[azahed]

I've seen some news that the i4 won't qualify for the proposed federal rebate in Congress due to a maximum MSRP of $55k. Personally that would lead me to look elsewhere for my next purchase, and I'm sure many others are in the same boat. What is the particular bill that we should reach out to our representatives about? I've heard the senate is looking to raise the cap. Is there a way to show direct support of that proposal?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by azahed

I've seen some news that the i4 won't qualify for the proposed federal rebate in Congress due to a maximum MSRP of $55k. Personally that would lead me to look elsewhere for my next purchase, and I'm sure many others are in the same boat. What is the particular bill that we should reach out to our representatives about? I've heard the senate is looking to raise the cap. Is there a way to show direct support of that proposal?

The $55k cap is measured by the base price. The path of least resistance, if this becomes law, is for BMWNA to take some easy-to-vary piece of standard equipment worth the excess over $55k and make it optional, and then make the M50 a package, instead of a separate model, off the base car keeping the actual car/equipment identical. All i4 would qualify as under $55k base price under this plan. The problem would come in the 2nd year when BMW would be tempted to raise prices.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

The $55k cap is measured by the base price. The path of least resistance, if this becomes law, is for BMWNA to take some easy-to-vary piece of standard equipment worth the excess over $55k and make it optional, and then make the M50 a package, instead of a separate model, off the base car keeping the actual car/equipment identical. All i4 would qualify as under $55k base price under this plan. The problem would come in the 2nd year when BMW would be tempted to raise prices.

Is the M50 a separate model or just a trim package?
I was under the impression it's the same car.
when I look at the configuration in various countries it's listed as same model different engine/trim.

In the US the cars are called an i4 there are two variants the eDrive40 and M50.

The 328, 340, 340ix are not different models but the same car with different trim and engines.

[azahed]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

when I look at the configuration in various countries it's listed as same model different engine/trim.

Really hope its this way! I contacted my dealership about changing my eDrive40 preorder to an M50 and they said I'd need to place a brand new order, so I assumed it would be considered a different car. On the federal EV tax credit webpage, it also lists comparable vehicles with performance trims as separate vehicles (e.g. Mach-E GT vs California Route 1).

Regardless, I'm certain manufactures will try and massage the way they label different trims to fit the bills language but I'm still a little worried.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Is the M50 a separate model or just a trim package?
I was under the impression it's the same car.
when I look at the configuration in various countries it's listed as same model different engine/trim.

In the US the cars are called an i4 there are two variants the eDrive40 and M50.

The 328, 340, 340ix are not different models but the same car with different trim and engines.

Different OEMs may have subtle differences in terminology, but these are different models. It is necessary to see the product plan documents to make the determination. Most consider the basic platform a "Line" and have VLEs in charge...the Vehicle Line Executive. These can include different brand siblings arising from a common platform. Below the Line, a common term is "Type" or "Body Group". Below that are models. A model is not a platform, nor a body. It is a collection of standard content at a total vehicle base price. The M50 is not shown at incremental package pricing of $10k (or whatever is the exact difference). It is a total vehicle price, thus is is a model. Below the model are packages, and then individual options.

The OEM where I did product planning operated this way, as does every OEM with which I am familiar. BMW is the same. If you look at this excerpt from one of their pricing guides, note the model code difference from a 430 Coupe (NA 194B and AG 4W33) versus the same body vehicle as a 440 Coupe (194E and AG 4W73).

The model codes are called out on the individual model pages for each nameplate.

Then, you see the packages in the 3 character sales codes. This shows that MSport is a Package, for example. However, the step from 430 to 440 is a separate model.

[techwhiz1]

Got it.

[USA-RET]

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/e...p-trucks-suvs/


The main changes to the program when it was first announced earlier this year:

Remove the 200,000 vehicles per manufacturer cap
Keep the $7,500 incentive for new electric cars for 5 years
Make the $7,500 incentive a point-of-sale discount instead of tax credit
EVs with battery pack smaller than 40 kWh are limited to a $4,000 incentive
Add an additional $4,500 for EV assembled at union factories
Add another $500 for EVs using battery packs with 50% of components (including cells) are made in the US
After the first 5 years, the $7,500 becomes only for US-made electric vehicles and it applies for another 5 years.
They introduce price limits on the EVs eligible for the incentives:
Sedans under $55,000
SUVs under $69,000
Pickup trucks under $74,000
Vans under $54,000
They are also introducing caps on income to get access to the incentives, but they are fairly high at an adjusted gross income of up to $400,000 for individuals and up to $800,000 for joint filers.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by USA-RET

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/e...p-trucks-suvs/

The price cap increase is only for trucks and SUVs. It's clear that this portion of the bill was written to favor the big 3 which sell mostly big SUVs and trucks.
Sedans are always going to be more efficient than trucks no matter the fuel. It makes no sense to exclude a $56k sedan, but give full credit to a Escalade type SUV.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Accident

It makes no sense...

If "con" is the opposite of "pro"...

We know what the opposite of progress is...

[mbchris]

SUV and Trucks weigh more. Much of the weight is batteries. Batteries = $$$. So that is why it makes sense to have higher MSRP allowance for SUVs and Trucks for same range with heavier vehicle and payload.

I think it also makes sense from a primary and light commercial standpoint. Those vehicles do many more miles, so incentivizing those vehicles to EVs makes sense environmentally speaking. They should also incentivize the switch for long range trucking if that is the goal.

[mbchris]

MSRP on i4 40i stayed the same at $55,400. I wonder if they will adjust one the BBBB gets finalized and the limit is $55,000.

[azahed]

Originally Posted by mbchris

MSRP on i4 40i stayed the same at $55,400. I wonder if they will adjust one the BBBB gets finalized and the limit is $55,000.

I'm assuming this is from a order guide? Where were you able to find it?

[daswartz]

Originally Posted by azahed

I'm assuming this is from a order guide? Where were you able to find it?

If you go to the pre-order page for BMW USA on the i4, it shows 55,400 for the BMW i4 eDrive40.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by daswartz

If you go to the pre-order page for BMW USA on the i4, it shows 55,400 for the BMW i4 eDrive40.

I also have the order guide in front of me.
It is marked "Effective October 4, 2021".

it is possible for them to make changes to reflect a lower price.

They could simply make the comfort access and garage door opener "options" and tell everyone that it will be late 2022 if you want the car without them.

Or they could simply lower the price by $400 and charge destination of $1395 instead of the $995.
They just need to make it happen.

On a side note. Tesla has raised their prices again to get part of the rebate/credit. Funny how they think they should profit off what was clearly designed to motivate EV adoption. One more reason not to like Tesla.

[kbsilver]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

... On a side note. Tesla has raised their prices again to get part of the rebate/credit. Funny how they think they should profit off what was clearly designed to motivate EV adoption. One more reason not to like Tesla.

Really can't blame Tesla for taking advantage of supply/demand dynamics. If they keep it up, they will soon solve their demand problem.

[techwhiz1]

Also just thought about something.
BMW could simply remove the moon roof as standard to reduce the cost by $1000.

It's not standard in all markets. Easy for price reduction

[daswartz]

Originally Posted by USA-RET

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/e...p-trucks-suvs/


The main changes to the program when it was first announced earlier this year:

...
Keep the $7,500 incentive for new electric cars for 5 years...

I don't see this part in the article or anywhere else, but I do see this:

Here's how the proposed changes shake out, and keep in mind, they may change yet. The base amount remains $4,000, as it is today, with another $3,500 available if the EV's battery pack includes at least 40 kilowatt-hours of capacity. In the case of plug-in hybrids, the gas tank cannot exceed 2.5 gallons. This is for cars placed in service before 2027.

However... It looks like that new cap may sink that? 55k for sedans, and 80k for SUVs.

I just can't find anything that says the current 7.5k credit will be allowable under the new rule for cars that have a starting MSRP over the limit. We have an i4 M50 an an iX ordered/preordered up and while it would be nice to not lose the incentive, we will not change our mind based upon it being aced.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by daswartz

I don't see this part in the article or anywhere else, but I do see this:

Here's how the proposed changes shake out, and keep in mind, they may change yet. The base amount remains $4,000, as it is today, with another $3,500 available if the EV's battery pack includes at least 40 kilowatt-hours of capacity. In the case of plug-in hybrids, the gas tank cannot exceed 2.5 gallons. This is for cars placed in service before 2027.

However... It looks like that new cap may sink that? 55k for sedans, and 80k for SUVs.

I just can't find anything that says the current 7.5k credit will be allowable under the new rule for cars that have a starting MSRP over the limit. We have an i4 M50 an an iX ordered/preordered up and while it would be nice to not lose the incentive, we will not change our mind based upon it being aced.

Yeah, not changing my mind either.

I'm more interested in the SALT cap.
I pay property tax in California on two houses. The car will have about $8K in state taxes. Then there is my state taxes on income.

I can't help but feeling like I get screwed no matter who is in the white house.

[mbchris]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Or they could simply lower the price by $400 and charge destination of $1395 instead of the $995.
They just need to make it happen.

Thinking this through, I think that is the wrong approach for BMW. They need to keep it at $55,400. Why? Because they need to increase prices every year. They can't keep it under $55K for 5 years. That will be a seriously decontented i4 in 2026. And having the rebate for just 1 model year or 2 is unlikely.

Instead, I think they would keep the i4 as a premium car above $55K. Then introduce a car sized like a 2 series around $45K. Then that can get more expensive over the years to the $55K cap.

What we may end up with is a market gap of no cars between say $50K and $60K due to the rebate caps.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by mbchris

Thinking this through, I think that is the wrong approach for BMW. They need to keep it at $55,400. Why? Because they need to increase prices every year. They can't keep it under $55K for 5 years. That will be a seriously decontented i4 in 2026. And having the rebate for just 1 model year or 2 is unlikely.

Instead, I think they would keep the i4 as a premium car above $55K. Then introduce a car sized like a 2 series around $45K. Then that can get more expensive over the years to the $55K cap.

What we may end up with is a market gap of no cars between say $50K and $60K due to the rebate caps.

I didn't realize it was 5 years.
In that case it doesn't matter since this car will be gone by 2026/7.

The new platform will have been introduced.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Yeah, not changing my mind either.

I'm more interested in the SALT cap.
I pay property tax in California on two houses. The car will have about $8K in state taxes. Then there is my state taxes on income.

I can't help but feeling like I get screwed no matter who is in the white house.

I would be more likely to seek an alternative if they sacrificed our $7500 for the sake of their $401, or resisted a product plan realignment to reach that goal. With my 2 Series for "BMW fun", this family car could be something else. Getting $12,500 from a Lyriq acquisition (US/union-made) is intriguing, especially considering how C&D rated the Cadillac over the Bimmer and Audi in a recent performance sedan comparison. A test drive will be illuminating.

I agree folks of higher income brackets usually get hit one way or the other, especially in California. It's like Willie Sutton's comment on robbing banks...."it's where the money is.". But we all do better when the occupant of the residence you note is sane.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by mbchris

Thinking this through, I think that is the wrong approach for BMW. They need to keep it at $55,400. Why? Because they need to increase prices every year. They can't keep it under $55K for 5 years. That will be a seriously decontented i4 in 2026. And having the rebate for just 1 model year or 2 is unlikely.

Instead, I think they would keep the i4 as a premium car above $55K. Then introduce a car sized like a 2 series around $45K. Then that can get more expensive over the years to the $55K cap.

What we may end up with is a market gap of no cars between say $50K and $60K due to the rebate caps.

A vehicle program is managed to a total program margin. If BMW found that the small difference in pricing on the 40 had a significant impact on purchase consideration due to loss of the $7500, they could, based on the mix, price the 50 to make up for total program profit sacrificed on the 40, anticipating that those seeking performance will swallow the price step. Pending a consumer survey, and given the still-low level of consideration in the total market for BEV during this historical transformation over these next decades, I'd advise them to ensure they stay at $54,999 for the 40. Decontenting may be of limited help as that can cause showroom rejection as well. Genesis will be right down the street.