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      01-28-2019, 09:46 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
That's my thoughts too, I cannot fathom how this helped us at all because I believe everyone sees through this, so all it really seemed to do in the end was:

1. Throw an unneccesary wrench into the extradition case, pissing off the US.
2. Give the Chinese (who were busily painting themselves into a corner with their actions on a world scale) additional leverage and a way for them to say some of their actions were justified.
3. Do absolutely nothing towards getting Meng off our soil and onto someone else's (whether that be US or Chinese, I really don't care, though given China's actions, I'd prefer US soil and preferably same treatment as Canadians are getting).
If the US extradition isn't successful there will be a lingering doubt about the independence of the Canadian Judicial process. Trudeau has been somewhat hypocritical on that point as both him and the Justice Minister stuck their noses into the jury verdict in the Colton Bushie case.
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      01-28-2019, 09:49 AM   #288
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I think this was an ill-conceived plan in the PMO, McCallum would've been briefed before talking to the media especially in the middle of this crisis. It then blew up in the governments face. McCallum had to be the sacrificial lamb, and I'm concerned that there will likely be long term repercussions for us with China and possibly the USA. I guess time will tell what and how bad the damage will be.
Leave it to Justin's government to not just piss off the Chinese, but to potentially piss off the US as well lol. Well that's what happens when you make a room temperature IQ dandy the leader of a country so can't say I'm surprised.
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      01-28-2019, 09:53 AM   #289
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Leave it to Justin's government to not just piss off the Chinese, but to potentially piss off the US as well lol. Well that's what happens when you make a room temperature IQ dandy the leader of a country so can't say I'm surprised.
Let's not forget what started the whole mess.
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      01-28-2019, 09:57 AM   #290
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Let's not forget what started the whole mess.
As I recall the whole mess was started when the US contacted Canadian justice and law enforcement to advise that Meng would be in Canada and that she was wanted in the US on Fraud related charges and requested that she be detained in accordance with extradition treaties that were in place.
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      01-28-2019, 10:07 AM   #291
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Let's not forget what started the whole mess.
Ms Wanzhou?
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      01-28-2019, 10:10 AM   #292
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As I recall the whole mess was started when the US contacted Canadian justice and law enforcement to advise that Meng would be in Canada and that she was wanted in the US on Fraud related charges and requested that she be detained in accordance with extradition treaties that were in place.
Exactly. All three governments are guilty of 'politicizing' this issue.
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      01-28-2019, 10:16 AM   #293
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Exactly. All three governments are guilty of 'politicizing' this issue.
It's become political for sure. Not sure if it started this way, at least not on the part of Canada. I guess there could've been a political motivation on the side of the US in the beginning, but I don't think Canada was playing a political game at the beginning.
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      01-28-2019, 10:34 AM   #294
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several U.S. banks violated the Iran sanctions...

They were duly charged and convicted - but not one U.S. executive was indicted. This has not been politics, but geopolitics from the very beginning. It is all about Huawei and the national security establishment's war against them (Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting they are wrong about this.). Our Liberal government is the only western power to be toying with Huawei for 5G. Whether this was extra motivation for the U.S. DOJ is a matter of speculation.

The Canadian government's best move would have been to warn Ms. Meng off, but the Canadian national security establishment is very much aligned with the U.S. on this and would likely have blown the whistle on the Liberals. So the Trudeau government has been in a box from the get go. And it won't be getting better any time soon. A "reset" of our relationship with China is out of the question as Xi has bigger fish to fry. Getting closer to the U.S. is a non-starter as the Trump administration sees Trudeau as an enemy more than it sees Canada as a friend.
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      01-28-2019, 11:52 AM   #295
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They were duly charged and convicted - but not one U.S. executive was indicted. This has not been politics, but geopolitics from the very beginning. It is all about Huawei and the national security establishment's war against them (Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting they are wrong about this.). Our Liberal government is the only western power to be toying with Huawei for 5G. Whether this was extra motivation for the U.S. DOJ is a matter of speculation.

The Canadian government's best move would have been to warn Ms. Meng off, but the Canadian national security establishment is very much aligned with the U.S. on this and would likely have blown the whistle on the Liberals. So the Trudeau government has been in a box from the get go. And it won't be getting better any time soon. A "reset" of our relationship with China is out of the question as Xi has bigger fish to fry. Getting closer to the U.S. is a non-starter as the Trump administration sees Trudeau as an enemy more than it sees Canada as a friend.
Sounds about right, I think I heard somewhere that Canada is now backing away from Huawei's 5G network.
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      01-28-2019, 12:44 PM   #296
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Sounds about right, I think I heard somewhere that Canada is now backing away from Huawei's 5G network.
Bell and Telus were trialing Nokia and Huawei's 5G infrastructure and Rogers has already selected Ericsson. It really doesn't make much difference if Huawei's 5G is banned...Bell/Telus 3/4G is almost exclusively Huawei.
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      01-28-2019, 01:10 PM   #297
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Bell and Telus were trialing Nokia and Huawei's 5G infrastructure and Rogers has already selected Ericsson. It really doesn't make much difference if Huawei's 5G is banned...Bell/Telus 3/4G is almost exclusively Huawei.
I think I also heard that 5G is going to be obsolete soon as someone else is working on 10G? Regardless, I have concerns about Huawei having access to the Canadian networks and frankly doing business here given their close ties to the Chinese government.
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      01-28-2019, 01:28 PM   #298
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I think I also heard that 5G is going to be obsolete soon as someone else is working on 10G? Regardless, I have concerns about Huawei having access to the Canadian networks and frankly doing business here given their close ties to the Chinese government.
If you are a Bell or Telus mobility customer then you have been using Huawei's infrastructure for years now not to mention the numerous Huawei wired switching components across the country. One way or another your data touches Huawei equipment somewhere along the line. I would be equally as concerned about the US governments ability to access your data under he patriot act.

It's funny that people get so up in arms about Huawei accessing their data but many will voluntarily post every dying minute of their lives on Facebook for the world to see and have no problem offering up their DNA to 'genealogy' services.
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      01-28-2019, 01:30 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
If you are a Bell or Telus mobility customer then you have been using Huawei's infrastructure for years now not to mention the numerous Huawei wired switching components across the country. One way or another your data touches Huawei equipment somewhere along the line. I would be equally as concerned about the US governments ability to access your data under he patriot act.

It's funny that people get so up in arms about Huawei accessing their data but many will voluntarily post every dying minute of their lives on Facebook for the world to see and have no problem offering up their DNA to 'genealogy' services.
I'd rather the US have see what I'm doing that China, and I other than this forum I don't use any type of social media.
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      01-28-2019, 01:44 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
If you are a Bell or Telus mobility customer then you have been using Huawei's infrastructure for years now not to mention the numerous Huawei wired switching components across the country. One way or another your data touches Huawei equipment somewhere along the line. I would be equally as concerned about the US governments ability to access your data under he patriot act.

It's funny that people get so up in arms about Huawei accessing their data but many will voluntarily post every dying minute of their lives on Facebook for the world to see and have no problem offering up their DNA to 'genealogy' services.
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
I'd rather the US have see what I'm doing that China, and I other than this forum I don't use any type of social media.

I'm with Grumpy on that one. Worst case scenario, I have a much better shot at blending into the American masses and becoming anonymous if needs be.

But as a white guy, I think I'm going to have considerable difficulty blending in to anonymity within China and having everyone believe my name is Fuk Yu.
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      01-28-2019, 01:46 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Sounds about right, I think I heard somewhere that Canada is now backing away from Huawei's 5G network.

And the list is growing by the day.

Countries that have excluded or are actively considering barring Huawei from 5G development/government contracts:
---*---Country/Territory--------Status
--FN---United States------------Banned, Lobbying Allies to Follow Suit
-FEN--United Kingdom---------Evaluating Potential Ban, Ban in place by BT
--FN---Canada------------------Evaluating Potential Ban
--F----Australia-----------------Banned
--F----New Zealand------------Banned
--EN--Germany----------------Considering Ban
--EN--Poland-------------------Considering Ban
--EN--France-------------------Might Consider Ban, Upping Security
-------Japan--------------------Banned


*Member of supranational organization-
F=Five Eyes, E=European Union, N=NATO

For the purposes of my chart here:
"Banned" here is used loosely to mean that effectively (de facto), Huawei has no future in the said country/jurisdiction's telecommunications infrastructure. It includes preliminary/partial bans. Future/formal legislation may still be necessary.
"Considering ban" means one or more government officials within current administration have already announced intention to move towards barring Huawei from 5G development.
"Evaluating potential ban" here should be taken to mean that there is public and governmental debate as to how to combat the alleged threat that Huawei poses (or whether it is even a threat that warrants a ban) where one or more government officials may have expressed opinion, but there are no concrete plans or agreement within the current administration/government.
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      01-28-2019, 01:48 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
I'm with Grumpy on that one. Worst case scenario, I have a much better shot at blending into the American masses and becoming anonymous if needs be.

But as a white guy, I think I'm going to have considerable difficulty blending in to anonymity within China and having everyone believe my name is Fuk Yu.
Not sue what you mean by blending in. The Patriot Act now the Freedom Act allows the government to access your data which may be use against you.
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      01-28-2019, 01:56 PM   #303
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Not sue what you mean by blending in. The Patriot Act now the Freedom Act allows the government to access your data which may be use against you.
So I've always been in the camp of I don't have anything to hide. I truly believe that if they ever get around to having a peak at my data they will quickly become bored and move on to those that constitute an actual threat.

My real concern is the Chinese breaching sensitive government data and our banking.....again if someone wants to see pics of my Jack Russell Terrier Bosco then have at it....
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      01-28-2019, 02:04 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
So I've always been in the camp of I don't have anything to hide. I truly believe that if they ever get around to having a peak at my data they will quickly become bored and move on to those that constitute an actual threat.

My real concern is the Chinese breaching sensitive government data and our banking.....again if someone wants to see pics of my Jack Russell Terrier Bosco then have at it....
That's great, as long as you agree with the government.

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      01-28-2019, 02:08 PM   #305
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Not sue what you mean by blending in. The Patriot Act now the Freedom Act allows the government to access your data which may be use against you.
Oh I mean in the event it is used against me...I'd be looking at disappearing...off grid, but blending in in that I don't look obviously out of place when I need supplies, etc.


Who knows...perhaps in the not too distant future private conversations will no longer be excluded from hate speech. And in that case, my not-well-esteemed PM probably would not be thrilled with how low my opinion is of him. And my Google home has been dutifully recording my rants for months now. I doubt that qualifies as hate, but that would be up to King Justin. If he can tear himself away from a camera that long anyways.
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      01-28-2019, 02:09 PM   #306
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That's great, as long as you agree with the government.
Well, I don't like the current government in Canada and I am of the view that they stick their nose far to deep into our business but frankly I don't have anything on my computer that I would care about them looking at and I am of the belief that the folks that actually want to do us harm will take up enough of their time that they won't likely spend much time looking at me.
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      01-28-2019, 04:11 PM   #307
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Doink.
https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecu...-chinas-huawei

Donkey Kong.
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      01-28-2019, 04:12 PM   #308
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U.S. unveils criminal charges against China’s Huawei

So I guess the US isn't going to w/d the extradition request.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...-security.html

OTTAWA—The U.S. government announced nearly two dozen criminal charges against Huawei Technologies Monday in a high-profile news conference slamming the Chinese hi-tech giant, and ratcheting up pressure on Canada which is bearing Beijing’s wrath for arresting Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou.

As Ottawa fights to free two detained Canadians and avoid the death sentence for a third man in China, top Trump cabinet members and American justice officials revealed the formal charges.

They include 13 charges filed by a New York grand jury indictment against Huawei for allegedly misleading multinational banks about Huawei’s relationship to a company doing business in Iran, in violation of U.S. sanctions. The charges include allegations of attempting to obstruct justice by concealing evidence and moving potential witnesses back to China.

“We are deeply grateful to the government of Canada for its assistance and its steadfast commitment to the rule of law,” said acting U.S. attorney general Matthew Whitaker.

Whitaker also announced another series of 10 charges levied by a Seattle grand jury against Huawei for stealing U.S. technology from an American wireless company T-Mobile.

But Whitaker and the U.S. home security secretary especially took aim at Huawei’s alleged attempt to do an end-run around Iran sanctions, saying it jeopardized American national security laws. But Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross tried to distinguish it as a “law enforcement action” distinct from the coming trade talks.

The announcement comes two days before American justice officials were due to send formal documents and evidence to support the extradition of Meng. It also comes before senior Beijing officials were due in Washington in an attempt to reach a trade deal before the U.S. slaps even higher tariffs on Chinese imports at the beginning of March.
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