[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

All the testing is done assuming that the vehicles are driven like Buicks. But who buys a BMW to drive it like a Buick? So I assume that any BEV I buy would have much lower range than officially asserted.

For this reason I like reviews where the cars are actually driven at speed on roads.

One thing about the M50 that was interesting is that in Eco mode the front motor is decoupled.

I doubt that the range tests are done in that mode. It still won't get the range of the e40 but better than 240?

My daughter never reaches the range quoted on her Chevy Bolt because she has a heavy foot. On an EV below 60 and conservative driving increase range.
That being said, I can't imagine driving my M50 like granny.

[Accident]

The EPA does provide a different range for city and highway. There's a lot more data from their test result than what is available on the sticker.

Their dataset can be downloaded here: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml

[N54B30A]

BMW needs to step their game up. 5000lbs for a small sedan. Expect 5000-6000lb M cars to be the norm. This things a tank.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Accident

The EPA does provide a different range for city and highway. There's a lot more data from their test result than what is available on the sticker.

Their dataset can be downloaded here: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml

This is good and for some it may be a concern, but not me.

Unless the range was under 200 miles; I was going to buy it.

I have level 2 at home and rarely did my 335i see more than 200 miles in a day.

Dealer told me build sheets and position information becomes available Nov. 18 for the US.

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I own a car operated solely with a touchscreen. I've driven it personally over 70,000 miles.

I also own a car with some of the most heavily button laden interiors ever produced (and once previously owned one with even more buttons, the Acura MDX). The Acura and my current Cayenne I've personally driven each of those in excess of 75,000 miles. There is a balance between the two. I will tell you that although your statement is, on the surface, logical (i.e. you need to take eyes off the road to operate a screen), both the placement of said screen and the amount of times you actually need to look at the screen represent no more significant eyes down time as an interior filled with many small buttons. Which ALSO require eyes off the road as they cannot simply be used by muscle memory. Because if you think that this is easy to memorize and operate at speed, I'm telling you, you're wrong.


So go ahead and believe what you want. I've got the seat time behind both and mine isn't an opinion, it's an actual experience.

Agree Tesla's yoke is a joke but that's a whataboutism argument and has no bearing on touchscreens being useful.

The fact that the rest of the industry hasn't moved towards complete touch screens already tells us what we already know.

I agree that there could be a balance between touch screen and buttons but tesla going the complete opposite direction is in my opinion unsafe.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by supershaft

The fact that the rest of the industry hasn't moved towards complete touch screens already tells us what we already know.

I agree that there could be a balance between touch screen and buttons but tesla going the complete opposite direction is in my opinion unsafe.

That's great, it's your opinion. Mine is an experience based on 75,000 miles of driving a touchscreen dominated UI. So....

Also, I'm not seeing a lot of buttons going on here. So it's not just Tesla. I don't hear a lot of people calling the Taycan unsafe.

[W0ut]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

tbd- he used the word "miles" didn't say Kilometres...

All the germans have been under reporting mileage so, if 293 is correct, wouldn't be a shock.

He wanted to say km. Calculated it myself and got 295km.

[W0ut]

Bit worried about the motion sickness. Not the first review that mentions this. And definitely something that would happen to me as well.

Even with his driving style I find the range of 293km horrible. I wonder what the effect of colder weather will be.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by W0ut

Bit worried about the motion sickness.

Unless you're doing YouTube videos in the car and are flooring it a bunch (and even then, there seem to be those that can do it without getting sick), I don't think it's a cause for concern.

[XtBimmer]

Originally Posted by W0ut

Bit worried about the motion sickness. Not the first review that mentions this. And definitely something that would happen to me as well.

Even with his driving style I find the range of 293km horrible. I wonder what the effect of colder weather will be.

As per all EVs, winter driving will reduce range.

[i4M50Guy]

Originally Posted by edycol

There is a life beyond the phone!

Speaking of phones, the Tesla has the worst phone integration I've ever seen. Even the Volvo I had 10 years ago was better.

No CarPlay
No Siri Eyes Free
No Android Auto
No thanks!

[Hansn]

About the range, i dont understand what people dont understand about it...

Hes driving the car very hard, hes going upwards on the autobahn from Munchen to the alps, hes doing speeds that is known for years will drain batteries faster 150km/h, its raining, the range on this car with this setup is 420km NOT 500+ like some people seem to think, add those tires to the fact that hes driving in heavy rain at high speeds, and then he is even doing 0-60 tests and driving"sporty" uphill on the bundesstrasse on top of it all..

Not very hard to understand that he managed to push it from 425km range to 290. Its a WELL known fact that you will have to charge more if you go faster in any EV.

On the autogefuhl iX rewiev its said that you can do 200km at 200km/h with the iX50 according to the live consumption numbers at that speed.

For most people it wont be a problem as you wont be allowed to drive at those speeds anyway.
But in other words, if you do a 2-3 hour stretch of agressive driving you will have to stop for 15-30 min and charge. There is a reason why people have figured out that EVs work. 99.9% of people dont need cars that do more than this. You can do 1000km in about 10hours in most EVs now and if you that in any car its a full days work anyway.

The only worry people should have is the availability of chargers. Its something that will improve greatly over the comming years. In my country its already good enough for the current amount of EVs on the road. Its working fine, and you only charge away from home on rare occations. Most people dont drive 400-600km in a day, atleast not in EU.

[blloydtbird]

Originally Posted by W0ut

Bit worried about the motion sickness. Not the first review that mentions this. And definitely something that would happen to me as well.

I have yet to meet anyone with motion sickness worse than mine. I drive an I3 and initially, I did have minor problems given how quiet the car was. I suspect the engine noise and vibrations from ICE cars create enough distraction with driving to reduce the likelihood of one getting sick. After a week or so, my brain got used to the lack of noise and I never had an issue again. That said, my tolerance as a passenger in any EV is far less than that as a passenger in an ICE - anything over a few min in an EV as a passenger and I need to get out, in an ICE vehicle I can get to 20 minutes given the right conditions. Thankfully I enjoy driving!

[naywa01]

Originally Posted by Pic18

He does actually say 293 miles, but I think you are right on the math that it would be 293km.

Errm, not sure what math you're doing and maybe I misunderstood your point, but in round figures there are 1.6KM to 1 Mile, so 293 miles would be 468.8KM and 293KM would be 183Miles (well 183.125, but you get my point!)


Anyway this looks like a great EV alternative and has certainly caught my interest, but I think the folks trying to directly compare to an M3/M4 on the basis of 0-60 is a bit of an exaggeration. As he says its probably closer to an M340/440i in terms of driving dynamics.

[4monks]

Originally Posted by naywa01

Errm, not sure what math you're doing and maybe I misunderstood your point, but in round figures there are 1.6KM to 1 Mile, so 293 miles would be 468.8KM and 293KM would be 183Miles (well 183.125, but you get my point!)


Anyway this looks like a great EV alternative and has certainly caught my interest, but I think the folks trying to directly compare to an M3/M4 on the basis of 0-60 is a bit of an exaggeration. As he says its probably closer to an M340/440i in terms of driving dynamics.

.. he simply accidentally said miles instead of km. He did the maths correctly, but said miles instead of km. The headline has been corrected now from miles to km.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M140iGuy

Speaking of phones, the Tesla has the worst phone integration I've ever seen. Even the Volvo I had 10 years ago was better.

No CarPlay
No Siri Eyes Free
No Android Auto
No thanks!

Tesla is like iPad on the wheels. I don't want iPad on the wheels. I want car, I want to enjoy drive and what is around. Germans still understand that. Tesla designers and engineers are introverts who send an email to person sitting next to them in office bcs. refusing to have contact with other human beings.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by M140iGuy

Speaking of phones, the Tesla has the worst phone integration I've ever seen. Even the Volvo I had 10 years ago was better.

No CarPlay
No Siri Eyes Free
No Android Auto
No thanks!

It's very, very bad. And the voice commands are a fracking JOKE.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by edycol

Tesla is like iPad on the wheels. I don't want iPad on the wheels. I want car, I want to enjoy drive and what is around. Germans still understand that. Tesla designers and engineers are introverts who send an email to person sitting next to them in office bcs. refusing to have contact with other human beings.

Bad stereotype. Could we please get off this soapbox already?

I know this owner personally. He's owned, in the past, multiple high performance cars that he's tracked including a 996 GT3, which he still holds as his high water mark for overall feel. His other car, currently, is an NA Miata....with a 302 Ford V8 out of a Mustang Cobra.

He notes that his Model 3 is the fastest car he's driven around Lime Rock....and second most enjoyable behind the GT3.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Bad stereotype. Could we please get off this soapbox already?

I know this owner personally. He's owned, in the past, multiple high performance cars that he's tracked including a 996 GT3, which he still holds as his high water mark for overall feel. His other car, currently, is an NA Miata....with a 302 Ford V8 out of a Mustang Cobra.

He notes that his Model 3 is the fastest car he's driven around Lime Rock....and second most enjoyable behind the GT3.

I truly have zero interest in how well a car races or who it beats. Irrelevant to my purchase. I do care if it's well assembled, with parts that fit and don't fly off or fail prematurely, without Home Depot parts holding underhood components in place, without an interior that takes "spartan" to an unpleasant extreme, and is reasonably easy to operate (a glovebox handle is not a bad thing)...etc. They have a wonderful set of batteries and motors, but the rest of the car doesn't meet my minimal expectations.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I truly have zero interest in how well a car races or who it beats. Irrelevant to my purchase. I do care if it's well assembled, with parts that fit and don't fly off or fail prematurely, without Home Depot parts holding underhood components in place, without an interior that takes "spartan" to an unpleasant extreme, and is reasonably easy to operate (a glovebox handle is not a bad thing)...etc. They have a wonderful set of batteries and motors, but the rest of the car doesn't meet my minimal expectations.

OK, you're entitled to that opinion. I'm not going to argue with fit and finish and parts quality. It gets way overblown in that it's truly not THAT bad. I've had two model 3's, each over 35k miles now, and while parts quality is low, nothings falling off or outright failing. It's just low quality stuff, like mid-2000's Honda. You're paying for the drivetrain and the software, not the build quality. I overlook a lot of stuff regarding the parts quality, but it's not like the car is an 80's Yugo with pieces left behind every time you stop.

But that's not the same point I was addressing above, which was that the car is most certainly not just an iPad on wheels. The car is actually enjoyable to drive for an enthusiast. I will stand behind that. I can't wait until someone, anyone besides Tesla, gets CLOSE to their motor / battery / performance combo without nosebleed pricing (Taycan). Will the i4 be it? Maybe. Hope so.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Factor in that Tesla would not exist for all the tax breaks my home state gave it. The ability to sell emissions credits and the like.

Now moving headquarters to Texas.

So besides the crappy quality I'd never buy one because they are moving headquarters to Texas.

But back to the interior. I would never buy a car that requires me to look away from the road to get basic information. You must look to the center and it has no HUD. You can't glance at a guage cluster because it doesn't have one.

For all those touting the glory of the TM3, please go buy one. You probably aren't a BMW buyer anyway.

Tesla will officially be the first company to have their HQ in the state where they are not allowed to sell their cars. There is no doubt that without the many incentives provided by CA to Tesla, the company would never be around. FWIW, we bought our first and last Tesla (MY Performance) last Dec. We put in our pre-order for an iX before the Tesla HQ announcement. LOL.

- No HUD
- Poor iphone connectivity
- Harsh ride
- Cheapish and basic interior [the new Plaid interior is much nicer, but the Yoke is a deal breaker for the Model X to me]

Otherwise the performance is good and we have had no issues with quality. The other manufacturers need to match Tesla's Supercharger Network. IMHO

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

OK, you're entitled to that opinion. I'm not going to argue with fit and finish and parts quality. It gets way overblown in that it's truly not THAT bad. I've had two model 3's, each over 35k miles now, and while parts quality is low, nothings falling off or outright failing. It's just low quality stuff, like mid-2000's Honda. You're paying for the drivetrain and the software, not the build quality. I overlook a lot of stuff regarding the parts quality, but it's not like the car is an 80's Yugo with pieces left behind every time you stop.

But that's not the same point I was addressing above, which was that the car is most certainly not just an iPad on wheels. The car is actually enjoyable to drive for an enthusiast. I will stand behind that. I can't wait until someone, anyone besides Tesla, gets CLOSE to their motor / battery / performance combo without nosebleed pricing (Taycan). Will the i4 be it? Maybe. Hope so.

My issue is "not that bad". It isn't that good either.

The TM3P may be a joy to drive. it may be all of what you said. By the time you add everything including the FSD (that isn't) it costs $68k.

I can get any color interior as long as I like black or white. I don't. I can't get leather.

Is the range longer than the i4? Yep, but that's not part of my consideration. As long as the range is 250ish I don't care.

The TM3P may be a joy to drive.for some. For me it was okay. It wasn't fun, it was just okay.

Tesla build quality just isn't BMW build quality. Quite frankly, it's not Chevy build quality either.

Tesla has supply chain issues and even getting a broken window repaired can take or used to take a month or two.

Call me a BMW fanboy if you like, but M50 is electric and it's a BMW that checks the boxes for what "I" want in a car. I want leather, HUD, BMW type service, BMW fit finish and quality, etc.