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      03-03-2017, 05:39 AM   #1
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Throttle Controllers

I have not seen anything about these on this board. Funny thing when I talk to people who started driving after cars all became drive by wire they do even notice the hesitation when the push the gas pedal down. For some reason I am very attuned to it and have put either controllers (sprint booster, pedal commander etc) on all my cars. There is a fairly decent amount of hesitation in sport mode on the i8 so I just got a pedal commander for it. For those of you who have never used throttle controllers they make the car feel faster without adding any power at all. If anyone is interested in knowing the results once I install it, let me know. Probably will not be until next week since I had to move the i8 to one of my storage garages.
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      03-03-2017, 10:51 AM   #2
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Cool!
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      03-04-2017, 12:09 AM   #3
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That sounds very "Airbusish" . Yes, when ready please post the results
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      03-04-2017, 02:53 AM   #4
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Can you pls explain further how it works?
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      03-04-2017, 05:19 AM   #5
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All modern cars use drive by wire meaning your gas pedal is no longer is actually attached to the throttle (they used to be mechanical devises now they are like a video game controller). There is a wiring harness somewhere (with BMW's it is usually a the top of the pedal which is the only thing that attached it to the car) that controls the electronic signal that is sent to the throttle (I am explaining this pretty simply but it is the easiest to understand), which tells the car to go. There is a delay in that signal (some call it drive by wire hesitation) in some cars you can actually count to 2 or 3 before the car moves. These devises remove that delay and mimic the old fashioned pedal to the metal (that saying was when there was metal involved in the throttle) feel. If you ever get the chance to look at a car before they had drive wire (early 80's or before) you will see the gas pedal connections are very different than todays cars. You can also google drive by wire in cars there are many write ups and many about how lots of drivers do not like it. Like most things it was done for supposedly safety issues (remember the Audi that the gas pedal stuck down), but there is usually a price to be paid for those type of things. As I said most people who have been driving less than 20 years probably do not even notice any difference, but for old hyper sensitive gearheads like me it is very annoying.
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      03-04-2017, 06:22 AM   #6
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Hmm ... from what I understand, it just simulates another Sport mode by sending a "deeper push" signal to the engine than the pedal position suggests. It doesn't actually accelerate the response to throttle input (because that's not decided at the pedal, anyway). It just steepens the curve. So it makes it feel to you like the car is snappier.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Would be great to see some actual data. Otherwise, it sounds a little like those tube-shaped magnets they used to sell for your fuel line - to "reorient and align the fuel molecules" before they enter the motor for a more efficient burn.
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      03-04-2017, 10:51 AM   #7
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After 100+ cars with these things installed I do not need data to tell that the lag is gone. They all have a 30 money back guarantee and in 80% of cars out there it takes under 10 minutes to install. Once you try one you will never want to drive a car without it. I don't.
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      03-04-2017, 02:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBreezenovel View Post
All modern cars use drive by wire meaning your gas pedal is no longer is actually attached to the throttle (they used to be mechanical devises now they are like a video game controller). There is a wiring harness somewhere (with BMW's it is usually a the top of the pedal which is the only thing that attached it to the car) that controls the electronic signal that is sent to the throttle (I am explaining this pretty simply but it is the easiest to understand), which tells the car to go. There is a delay in that signal (some call it drive by wire hesitation) in some cars you can actually count to 2 or 3 before the car moves. These devises remove that delay and mimic the old fashioned pedal to the metal (that saying was when there was metal involved in the throttle) feel. If you ever get the chance to look at a car before they had drive wire (early 80's or before) you will see the gas pedal connections are very different than todays cars. You can also google drive by wire in cars there are many write ups and many about how lots of drivers do not like it. Like most things it was done for supposedly safety issues (remember the Audi that the gas pedal stuck down), but there is usually a price to be paid for those type of things. As I said most people who have been driving less than 20 years probably do not even notice any difference, but for old hyper sensitive gearheads like me it is very annoying.
You're seriously suggesting that a car company would implement a system that takes 2 to 3 seconds for an electrical signal to travel a few metres down a cable from the pedal to the throttle body?

Absolute bollocks.

Delays and hesitation in the i8 are due to things such as the two speed trans in the e-motor shifting slowly, or the gas engine firing up, or the gas engine charger/starter having to switch modes, or the computers acting to protect vital mechanical systems from getting trashed.

"Throttle controllers" exist but make the computer think your foot is harder on the gas than it really is - that won't help your gas engine fire up quicker, it might mean the computer is more likely to fire up the engine, certainly won't remove any lag. If you're in sport mode, the engine is running and you shouldn't have any lag anyway.

I'd suggest "Gearheads who find it annoying" should stick to old mechanical cars with carburetors , flat-spots, no fuel-mixture feedback optimisation, worn mechanical timing distributors, lumpy idle, shit fuel economy and having to fine tune things every 5 miles not to mention smelling of WD40.
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      03-04-2017, 06:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGR View Post
You're seriously suggesting that a car company would implement a system that takes 2 to 3 seconds for an electrical signal to travel a few metres down a cable from the pedal to the throttle body?

Absolute bollocks.

Delays and hesitation in the i8 are due to things such as the two speed trans in the e-motor shifting slowly, or the gas engine firing up, or the gas engine charger/starter having to switch modes, or the computers acting to protect vital mechanical systems from getting trashed.

"Throttle controllers" exist but make the computer think your foot is harder on the gas than it really is - that won't help your gas engine fire up quicker, it might mean the computer is more likely to fire up the engine, certainly won't remove any lag. If you're in sport mode, the engine is running and you shouldn't have any lag anyway.

I'd suggest "Gearheads who find it annoying" should stick to old mechanical cars with carburetors , flat-spots, no fuel-mixture feedback optimisation, worn mechanical timing distributors, lumpy idle, shit fuel economy and having to fine tune things every 5 miles not to mention smelling of WD40.
This.

Happy to be convinced otherwise if I'm wrong. But so far, I haven't seen anything that suggests BMW (or other car companies) have little timers installed at the gas pedal that delay the signal. And that's where they'd have to be, because that's where these gimmicks get installed.

I happen to drive good old, carbureted, mechanical-linkage cars, too. I can tell you, there's a lot more lag than in my i8, because engines spend a lot of time revving outside of the respective carb's sweet spot.
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      03-04-2017, 06:53 PM   #10
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All a throttle controller does is increase the intensity of the signal. If that fools someone into thinking it's reacting faster, then that person probably also has the magnetic device attached on the fuel line that miraculously ionizes the gas molecules to give us 90 MPG.
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      03-04-2017, 06:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBreezenovel View Post
After 100+ cars with these things installed I do not need data to tell that the lag is gone. They all have a 30 money back guarantee and in 80% of cars out there it takes under 10 minutes to install. Once you try one you will never want to drive a car without it. I don't.
You drive a 650, right? Are you seriuosly suggesting that in times where 0-60 differences in the thenths of seconds seem to matter to consumers and the motoring press is all over it, BMW would throw a car like yours on the market with a deliberately delayed throttle response, making it easy for Audi and Mercedes to run circles around it? While spending millions in R&D to shorten gearbox shift times?

That seems ludicrous.
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      03-04-2017, 07:02 PM   #12
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I tried devices like these on my cars when I was younger. Was once foolish enough to put it in a perfectly fine M6 after allowing myself to be convinced by another forum member who didn't know any better. The device is idiotic and definitely designed, as MalibuBimmer stated, for the kind of people that stick placebos in their fuel tanks for "improved fuel economy". There's another solution for the problem the OP is having, it's called mashing your foot down harder. At the end it's all the same because even if this device is increasing the rate at which the pedal is reacting to the input of your foot, the max input remains unchanged. So max throttle with or without this device is the same. In other words instead of buying a device to fool your car into thinking that 10% throttle input is now 20% why not just apply the 20% with your foot instead? The "lag" he mentions will still be there anyways, device or none.
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      03-05-2017, 07:44 AM   #13
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People as well as cars have different reactions, because of my condition I am hyper sensitive to many things (light, sound, surrounding, tactile feel) and yes to me there is a lag in my 650, my 440, my supercharged RR, my MB GLE, my dogs Jeep, Panamera, my C7, my Miata RF etc (I could go on but you get the point). I have multiple steering wheels for some of the cars I own too. If none of you feel the lag I'm happy for you, but for me is it there. I will install my controller and be fine, you need not, but drive by wire hesitation is not something that does not exist. Whether you a capable of feeling or noticing it, well that I cannot answer.
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      03-05-2017, 11:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBreezenovel View Post
People as well as cars have different reactions, because of my condition I am hyper sensitive to many things (light, sound, surrounding, tactile feel) and yes to me there is a lag in my 650, my 440, my supercharged RR, my MB GLE, my dogs Jeep, Panamera, my C7, my Miata RF etc (I could go on but you get the point). I have multiple steering wheels for some of the cars I own too. If none of you feel the lag I'm happy for you, but for me is it there. I will install my controller and be fine, you need not, but drive by wire hesitation is not something that does not exist. Whether you a capable of feeling or noticing it, well that I cannot answer.
You missed the point. We all feel the lag, it's there on all cars, for a multitude of reasons. The point is that scientifically and technically the device you speak of won't change that lag. The effect of the throttle responding faster to light inputs may serve as a placebo for you but all its doing is tricking you car into believing the pedal is depressed more than it really is and your mind into thinking the car reacted faster. If you stop to think about our "issue" you'll realize it's there even when you kick down the pedal to max input. Meaning going from 0% throttle input directly to 100% will still result in some hesitation. Logically the device won't change this, it's not going to allow the rest of the car to react faster to your throttle input, all it will do is make the car believe that you applied that 100% throttle even when your foot is not 100% on the gas. Full throttle will still be full throttle and the car will still react to full throttle input the same way it always has, with a hesitation. Only difference will be that full throttle may require less effort from the driver, that's it (not that mashing a pedal requires huge physical effort anyways). Its a useless little trick that doesn't eliminate the issue. If it feels better for you to drive the car with a more sensitive pedal, that's another thing, but it won't improve the cars response time or performance. It just can't simply because that's not what is was built to do, and if they're advertising the device as some type of performance booster then they're simply lying to clueless consumers.
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      03-05-2017, 04:31 PM   #15
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      03-05-2017, 05:30 PM   #16
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So I should send back the sprint booster, magnets, and depolarizing micro coupler as they won't improve the car's performance?
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      03-05-2017, 07:25 PM   #17
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Yup, throttle controller won't improve car's performance.
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      03-05-2017, 07:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
So I should send back the sprint booster, magnets, and depolarizing micro coupler as they won't improve the car's performance?
As long as you keep the flux capacitor.
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      03-06-2017, 09:33 AM   #19
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And the copper and crystals? Santa Claus? Bah humbug. Who needs science in the times of 'alternate facts'.

I would suggest blind test to see what you prefer. Clearly this is a 'driver feel' issue. No one was claiming performance effects.
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      03-06-2017, 05:08 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
And the copper and crystals? Santa Claus? Bah humbug. Who needs science in the times of 'alternate facts'.

I would suggest blind test to see what you prefer. Clearly this is a 'driver feel' issue. No one was claiming performance effects.
That's the debate, actually, isn't it? Nobody has claimed horsepower or torque gains - correct. However, the OP claims that initial hesitation on pedal input gets significantly reduced. If true, it must change 0-60 and drag strip times. That would be a "performance improvement" if performance is defined as what the car delivers against the clock.

Should be an easy one for the motoring press to disect. Or for Mythbusters ...
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      03-07-2017, 05:56 AM   #21
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I installed, and then took Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Loch ness monster for a drive with it on and off. Test results 4 smiles and yup keep it on there. I never claimed it gained power or 0-60 times (not what I wanted it for) or any other magic acts. Just like those of you who bought a box to make the car louder (for a lot more than this thing costs), it is a something that makes the car more enjoyable. In my case being Autistic my sensations are completely different than a neurotypicals (that's you), and what I notice (and find annoying), is also very different. I read just about every thread on this entire section (I do not sleep very much either) and saw some unusual reactions some had to coding (my i8 and 440 are being coded as well as my neighbors 650 on Thursday), so I'm not surprised by the reaction to this. I am a member of lots of car brand Forums (Ferrari, BMW,MB, Corvette, Jeep, Land Rover, Miata, Jaguar etc) and there is at least one or two threads in almost every one about drive by wire hesitation and how to solve it. I have been taking cars apart for over 45 years now and have done modifications (including designing 1 off parts for my own cars) too 100's of cars. I am no expert (I never made it past the 8th grade), but I have learned to use the positive parts of my condition to do many things, if for no other reason to prove I could. not many sane people would buy a 100k + 997s and 24 hrs later take it a part and then rebuild it (at an additional cost of 135K) leaving only about 40% of the original parts in it. I think I read once the average person buys 9.4 cars in a lifetime, I bought 9 last year, and two so far this year. Yes I am different, and the information I wanted to share was that for those of you who do feel what I do, there is a way to get rid of it. My neighbor thought I was wrong too (he is much younger than I am) but after I gave him and installed an extra sprint booster for his 650 he became a believer. Then I had to install one in his 996tt (not all cars are as easy as a modern BMW the 996 requires you to take a bunch of things out up under the dash). Do it or not that is up to you but do not try and tell me what I can and cannot feel because you have no idea how a mind like (and believe me I have no idea how normal people think or feel) mine works. By the way the Loch ness monster made a mess of my front seat!
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      03-07-2017, 08:18 AM   #22
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OP, what company do you work for?
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