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      09-16-2019, 01:22 PM   #45
UncleWede
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Point taken.

Forumz it is!! #thuglife
How are 'ba's kids 'sposed to sound that out???
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      09-16-2019, 02:31 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
No. They really only differ on how to pay for it.

Progressives generally want to pay for it with higher tax rates.

Conservatives generally pay for it by selling more treasuries.

It only took Rush Limbaugh 30 years to figure that out.

"Limbaugh: Nobody is a fiscal conservative anymore. All this talk about concern for the deficit and the budget has been bogus for as long as it's been around."
I'm discussing large central government, not on financing it. Large central government is a more progressive goal. More intrusion into daily lives. More control. The nanny state. This is not a conservative aspiration.
They both continue to feed the beast so that itself is de facto support.

Just google Govt expenditures by President or political party. By just about every measure they're all big spenders.

Drug laws,
Gun laws,
Taxation (choosing winners and losers)
etc. It's all about control of the cookie jar.
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      09-16-2019, 03:29 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
They both continue to feed the beast so that itself is de facto support.

Just google Govt expenditures by President or political party. By just about every measure they're all big spenders.

Drug laws,
Gun laws,
Taxation (choosing winners and losers)
etc. It's all about control of the cookie jar.
I listed fundamental differences in party ethos and you continue to bang on about spending. You are comparing apples and nails. You are either trolling me, being willfully ignorant to support a weak point, or don't understand the political parties as they work now.

I agree that they all overspend but to say that they are the same is disingenuous and incorrect in light of all evidence.

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      09-16-2019, 04:06 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
They both continue to feed the beast so that itself is de facto support.

Just google Govt expenditures by President or political party. By just about every measure they're all big spenders.

Drug laws,
Gun laws,
Taxation (choosing winners and losers)
etc. It's all about control of the cookie jar.
I listed fundamental differences in party ethos and you continue to bang on about spending. You are comparing apples and nails. You are either trolling me, being willfully ignorant to support a weak point, or don't understand the political parties as they work now.

I agree that they all overspend but to say that they are the same is disingenuous and incorrect in light of all evidence.

Cheers-mk
No you haven't listed any fundamental differences. You mad some comment about a "Nanny State".

I guess you mean these?

Ethanol subsidies (Subsidy for GOP leaning districts/states)
DHS and US Patriot Act. (Leans GOP)
Obamacare (Both Parties)
Drug laws (Famously GOP)
Gun control laws (Famously DEM)
Minimum wage laws (A favorite for all Presidents).
States Rights (Neither party really cares). The current DOJ investigation into an agreement between a few automakers and the State of California is the latest example.

Limbaugh figured that out but you haven't? The MSM constantly argues for programs their viewers like and against those which their viewers dislike.
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      09-16-2019, 04:17 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
No you haven't listed any fundamental differences. You mad some comment about a "Nanny State".

I guess you mean these?

Ethanol subsidies (Subsidy for GOP leaning districts/states)
DHS and US Patriot Act. (Leans GOP) Both Parties.
Obamacare (Both Parties) DEMS. You are completely wrong on this.
Drug laws (Famously GOP)
Gun control laws (Famously DEM)
Minimum wage laws (A favorite for all Presidents). Famously DEM
States Rights (Neither party really cares). The current DOJ investigation into an agreement between a few automakers and the State of California is the latest example.

Limbaugh figured that out but you haven't? The MSM constantly argues for programs their viewers like and against those which their viewers dislike.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecr.../#c962d1a1398e

https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/do.../08/id/806522/

https://www.brookings.edu/interactiv...the-trump-era/

I'll just leave this here.
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      09-16-2019, 05:18 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
No you haven't listed any fundamental differences. You mad some comment about a "Nanny State".

I guess you mean these?

Ethanol subsidies (Subsidy for GOP leaning districts/states)
DHS and US Patriot Act. (Leans GOP) Both Parties.
Obamacare (Both Parties) DEMS. You are completely wrong on this.
Drug laws (Famously GOP)
Gun control laws (Famously DEM)
Minimum wage laws (A favorite for all Presidents). Famously DEM
States Rights (Neither party really cares). The current DOJ investigation into an agreement between a few automakers and the State of California is the latest example.

Limbaugh figured that out but you haven't? The MSM constantly argues for programs their viewers like and against those which their viewers dislike.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecr.../#c962d1a1398e

https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/do.../08/id/806522/

https://www.brookings.edu/interactiv...the-trump-era/

I'll just leave this here.
Trump is a HUGE statist. Throws tariffs and sanctions around like candy. Yes he has unwound some regulatory things but my god, he's right up there with FDR.

He even had the audacity to tell US companies to leave China and increase the amount of ethanol blended in gasoline.
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      09-17-2019, 04:34 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Trump is a HUGE statist. Throws tariffs and sanctions around like candy. Yes he has unwound some regulatory things but my god, he's right up there with FDR.

He even had the audacity to tell US companies to leave China and increase the amount of ethanol blended in gasoline.
Restricting trade with a hostile nation is one of the government natural ability and warning business of a possible implending total embargo I would say is quite considerate unlike what happen when business instantly lose their investments from foreign government seizing their industry like what happen in Cuba and Venezuela.

As for yout fuel commeny giving people and industry and greater degree of option during manufacturing the opposite of statism.
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      09-17-2019, 08:57 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Trump . . . . has unwound some regulatory things . . . .
LOL. Some.

To date - Trump has eliminated a total of 2,127 rules, regulations, or agency proclamations. So yeah - I guess that could be classified as some?

https://www.brookings.edu/interactiv...the-trump-era/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...tType=REGIWALL
https://cei.org/blog/what-regulation...minated-so-far
https://www.heritage.org/government-...-trump-has-cut
https://www.marketplace.org/2018/01/...tually-killed/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecr.../#7aa35ab23d40
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      09-17-2019, 09:52 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Trump . . . . has unwound some regulatory things . . . .
LOL. Some.

To date - Trump has eliminated a total of 2,127 rules, regulations, or agency proclamations. So yeah - I guess that could be classified as some?

https://www.brookings.edu/interactiv...the-trump-era/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...tType=REGIWALL
https://cei.org/blog/what-regulation...minated-so-far
https://www.heritage.org/government-...-trump-has-cut
https://www.marketplace.org/2018/01/...tually-killed/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecr.../#7aa35ab23d40
Did you know that on average the US Govt issues almost 4,000 new rules/regs every year? In addition there are over 170,000 pages of Federal Regulations.

So ya, "some" is appropriate.

In any case back to the OP, the MSM is all about big govt.
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      09-17-2019, 10:24 AM   #54
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Quote:
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I'm discussing large central government, not on financing it. Large central government is a more progressive goal. More intrusion into daily lives. More control. The nanny state. This is not a conservative aspiration.
With regards to conservatives (lower case "c"), I agree with you 100%.

The problem is there aren't many conservatives in government any longer. Lots of Conservatives, though, who just want to spend tax money on different things as compared to Liberals.
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      09-17-2019, 02:16 PM   #55
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Quote:
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It's been mentioned many times on these fora as well as in other places the fact that the leading media outlets, save Fox, often repeat the same talking points...not just the subject of the points but using identical language. This is a deliberate action which makes the target of the information more accepting of it because it's repeated many times.

This is called the Illusory Truth Effect....
Going back to the topic at hand, I fully agree that the left-leaning media does this. However, focusing solely on TV/internet outlets and leaving Fox News out of the equation totally misses the fact that AM radio is absolutely dominated by hard right-leaning editorial commentary. I live in the Midwest and travel throughout the rural areas in the massive central swath of this country. People in rural areas listen to AM talk radio a lot. AM is their "news" source. What you have are people like Rush, Sean Hannity, Savage, and many many others pushing the hard right agenda on AM and matching the Fox News talking points.

Then there's Trump. He's infamous for gaslighting his base, pushing conspiracy theories, and making bold statements as if they were facts then followed with "I don't know, it's possible, but what if?". That is just as dangerous and quite similar to this "Illusory Truth Effect" and he's the freaking POTUS!

It's all terrible. Opinion-based news should be outlawed because it's often times presented in a way as if it were factual news. To me, it seems like a majority of the "news" these days is opinion-based. That's terrible because I'm convinced only 30% of US public has the ability to think for themselves and in a rational manner. The majority either follows one side at all costs and is totally irrational or is a softer spoken herd follower or simply just doesn't care.
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