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      03-10-2019, 02:40 PM   #23
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My family is super rich so I didn't have to work so hard lols.
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      03-10-2019, 02:47 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by kent11202 View Post
It can stop you if there's been a lifetime of poverty to deal with, no example to follow and no mentor helping to "push" you a bit...just my opinion
Well, Obama can be that mentor, telling young men to go to trade schools, tell 23 yo girls not to expect rich people to pay so they can raise their 3 kids by 3 different dads.

Stop with the class warfare! Stop teaching people to be the victims and blaming the rich!
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      03-10-2019, 02:56 PM   #25
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Stop with the class warfare! Stop teaching people to be the victims and blaming the rich!
But then the left would have nothing.

And no man needs nothing.
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      03-10-2019, 04:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
But then the left would have nothing.

And no man needs nothing.
The sad thing they don't even on what they promise!
But they keep getting elected!
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      03-10-2019, 04:55 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by hybris View Post
That you know one guy who made it despite a difficult starting point doesn't really prove much. There are tons of hard working people who are shit out of luck and are unable to get a job that will provide for their family for any number of reasons.

Also, watch this if you think we all have an equal starting point:


And if you agree we don't have an equal starting point, how is it fair to not redistribute some wealth to the less fortunate?
It is NEVER fair to redistribute wealth. Never.
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      03-10-2019, 05:05 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post
The sad thing they don't even on what they promise!
But they keep getting elected!
Necessary evil.

After all, it took 8 years of hopelessness and no change for real hope and change, just ask Ilhan...
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      03-10-2019, 05:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
It is NEVER fair to redistribute wealth. Never.
Agreed, unfortunately in a democracy all is game.

Having said that, when it comes to survival instincts Wall Street has proven they're unparalleled.

PS: If I've inadvertently triggered anyone here please forgive me, it was not my intention...
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      03-10-2019, 05:38 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Agreed, unfortunately in a democracy all is game.

Having said that, when it comes to survival instincts Wall Street has proven they're unparalleled.

PS: If I've inadvertently triggered anyone here please forgive me, it was not my intention...
Wait wut!!
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      03-10-2019, 06:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
It is NEVER fair to redistribute wealth. Never.
Interested in your response to the wealth of the Queen of England, and the wealth of the Saudi Royal Family. MMMmmmmm....I wonder.
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      03-10-2019, 06:02 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
Interested in your response to the wealth of the Queen of England, and the wealth of the Saudi Royal Family. MMMmmmmm....I wonder.
Because that's what we're discussing here, smh.
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      03-10-2019, 06:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
Because that's what we're discussing here, smh.
You think my question was stupid?
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      03-10-2019, 07:20 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
Interested in your response to the wealth of the Queen of England, and the wealth of the Saudi Royal Family. MMMmmmmm....I wonder.
Not a subject of either of those entities. I'm no expert but I'm fairly certain anglo started this thread to discuss the United States of America.

And of course since you're a subject and not a citizen, you don't have the same rights as our citizenry.

Cheers-mk
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      03-10-2019, 07:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
It is NEVER fair to redistribute wealth. Never.
Perhaps in a perfect world, where everything is equal, and no greed exists from either the poor or the rich.
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      03-10-2019, 07:32 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Halid View Post
Perhaps in a perfect world, where everything is equal, and no greed exists from either the poor or the rich.
Perhaps...now back to reality amigo...

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      03-10-2019, 07:37 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Not a subject of either of those entities. I'm no expert but I'm fairly certain anglo started this thread to discuss the United States of America.

And of course since you're a subject and not a citizen, you don't have the same rights as our citizenry.

Cheers-mk
Wow......................sorry, forgot the topic was American.
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      03-10-2019, 07:46 PM   #38
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One member here of Asian decent said something i'll always remember,

It's not your fault to be born poor in America, it's your fault to die poor in America.
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      03-10-2019, 08:22 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
Wow......................sorry, forgot the topic was American.
No worries. Everything I said was factual.

Do you want to have a discussion about the inequality of wealth based on the oppression of the populations in the countries you mentioned, please start a thread. I'd love to have a robust discussion on the topic!!

Cheers-mk
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      03-11-2019, 02:48 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
People from all over the world come here and become successful!
yet there are a certain group of individuals who say the system is rigged they can't win, it's everyone's fault but their own. etc. etc. etc. the beauty of capitalism is that it does not discriminate. everyone's dollar is green. the sad thing is that when opportunity knocks, some people answer and others complain about the noise. that is really the only difference, add discipline and tenacity and you have a recipe for success. have a mouth that works more than your body and you'll have nothing.
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      03-11-2019, 03:34 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I'll start this of by saying that no one is more responsible for your success, or lack thereof than the person you see while brushing your teeth or shaving every day.

That said, class mobility in America is largely a myth. Over 90% of us will be born and die in the same class. The key to America is truly Equality of Opportunity. I have 2 dear friends who came up on the metaphorical wrong side of the tracks. Through scholarships they got to attend the same private HS I went to, excelled and won academic scholarships in college and went on the grad school, one in engineering and one in biz school. One is a global engineering manager for a Fortune 100 company and the other a chancellor at a mid-size university. Both make a couple hundred grand a year. They are truly exceptions.

It can be done but it is so unbelievably difficult and the minefields one must go through are legion. The true difficulty is that there is no margin for error. If something happened to me growing up, I have a multigenerational resources to stave off any challenges. For them, there was nothing. I really believe that this is the difference. I don't believe people want to be unsuccessful but fall victim to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and can never reach the self-actualization needed to progress as people and in society.

I understand that this is a vast oversimplification of the actual challenge but it stands nonetheless.

Cheers-mk
Great post, as always, MK! You hit the nail on the head with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. I feel like a number of folks on this thread should go back and spend some time contemplating it.

Yes, as Americans we all have the opportunity to succeed and thrive. But blaming those who cant break through the economic and class barriers to transcend their current status as being lazy is a total cop-out. A kid who grows up in a loving, supportive, home in the suburbs may have the same opportunities as the kid who grows up in a broken home in the ghetto with a crackhead single mom. BUT, that kid in the suburbs doesn't have to worry about food, water, sleep, security, family, etc. He's free to spend his time worrying about self confidence, respect, problem solving, creativity, etc. While the kid in the ghetto is trying to figure out how to not get shot.

Redistribution of wealth is not the answer. Rather, we as a society should be focusing on making sure our kids can spend more time on self-actualization and less time on issues of safety or the physiological. it's exactly why we need government programs like subsidized school lunch programs and after school programs where kids can feel safe and explore their self-actualization development. That's money well spent, IMO. Handouts are not.
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      03-11-2019, 03:40 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybris View Post

One popular way of solving that problem is free college and free university. Works great in most European countries. I happily pay my taxes to ensure all young people who wants to take higher education can do just that, regardless of the income level of their parents.
This is how you devalue a college degree. You are just simply making a HS Diploma 8yrs vs 4yrs. The next thing you will want is free grad school for everyone.

Unless you limit the people that are getting degrees, which leads to....

It "works great" for some European countries because a big majority of the people going to the college in the US, would not meet the criteria to go to college in those countries. They are more strict than most State Schools in the USA. Hell, Colorado state only requires a 2.0 HS GPA and ~1100 SAT or 20 ACT
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      03-13-2019, 04:30 PM   #43
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This is how you devalue a college degree. You are just simply making a HS Diploma 8yrs vs 4yrs. The next thing you will want is free grad school for everyone.

Unless you limit the people that are getting degrees, which leads to....

It "works great" for some European countries because a big majority of the people going to the college in the US, would not meet the criteria to go to college in those countries. They are more strict than most State Schools in the USA. Hell, Colorado state only requires a 2.0 HS GPA and ~1100 SAT or 20 ACT
I don't want free grad school, I take free grad school for granted.

I don't understand your argument about it "working great" because they are strict. What's your point here exactly? The percentage of the population with higher education is roughly similar say in the US compared to Norway.

EDIT: Guessing wildly that your point is that everyone still won't be able to get an college degree because they limit it on how good your grades are. That's a point of sorts, but surely it's better that the kids who works the hardest and are the brightest are allowed to continue to study, not the ones with the most money?
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      03-13-2019, 04:32 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
It is NEVER fair to redistribute wealth. Never.
Now all you have to do is back that up with an argument that explains why.
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