng is said to have made multiple false claims at a meeting with one of Huawei's banks in 2013. Though it's not named in court documents, Meng's lawyer said Friday the bank was HSBC (HSBC).
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      12-13-2018, 09:39 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
From CNN:

Meng's alleged crimes

Meng, who also serves as deputy chairperson of Huawei's board, faces "serious charges of fraud involving millions of dollars" in the United States, according to the affidavit of a Canadian law enforcement official. She could receive substantial jail time if convicted, the statement said.
Her arrest was set in motion in August, when a US federal judge signed off on a warrant for her arrest.

The United States accuses Meng, 46, of helping Huawei, one of the world's biggest makers of smartphones and networking equipment, get around sanctions on Iran. She's said to have told financial institutions that affiliate Skycom was a separate company in order to conduct business in the country, when in fact it was a subsidiary.

"Meng and other Huawei employees repeatedly lied about the nature of the relationship between Huawei and Skycom and the fact that Skycom operated as Huawei's Iran-based affiliate in order to continue to obtain banking services," the United States said in the arrest request it delivered to Canadian authorities.

US officials went on to say that many of the deceptive statements followed a series of Reuters articles detailing Huawei's control of Skycom. The news agency reported that Skycom tried to illegally import US-made computer equipment into Iran.
Meng is said to have made multiple false claims at a meeting with one of Huawei's banks in 2013. Though it's not named in court documents, Meng's lawyer said Friday the bank was HSBC (HSBC).
Thanks for this. We have said this time and time again on this thread but some just don't get it or fail to do their research.
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      12-13-2018, 09:41 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Thanks for this. We have said this time and time again on this thread but some just don't get it or fail to do their research.
A bit more from the article....it's not that hard to find really.

The United States claims that during the meeting, Meng used an English interpreter and walked through a PowerPoint presentation in Chinese that "included numerous untrue or misleading representations regarding Huawei's ownership and control of Skycom."

Meng said that Huawei's relationship with Skycom consisted of "normal business cooperation," according to a translation of the presentation.

HSBC is said to have cleared more than $100 million in Skycom transactions that traveled through the United States between 2010 and 2014.

Stuart Levey, chief legal officer of HSBC, said in a statement on Monday that the US Justice Department has confirmed that HSBC is not under investigation.
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      12-13-2018, 09:42 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Huawei doesn't even do business in the U.S..
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Huawei+CFO+crime
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      12-13-2018, 09:49 AM   #140
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Skycom and Huawei's relationship isn't that hard to prove....


Domain Name: SKYCOM.COM.HK
Domain Status: Active
DNSSEC: unsigned
Contract Version: HKDNR latest version
Active variants
Inactive variants
Registrar Name: Hong Kong Domain Name Registration Company Limited
Registrar Contact Information: Email: email@hkdnr.hk Hotline: +852 2319 1313

Reseller:

Registrant Contact Information:

Company English Name (It should be the same as the registered/corporation name on your Business Register Certificate or relevant documents): SKYCOM TECH. CO., LIMITED
Company Chinese name: 星通技術有限公司
Address: 9/F , SURSON COMMERCIAL BUILDING
Country: Hong Kong (HK)
Email: email@huawei.com
Domain Name Commencement Date: 01-07-2013
Expiry Date: 02-07-2019
Re-registration Status: Complete


Administrative Contact Information:

Given name: SHENFEN
Family name: SHENFEN
Company name: SKYCOM TECH.CO.,LIMITED
Address: 9/F , SURSON COMMERCIAL BUILDING
Country: Hong Kong (HK)
Phone: +86-75528789656
Fax: +86-75528787222
Email: email@huawei.com
Account Name: HK3672091T


Technical Contact Information:

Given name: SHENFEN
Family name: SHENFEN
Company name: SKYCOM TECH.CO.,LIMITED
Address: 9/F , SURSON COMMERCIAL BUILDING
Country: Hong Kong (HK)
Phone: +86-75528789656
Fax: +86-75528787222
Email: email@huawei.com

Name Servers Information:
NS3.DNS-DIY.COM
NS4.DNS-DIY.COM
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      12-13-2018, 09:52 AM   #141
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lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
From CNN:

Meng's alleged crimes

Meng, who also serves as deputy chairperson of Huawei's board, faces "serious charges of fraud involving millions of dollars" in the United States, according to the affidavit of a Canadian law enforcement official. She could receive substantial jail time if convicted, the statement said.
Her arrest was set in motion in August, when a US federal judge signed off on a warrant for her arrest.

The United States accuses Meng, 46, of helping Huawei, one of the world's biggest makers of smartphones and networking equipment, get around sanctions on Iran. She's said to have told financial institutions that affiliate Skycom was a separate company in order to conduct business in the country, when in fact it was a subsidiary.

"Meng and other Huawei employees repeatedly lied about the nature of the relationship between Huawei and Skycom and the fact that Skycom operated as Huawei's Iran-based affiliate in order to continue to obtain banking services," the United States said in the arrest request it delivered to Canadian authorities.

US officials went on to say that many of the deceptive statements followed a series of Reuters articles detailing Huawei's control of Skycom. The news agency reported that Skycom tried to illegally import US-made computer equipment into Iran.
Meng is said to have made multiple false claims at a meeting with one of Huawei's banks in 2013. Though it's not named in court documents, Meng's lawyer said Friday the bank was HSBC (HSBC).
HSBC isn't even an American bank. This is a reporting crime, purely and simply - the sale of the computer equipment didn't even take place. This "crime" was cooked up by the NSA et al because the are trying to shut Huawei down - especially in Canada, the UK and Australia - because they are a national security threat. Even though Huawei is very active in Canada, I think the American view is prevalent among our national security "community". (Heck, for all I know, they are right.)
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      12-13-2018, 09:57 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
HSBC isn't even an American bank. This is a reporting crime, purely and simply - the sale of the computer equipment didn't even take place. This "crime" was cooked up by the NSA et al because the are trying to shut Huawei down - especially in Canada, the UK and Australia - because they are a national security threat. Even though Huawei is very active in Canada, I think the American view is prevalent among our national security "community". (Heck, for all I know, they are right.)
It seems that a court in NY City issued a warrant for her arrest, so I guess a crime has been committed.
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      12-13-2018, 10:02 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
HSBC isn't even an American bank. This is a reporting crime, purely and simply - the sale of the computer equipment didn't even take place. This "crime" was cooked up by the NSA et al because the are trying to shut Huawei down - especially in Canada, the UK and Australia - because they are a national security threat. Even though Huawei is very active in Canada, I think the American view is prevalent among our national security "community". (Heck, for all I know, they are right.)
From the Guardian:


A senior Chinese telecoms executive committed fraud when she lied about links between Huawei and a shell company used to sell telecommunications equipment to Iran in breach of US sanctions, Canadian prosecutors have told a Vancouver court.

Meng Wanzhou, Huawei’s chief financial officer, appeared in court on Friday as she sought bail in a case that has sparked a major international dispute between China and the US. After more than five hours of debate, the court has not yet decided if Meng will be granted bail as she fights an extradition order to the US. The closely-watched hearing will resume on Monday morning.

Crown prosecutors allege Meng – the daughter of Huawei’s founder – engaged in “conspiracy to defraud multiple financial institutions” in 2013 when she attempted to convince bankers that Huawei and a former Hong Kong subsidiary SkyCom were wholly separate entities.


“Ms Meng personally represented to those banks that Skycom and Huawei were separate, when in fact they were not separate,” said Crown attorney John Gibb-Carlsey. “Skycom was Huawei.”

SkyCom employees used Huawei email addresses and bank records linked the two companies together, and SkyCom was used to engage in business deals with sanctioned countries, including with Iranian telecom companies, the court heard. The alleged sanctions breaches occurred between 2009 and 2014.

Last edited by City Pig; 12-13-2018 at 10:09 AM..
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      12-13-2018, 10:10 AM   #144
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Take a look at this. Apparently Reuters were the first to break the story of Huawei's relationship wth Skycom back in 2013. The question here if we all knew about this for years and the embargo has been in place with Iran for a number of years, why did the arrest come now. On the surface it appears to be completely politically motivated.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-h...90U0CA20130131
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      12-13-2018, 10:15 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Take a look at this. Apparently Reuters were the first to break the story of Huawei's relationship wth Skycom back in 2013. The question here if we all knew about this for years and the trade embargo has been in place for a number of years, why did the arrest come now. On the surface it appears to be completely politically motivated.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-h...90U0CA20130131
It could well be politically motivated, but there would still have to be a threshold met to get a warrant for her. It wouldn't be the first time a government used the courts to get advantage or to make a point. Not just in the USA.

Another reason this might have come on the radar now is that Huawei has become more front and centre in the last year or so for concerns about the 5G network and cybersecurity concerns.
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      12-13-2018, 10:16 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Take a look at this. Apparently Reuters were the first to break the story of Huawei's relationship wth Skycom back in 2013. The question here if we all knew about this for years and the trade embargo has been in place for a number of years, why did the arrest come now. On the surface it appears to be completely politically motivated.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-h...90U0CA20130131
It could well be politically motivated, but there would still have to be a threshold met to get a warrant for her. It wouldn't be the first time a government used the courts to get advantage or to make a point. Not just in the USA.
Hasn't she been avoiding the US for a while now?
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      12-13-2018, 10:18 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Hasn't she been avoiding the US for a while now?
I've read and heard that the warrant was taken out in August of this year and she apparently became aware of it and has been avoiding entering the US since then.
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      12-13-2018, 10:32 AM   #148
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the 5G stuff is the "politics" here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
It could well be politically motivated, but there would still have to be a threshold met to get a warrant for her. It wouldn't be the first time a government used the courts to get advantage or to make a point. Not just in the USA.

Another reason this might have come on the radar now is that Huawei has become more front and centre in the last year or so for concerns about the 5G network and cybersecurity concerns.
Politics seems like an oddly narrow term with at least seven (the Five Eyes, China, Iran) nation's interests in play. I think there is a very real possibility that this warrant was issued to embarrass the Canadian government, with active support from CSIS and the RCMP. What concerns me is the naivete of the Liberal government's response.
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      12-13-2018, 10:39 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Politics seems like an oddly narrow term with at least seven (the Five Eyes, China, Iran) nation's interests in play. I think there is a very real possibility that this warrant was issued to embarrass the Canadian government, with active support from CSIS and the RCMP. What concerns me is the naivete of the Liberal government's response.
What response? The liberal government shouldn't be involved in this and neither should Trump. Let the courts deal with it.
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      12-13-2018, 10:42 AM   #150
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no...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
What response? The liberal government shouldn't be involved in this and neither should Trump. Let the courts deal with it.
That's precisely where the Trudeau government went wrong. The request should have been rejected by the Crown (Minister) as not in the national interest. It is, and was, a trap.
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      12-13-2018, 10:47 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
That's precisely where the Trudeau government went wrong. The request should have been rejected by the Crown (Minister) as not in the national interest. It is, and was, a trap.
This has nothing to do with the Trudeau government or any other so stop trying to make this a Trudeau issue.. Canada is bound by an extradition treaty to make the arrest when requested by the US...period, full stop!
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      12-13-2018, 11:05 AM   #152
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that's the beauty of a well laid trap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
This has nothing to do with the Trudeau government or any other so stop trying to make this a Trudeau issue.. Canada is bound by an extradition treaty to make the arrest when requested by the US...period, full stop!
The government would have had some explaining to do to the U.S.. So what?
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      12-13-2018, 11:10 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
The government would have had some explaining to do to the U.S.. So what?
Will you get the cocks out of your ears man.

Canada is bound by an extradition treaty to make the arrest when requested by the US....its the law.
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      12-13-2018, 12:41 PM   #154
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this is Canada...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Will you get the cocks out of your ears man.

Canada is bound by an extradition treaty to make the arrest when requested by the US....its the law.
We don't have checks and balances and separation of powers. The minister has complete discretion.
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