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      07-03-2014, 11:17 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
Every so often I find folks having conniptions over or poking fun at folks who wear fake watches. I don't really care if someone wears a fake watch; that's their business. I don't care if they knowingly represent a fake watch they are wearing (not selling) as an authentic one; that's their insecurity issue not mine. If someone willfully shares with me that their watch is fake, I usually just tell them it looks nice and maybe I'll ask them if it keeps good time. I do have a sympathy for folks who get scammed into buying a fake they believe to be authentic. But that's an entirely different matter.

The short is that someone else's fake watch has no real, direct impact on my ability to enjoy my own authentic ones. Yes, yes, I'm aware of the impact fakes have on the costs "authentic" makers incur to defend their trademarks, but if IMO, such assertions of increased cost often are bogus, or if not bogus, red herrings. Those very same authentic makers have plenty of internal inefficiencies they could address to more than make up for the trademark defense costs. Moreover, they spend more resources battling makers of watches that are "similar" rather than clearly fake.

For example, AP recently sued (and won) the maker of a watch that is clearly not an AP RO fake. The "offending" watch was a $300 or so watch that had a similar screw pattern and bezel shape, but the watch is labeled with that other maker's name/logo on the dial. This is what RO did despite the fact that as far as I know, they've not brought suit against one company making watches that are clearly fake ROs and have the AP name/logo on the dial. When I learn things like that, I can't help but wonder how much the issue of "fakes" really matters to the makers. I mean after all, nobody buying a $25 fake AP, or even a $500 one, is even likely to be considering buying a $15K+ authentic one, so there's no reasonable way to make a case for a direct loss of sales revenue due to fakes.

I have had folks who were at my home for social gatherings ask me if some of my art is real, but I've never had inquiries about my watches. Even so, watches, art, furniture, whatever, I don't take well to folks coming into my home and asking me questions of that nature, and I made it very clear to those individuals that with those questions they'd worn out their welcome. This is about how the conversation went.
They: Is that real?
Me: Do you think it's real?
They: Um, yes, it looks real to me.
Me: Would you know the difference if I told you it isn't real?
They: No.
Me: Then how would I know the difference? And why do you care? (before they could answer) You'll pardon me now, won't you?
They: Yes, of course.
Me: Thank you so much. I need to go see if the grass is still growing. Enjoy the rest of your stay.
I didn't see the offending parties leave my home, but I know I didn't see them mingling and chatting with other guests for long after that conversation. (To their credit, the cads at least had the integrity not to make such inquiries behind my back. That would have been worse IMO and upon learning of it, I'd have taken stronger action (not physical) than just letting them know they'd worn out their welcome.)

It doesn't have a damn thing to do with my self image, the items in question or anything else tangible. It has to do with the fact that it's just rude, it's crass; and it's plebeian to ask that sort of thing. It's none of their business; they either like the decor or they don't. I'm just fine either way in that sense; I'm not asking anyone to like my stuff as it's there for my enjoyment not theirs. It's the same with watches. One either likes the look/style a person exhibits or one doesn't.

So what is your view on the matter of fake watches?

All the best.
Are your gatherings anything like this?

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      07-03-2014, 01:01 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by gtron View Post
i didn't read anything but the first post and i can't help but wonder if tony's art in his home is real or not.
I don't own art that wasn't created by the artist who's name appears on the piece. That's true regardless of how much I paid for the piece. Is that what you were wondering?

The art issue is certainly similar to that of fake watches, but there is sometimes one key difference: the owners of some works of art authorize and profit from the creation of the replicas. So it's important to keep that distinction in mind for that is the legal difference between the two. Nonetheless, the legality of the matter doesn't alter whether one has a fake or not. Authorized fakes are still fakes and it's that aspect I sought to deal with because as I've said, the legal aspect isn't in question.

All the best.
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      07-03-2014, 01:31 PM   #267
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I guess it hardly needs pointing out that the legality of owning "fake" anything varies by country. For instance here in the UK (IIRC) owning a fake/copy/replica is not illegal...while creating/distributing/selling is.
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      07-03-2014, 01:33 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
I don't own art that wasn't created by the artist who's name appears on the piece. That's true regardless of how much I paid for the piece. Is that what you were wondering?

The art issue is certainly similar to that of fake watches, but there is sometimes one key difference: the owners of some works of art authorize and profit from the creation of the replicas. So it's important to keep that distinction in mind for that is the legal difference between the two. Nonetheless, the legality of the matter doesn't alter whether one has a fake or not. Authorized fakes are still fakes and it's that aspect I sought to deal with because as I've said, the legal aspect isn't in question.

All the best.
thanks for curing my curiosity.

i couldn't do the fake thing myself just because i personally would know it's fake and that's enough for me.
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      07-04-2014, 11:35 PM   #269
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13 pages in... Yes it clearly matters
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      07-05-2014, 11:34 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tanglewood View Post
Apples and oranges my friend.

This is a forum for discussions, so explanations are what we do. To dismiss something because someone is trying to explain a position is to be insensitive, rude, and largely unappreciative.
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Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
+1 this is far from an ideal means of communication and things are often misunderstood.
People with fake watches are spending a lot more time explaining why they are OK owning a fake watch vs. people with real watches explaining why they prefer owning the real deal.
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      07-05-2014, 12:37 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P1et View Post
People with fake watches are spending a lot more time explaining why they are OK owning a fake watch vs. people with real watches explaining why they prefer owning the real deal.
Off your high horse. Please. It's a forum, get over yourself.
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      07-05-2014, 05:35 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tanglewood View Post
Off your high horse. Please. It's a forum, get over yourself.
No need to get upset mate. It's just a forum.
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      07-05-2014, 08:10 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by P1et View Post
People with fake watches are spending a lot more time explaining why they are OK owning a fake watch vs. people with real watches explaining why they prefer owning the real deal.
Sig worthy

You win the forum
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      07-07-2014, 03:05 PM   #274
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I don't get why he's on a "high horse" because of that statement. I mean, it is true! Inherently if you own something fake you will typically do some level of justification for going that route. Then there are the people who just wont do it because they prefer real, even if real means cheaper.

Me personally, I don't like fake stuff. I don't like non functional vents on cars, and I don't like fake watches. Buy something nice in your price range and be happy. Save up longer if you really must have something another level up.
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      07-07-2014, 04:08 PM   #275
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I suppose we all have a threshold on spending. Some find value in a $6k watch while others may like the look, but don't see it as anything more than a tool to tell time (..hence the decision to buy a knock-off). There are some material goods that I am unwilling to represent as the real thing (..wheels, clothing, etc.), but there are other things that I just wouldn't pay the premium for, and would be willing to buy the knock-off item (..aerodynamic parts for cars, etc.). It's largely a value assessment.
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      07-07-2014, 04:41 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedlinePSI View Post
I don't get why he's on a "high horse" because of that statement.
It's really quite simple. The OP posed the question, "So what is your view on the matter of fake watches?".

Without saying it outright, P1et dismissed all explanations made in favor of fake watches, stating that "when you are explaining, you're losing". I don't know about you or others, but to me that statement comes off as very high-brow and dismissive.

I simply reminded him that's it's a forum FOR such discussions (and explanations), so dismissive remarks are kind of rude and out of line.

If P1et was simply making an observation and not insinuating anything then that is 100% my bad and I apologize for speaking out. But it would be rare to see a statement like that not have a deeper meaning, so I felt it necessary to defend those explainers.

In the end we are all car enthusiasts on an internet forum, so cheers to all!
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      07-07-2014, 05:20 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tanglewood View Post
It's really quite simple. The OP posed the question, "So what is your view on the matter of fake watches?".

Without saying it outright, P1et dismissed all explanations made in favor of fake watches, stating that "when you are explaining, you're losing". I don't know about you or others, but to me that statement comes off as very high-brow and dismissive.

I simply reminded him that's it's a forum FOR such discussions (and explanations), so dismissive remarks are kind of rude and out of line.

If P1et was simply making an observation and not insinuating anything then that is 100% my bad and I apologize for speaking out. But it would be rare to see a statement like that not have a deeper meaning, so I felt it necessary to defend those explainers.

In the end we are all car enthusiasts on an internet forum, so cheers to all!
I take it you are a fake watch owner? Also, I think you've proven the statement that when you are explaining you are losing.
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      07-07-2014, 08:34 PM   #278
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Every loser wants something for nothing. Especially the marque the name the prestige withouth having put in the effort or footing the bill that's requisite in owning a famous Swiss watch.

Then threres the frugal fakester, who refuses to put down 6-12k or more on a watch because he'd rather "invest" that money. Cool brah, but I bet if someone sold you a replica stock or a fraudulent investment, you'd probably wouldn't talk your way into accepting it as a good thing. So take a hammer to your fake Rolex and pick up a Michael Kors.
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      07-08-2014, 05:07 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedlinePSI View Post
...Inherently if you own something fake you will typically do some level of justification for going that route. ....
At the risk of sounding argumentative, I would have thought it'd take quite a lot more justification to pony up $8K+ for a watch, of all things than it would to fork over $30 to buy a fake version thereof. I suspect that it would take little more than opportunity knocking to do just that.

Whereas the fake watch purchase seems it could easily be an impulse buy doable by just about anyone, buying an authentic XYZ pricey watch is not remotely whimsical for the overwhelming majority of folks. I'd dare say that even those of us who have on several occasions spent large sums on watches don't just decide to spend that much for a watch because an odd thought crossed our minds over dinner or in a boring meeting.

It's one thing to walk down the street and happen across a vendor selling fake "whatevers" and haggle a few bucks off the price and buy it. There's likely a sense of "fun" that some folks get from the experience alone, notwithstanding what satisfaction they take in the watch itself. It's wholly another to walk down the street and see that Piaget in the shop window and acting on one's compulsion to buy it. Not to say nobody has that as their reality, but it's just not one most folks will have, and yet the thrill of the impulse buy will be the same for the buyers of either watch. That's something that's price independent.

All the best.
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      07-08-2014, 06:24 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P1et View Post
And old boss of mine once told me that when you're explaining, you're losing. .
Thats one of those cute platitudes that people trot out when they don't have a coherent contra-argument and/or the ability to make it.
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      07-08-2014, 06:56 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Thats one of those cute platitudes that people trot out when they don't have a coherent contra-argument and/or the ability to make it.
So don't explain - state it as the unequivocal truth.

Which invites the attack.. "If you're attacking, you're losing" ..?

To the uninterested observer, it's just two people fighting.

Who shouldn't laugh otherwise more-so uninterested observers of the uninterested observers would then proceed to state: "Don't you have anything better to do than to watch others fight?"

and so on, so on
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      07-08-2014, 07:56 AM   #282
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Quote:
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Thats one of those cute platitudes that people trot out when they don't have a coherent contra-argument and/or the ability to make it.
+1
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      07-08-2014, 12:49 PM   #283
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So basically wearing a fake watch is the same as putting fake vents on your 3 series and labeling it as an M5.....
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      07-08-2014, 01:19 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
At the risk of sounding argumentative, I would have thought it'd take quite a lot more justification to pony up $8K+ for a watch, of all things than it would to fork over $30 to buy a fake version thereof. I suspect that it would take little more than opportunity knocking to do just that.

Whereas the fake watch purchase seems it could easily be an impulse buy doable by just about anyone, buying an authentic XYZ pricey watch is not remotely whimsical for the overwhelming majority of folks. I'd dare say that even those of us who have on several occasions spent large sums on watches don't just decide to spend that much for a watch because an odd thought crossed our minds over dinner or in a boring meeting.

It's one thing to walk down the street and happen across a vendor selling fake "whatevers" and haggle a few bucks off the price and buy it. There's likely a sense of "fun" that some folks get from the experience alone, notwithstanding what satisfaction they take in the watch itself. It's wholly another to walk down the street and see that Piaget in the shop window and acting on one's compulsion to buy it. Not to say nobody has that as their reality, but it's just not one most folks will have, and yet the thrill of the impulse buy will be the same for the buyers of either watch. That's something that's price independent.

All the best.
+1

When you knowingly buy a fake watch it is mostly for fun. It's cheap enough to be an impulse buy or something you'd like to try out. Sometimes you like the style enough to go and buy the real deal. Other times you have a laugh and throw it into the box of toy watches to give away or trash.

It's a piece of fashion, just as you'll find the same style and color shirts at Macys as you find at Saks, you can get the same style watches at different price brackets. The guy who can afford a $100 watch is not the guy who can afford a $8k watch. That guy is not a watch collector, know or care about a company's heritage or particular watch movement. They just want something that looks cool.
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      07-08-2014, 01:21 PM   #285
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Losers and winners in every argument. If you're a fakester, I don't see how you can be a winner. That shit is fake, and if you accept fakery in your life, well that speaks volumes for you as a person.
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      07-08-2014, 01:49 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
At the risk of sounding argumentative, I would have thought it'd take quite a lot more justification to pony up $8K+ for a watch, of all things than it would to fork over $30 to buy a fake version thereof. I suspect that it would take little more than opportunity knocking to do just that.

Whereas the fake watch purchase seems it could easily be an impulse buy doable by just about anyone, buying an authentic XYZ pricey watch is not remotely whimsical for the overwhelming majority of folks. I'd dare say that even those of us who have on several occasions spent large sums on watches don't just decide to spend that much for a watch because an odd thought crossed our minds over dinner or in a boring meeting.

It's one thing to walk down the street and happen across a vendor selling fake "whatevers" and haggle a few bucks off the price and buy it. There's likely a sense of "fun" that some folks get from the experience alone, notwithstanding what satisfaction they take in the watch itself. It's wholly another to walk down the street and see that Piaget in the shop window and acting on one's compulsion to buy it. Not to say nobody has that as their reality, but it's just not one most folks will have, and yet the thrill of the impulse buy will be the same for the buyers of either watch. That's something that's price independent.

All the best.
Well, yes you make a good point. There is usually at least some level of justification (both to yourself, and potentially others) that goes on when spending a large amount of money on something. So I guess it happens on both ends, just for different reasons. I'd much rather have to justify spending some extra coin, which is really just being thorough and hopefully smart, than to face the fact that I'm trying to fake a more expensive product. And more importantly, WHY would I be doing that!?
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