[deutsch100]

Originally Posted by FultonMDUSA

Software features such as Cabin Overheat Protection mitigate that issue on my Tesla. If the cabin gets over 90-100F (temp settable), the A/C turns on and keeps the vehicle relatively cool so it doesn't have to blast at maximum fan speed when you return.

Now of course, on both my iX and MY I can go in the app to pre-condition the temperature. But if I forget to do it on my iX on a hot summer day, I'm returning to a very hot vehicle (although that is somewhat mitigated by the fantastic ventilated cooling seats on my iX that are not available on the MY).

This is true about cabin overheat protection, but you must make sure you select A/C and not just ventilation, and on my 2021 Model Y Performance....if a certain amount of predetermined time/days passed and cabin overheat protection did not self activate, it self turned itself off. So, then on a hot day...it was not active.

Very strange system/feature and design, and also used more battery than I thought it would or should.

[deutsch100]

Originally Posted by drbluedevil

I got rear-ended a month ago and have been in a Tesla model 3 for a rental.

I agree with what's been said: it's basically a nice computer (but without carplay) on top of a crappy car. Terrible road noise, poor engineering (the thing is an echo chamber; nobody bothered to consider resonance when they built the interior), low build quality, etc. And even the "nice computer" element is nearly worthless to me without Carplay.

I love the iX, but they're saying it might be "many months" before the repair is done. I'm done. I'm trading it in for an X5. They can take me from custom order to delivery in under 4 weeks. Which means if anything happens to it, then the repair similarly will be easy. I'll revisit EVs once parts aren't a raging nightmare.

Our son had a pretty bad accident in his i4. No structural damage/frame/suspension (thank god). But laser lights, hood, bumper, sensors, cameras, etc...

Sitting down? $30,000 of all cosmetic parts and needing to repaint the hood and bumper. $30,000!!!

And we have been waiting for parts for 2 months now! Unreal. The dealer & BMW body shop said iX and i4 and now i7 parts....just totally out of stock worldwide. Sucks!!!

[FultonMDUSA]

Originally Posted by deutsch100

And we have been waiting for parts for 2 months now! Unreal. The dealer & BMW body shop said iX and i4 and now i7 parts....just totally out of stock worldwide. Sucks!!!

Despite having both a MY and an iX, I haven't sold my ICE vehicle yet even though it never gets used (except for when I drive it once/week to keep the battery alive). I know if something happens to either of my EVs, it is likely to be out of commission for a very long time.

[07e92]

I keep my X for the supercharging network, flacon wing door, and its software, i.e. an iPad on 4 wheels :P

I bought the iX M60 because I would never spent that much $$$ on a Tesla Plaid i.e a faster lego car, because I already have 1 and I want a real “car”.

[Barry123]

Originally Posted by FultonMDUSA

Despite having both a MY and an iX, I haven't sold my ICE vehicle yet even though it never gets used (except for when I drive it once/week to keep the battery alive). I know if something happens to either of my EVs, it is likely to be out of commission for a very long time.

I have a 2006 Toyota SUV that I keep for the same reason (and also when my out of town daughter comes to visit, she has something to drive). It came in handy when my Model S was held hostage by Tesla for 6 months, waiting for an air strut replacement.

I tend to drive it about once/month and put it on a trickle charger every couple of weeks.

[07e92]

Same and with a bigger family over 2, some members, their life style may not allow extra time in spending on charging.

Originally Posted by FultonMDUSA

Despite having both a MY and an iX, I haven't sold my ICE vehicle yet even though it never gets used (except for when I drive it once/week to keep the battery alive). I know if something happens to either of my EVs, it is likely to be out of commission for a very long time.

[drbluedevil]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

Sorry to hear that your car was in an accident.

What exactly did they say would need so long? What part of it being an EV makes it longer to repair than an X5? (i.e. did the battery get damaged and there is an extra wait time for those?)

Being able to order receive an X5 in 4 weeks does not guarantee quick repairs or even quick parts delivery... you will still often need parts shipped from Germany, even if the car is manufactured in SC. They will NOT send you a part meant for the factory to repair your car.

There're about replacement 100 parts needed. Unfortunately, there's no battery, motor, or carbon fiber damage. Just the aluminum internal bumper, body panels, the entire liftgate and glass, and the sensors. All told, they started with a $43k estimate that's been revised down to $26k.

Last year, I had an X5m under an extended warranty. I heard a random machine-gun-like sound one day, so I took it in, and they recommended a total engine replacement (under warranty). That $49,000 repair included a new engine and new turbos being shipped from Germany. I had the vehicle back in less than 4 weeks, and I had an X6 as my loaner. Not too bad.

Now, I have the iX out of commission for potentially half a year. And I'm in a Tesla model 3. It's not a horrible car, but I'm paying for first class and getting economy. And when I pointed that out, State Farm's response was a polite but firm "f*** you, you will eat this and like it"

Further, I can understand losing a month or so for a big repair, but 6 months? My car depreciates $1500/month, as it isn't even a year old. I'm 100% going to sue for the $9000 of lost value if insurance doesn't step up and compensate me for that (they've already admitted their client is completely at fault) in addition to the diminished value of the vehicle now that the Carfax is tainted.

And at the end of the day, I'm a busy professional. I don't have time for this nonsense, and I can't drive around in the Humpty Dumpty of vehicles that all the king's horses and all the king's men can't put back together again.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by drbluedevil

There're about replacement 100 parts needed. Unfortunately, there's no battery, motor, or carbon fiber damage. Just the aluminum internal bumper, body panels, the entire liftgate and glass, and the sensors. All told, they started with a $43k estimate that's been revised down to $26k.

Last year, I had an X5m under an extended warranty. I heard a random machine-gun-like sound one day, so I took it in, and they recommended a total engine replacement (under warranty). That $49,000 repair included a new engine and new turbos being shipped from Germany. I had the vehicle back in less than 4 weeks, and I had an X6 as my loaner. Not too bad.

Now, I have the iX out of commission for potentially half a year. And I'm in a Tesla model 3. It's not a horrible car, but I'm paying for first class and getting economy. And when I pointed that out, State Farm's response was a polite but firm "f*** you, you will eat this and like it"

Further, I can understand losing a month or so for a big repair, but 6 months? My car depreciates $1500/month, as it isn't even a year old. I'm 100% going to sue for the $9000 of lost value if insurance doesn't step up and compensate me for that (they've already admitted their client is completely at fault) in addition to the diminished value of the vehicle now that the Carfax is tainted.

And at the end of the day, I'm a busy professional. I don't have time for this nonsense, and I can't drive around in the Humpty Dumpty of vehicles that all the king's horses and all the king's men can't put back together again.

I get being busy and not wanting to deal with problems. However it doesn't sound to me from the details you provided that it has anything to do with the car being an EV.

Even if they have to wait for two different part shipments for the full 3 weeks, how do they explain the other 20 weeks worth of time to repair the vehicle? Does the actual estimated repair time total to that, cause I'd be surprised if that was the case. They might not have the staff required at whatever place it is being repaired at to work on it quickly. You can maybe look for alternatives, but that of course takes time and effort.

The loaner situation depends on how insurance works in your area of the world. Where I am (no fault insurance), that is provided by your own insurance and you get what you prepay for and agree to. But in your case, it may be provided by the other party's insurance which makes it harder to get what you'd like/need. You can argue with them that the vehicle doesn't meet your needs, but you need something based on specs. If you had a 6-7 passenger vehicle, you can try to force that; but for a model 3 vs iX, your only real argument is the trunk not fitting something you need to carry (say a huge toolbox for work that barely fits in the iX trunk and cannot fit in the Model 3 trunk/frunk). Of course that may result in them offering you a different vehicle that you may dislike more than the Model 3 so proceed with caution if you go down this road. Around here, if your car is being repaired at a dealer or via a dealer's body shop, often times they will hook you up with their own loaner free of charge so you can get a better one than insurance would cover and for longer; essentially no deadline as long as your car is being worked on. So if yours is with a dealer, they might be able to offer you the same.

[drbluedevil]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

I get being busy and not wanting to deal with problems. However it doesn't sound to me from the details you provided that it has anything to do with the car being an EV.

Even if they have to wait for two different part shipments for the full 3 weeks, how do they explain the other 20 weeks worth of time to repair the vehicle? Does the actual estimated repair time total to that, cause I'd be surprised if that was the case. They might not have the staff required at whatever place it is being repaired at to work on it quickly. You can maybe look for alternatives, but that of course takes time and effort.

The loaner situation depends on how insurance works in your area of the world. Where I am (no fault insurance), that is provided by your own insurance and you get what you prepay for and agree to. But in your case, it may be provided by the other party's insurance which makes it harder to get what you'd like/need. You can argue with them that the vehicle doesn't meet your needs, but you need something based on specs. If you had a 6-7 passenger vehicle, you can try to force that; but for a model 3 vs iX, your only real argument is the trunk not fitting something you need to carry (say a huge toolbox for work that barely fits in the iX trunk and cannot fit in the Model 3 trunk/frunk). Of course that may result in them offering you a different vehicle that you may dislike more than the Model 3 so proceed with caution if you go down this road. Around here, if your car is being repaired at a dealer or via a dealer's body shop, often times they will hook you up with their own loaner free of charge so you can get a better one than insurance would cover and for longer; essentially no deadline as long as your car is being worked on. So if yours is with a dealer, they might be able to offer you the same.

You’re right. It has nothing to do with it being an EV specifically, it has to do with the vehicle’s rarity and lack of available parts/supply chain issues. My insurance agent says all EVs are like this currently (including Teslas). Like I said, I had a major X5m problem last year (when the supply chain issues were worse than they are currently), and they were able to get an entirely new engine from Germany and do the repair start to finish in under a month. I suspect the same will be the case with a base X5 today. I’m sad about it. I love electric. But I need problems like this in my life solved in days. Not months.

Plus the LCI X5 is quite nice. Not a bad tide-me-over for a couple years until things improve…and maybe I’ll go back to electric. I’d get the PHEV, but the wait for a new build is 6+ months versus 3 weeks (!!!) for a new ICE one.

[NoClosedDoors]

Originally Posted by drbluedevil

There're about replacement 100 parts needed. Unfortunately, there's no battery, motor, or carbon fiber damage. Just the aluminum internal bumper, body panels, the entire liftgate and glass, and the sensors. All told, they started with a $43k estimate that's been revised down to $26k.

Last year, I had an X5m under an extended warranty. I heard a random machine-gun-like sound one day, so I took it in, and they recommended a total engine replacement (under warranty). That $49,000 repair included a new engine and new turbos being shipped from Germany. I had the vehicle back in less than 4 weeks, and I had an X6 as my loaner. Not too bad.

Now, I have the iX out of commission for potentially half a year. And I'm in a Tesla model 3. It's not a horrible car, but I'm paying for first class and getting economy. And when I pointed that out, State Farm's response was a polite but firm "f*** you, you will eat this and like it"

Further, I can understand losing a month or so for a big repair, but 6 months? My car depreciates $1500/month, as it isn't even a year old. I'm 100% going to sue for the $9000 of lost value if insurance doesn't step up and compensate me for that (they've already admitted their client is completely at fault) in addition to the diminished value of the vehicle now that the Carfax is tainted.

And at the end of the day, I'm a busy professional. I don't have time for this nonsense, and I can't drive around in the Humpty Dumpty of vehicles that all the king's horses and all the king's men can't put back together again.

Bro, I’d be asking for a supplement to get it totaled out to be honest with you.

With the new rates, I have no doubt that you could get a new unit considerably cheaper than what you’re paying now.

[Blastphemy]

Originally Posted by VirtualGuitars

Please allow me to summarize this entire thread in a very simple, easy-to-understand way:

BMW: ✅
Tesla: ��

I wouldn't say that's accurate. As someone who has owned various Teslas since 2016, I can attest that there are many things I miss in my BMW iX M60 that Tesla has. But there are also many problems with Tesla that I'm grateful are not present in the iX.

If only we lived in a perfect world where we could take the best of each vehicle and combine it into a perfect SUV. Alas, that may never happen.

For a while I had toyed with the idea of getting a Cadillac Lyriq AWD to replace my Model Y or my wife's Model X, but Cadillac seems to be one of the manufacturers that does everything in its power to not have any good feature Tesla has. You want robust Tesla acceleration? Not in the Lyriq! You want Surround Vision Recording? Nope - too close to Tesla's recordable 360-degree dash cams, so it gets deleted from the Lyriq! The list goes on and on. If Tesla has it, Cadillac doesn't want it.

Thankfully, BMW isn't like that. A lot of features I enjoy in my Teslas are also present in my M60, plus the more mature fit & finish, better A/C, ridiculously good Bowers & Wilkins audio, quiet cabin, head-up display, and Apple CarPlay integration.

But I miss all the other features that make Teslas so great – the robust dash cam recording system, Auto Pilot, Full Self Driving (much better than some make it out to be based on YouTube videos), rear video on the screen while driving, blind spot cam turning on when I signal a lane change, longer range, frunk, Dog Mode, Cabin Overheat Protection, Summon, BioHazard Defense Mode (I refuse to call it BioWeapon mode), fewer Infotainment nanny restrictions, green light chime, no on/off switch, heck... even fart mode! And while I am impressed with the iX M60's acceleration, it feels less refined than my Model X Performance. I can't put into words why; the best I can do is say it feels a touch more spastic to me.

I'm hoping BMW gets on board with GM and Ford so that I can have access to the Supercharger network once again. Then, at least, I won't miss that anymore!

Also, I'm optimistic the BMW Highway Assistant system will eventually work as well as Tesla's Auto Pilot in the new 2024s. I really do miss being able to put my car in self drive when I need a few seconds to take care of something distracting. And I like that BMW's system is hands-free, unlike Tesla. But I'll miss the automatic lane changes and Navigate on AutoPilot until BMW adds similar functionality.

[FultonMDUSA]

Originally Posted by Blastphemy

Also, I'm optimistic the BMW Highway Assistant system will eventually work as well as Tesla's Auto Pilot in the new 2024s. I really do miss being able to put my car in self drive when I need a few seconds to take care of something distracting. And I like that BMW's system is hands-free, unlike Tesla. But I'll miss the automatic lane changes and Navigate on AutoPilot until BMW adds similar functionality.

It's understandable that BMW's software isn't quite as developed as Tesla. But what is nearly unforgivable to me is that our 2022 - 2023 iX were deployed with hardware so underpowered that they will *never* be able to perform many software based tasks that Teslas have been or are currently able to do since the introduction of HW3 in 2019.

[VikasMG]

Originally Posted by VirtualGuitars

Please allow me to summarize this entire thread in a very simple, easy-to-understand way:

BMW: ✅
Tesla: 💩

🙂

[drbluedevil]

Green light chime is legit.

[darylp310]

Originally Posted by drbluedevil

Green light chime is legit.

The iX has the capability to detect stop lights and the original plan was for drivers assistant to stop and go against stop lights as well.

I read somewhere that regulatory regulations are preventing this. It’s too bad since it would make DAPP much easier to use on city streets. I hate how it just blows through intersections if there’s no lead car in front of you. Otherwise I prefer it to how Tesla does their auto-pilot.

[FultonMDUSA]

Originally Posted by darylp310

The iX has the capability to detect stop lights and the original plan was for drivers assistant to stop and go against stop lights as well.

I read somewhere that regulatory regulations are preventing this. It’s too bad since it would make DAPP most easier to use on city streets. I hate how it just blows through intersections if there’s no lead car in front of you. Otherwise I prefer it to how Tesla does their auto-pilot.

If this is true, BMW can still simply program a "ding" when a red light turns green. Or beep when a green light turns yellow. Shouldn't require regulatory approval.

[NotASheepRB]

Originally Posted by darylp310

The iX has the capability to detect stop lights and the original plan was for drivers assistant to stop and go against stop lights as well.

I read somewhere that regulatory regulations are preventing this. It’s too bad since it would make DAPP much easier to use on city streets. I hate how it just blows through intersections if there’s no lead car in front of you. Otherwise I prefer it to how Tesla does their auto-pilot.

That is Full Self Drive (FSD) on Tesla that notifies you of green lights, isnt it? My Autopilot (2019 Model 3) Autopilot did not recognize street lights.

[FultonMDUSA]

Originally Posted by NotASheepRB

That is Full Self Drive (FSD) on Tesla that notifies you of green lights, isnt it? My Autopilot (2019 Model 3) Autopilot did not recognize street lights.

https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/84...ers-in-2022-20

[NotASheepRB]

I guess this is an innovative feature Tesla rolled out through OTA while I am still waiting for my first update after 10 months. I love my ‘22 iX, but unimpressed with the immediate obsolescence and non-existent OTA updates.

[10dot]

Originally Posted by NotASheepRB

I guess this is an innovative feature Tesla rolled out through OTA while I am still waiting for my first update after 10 months. I love my ‘22 iX, but unimpressed with the immediate obsolescence and non-existent OTA updates.

While I do love the "fail fast" model Tesla follows in terms of software, it has some huge downsides as well. My model x driver's side window only fully rolls up in auto mode about half the time since the most recent update. I haven't bothered to take it in for service because that kind of annoying little software glitch post-update is... common.

The FSD beta is legitimately impressive technology in a lot of ways... but it also can radically change behavior between updates. If you're actually trying to use it as a driving aid, having it significantly change how it does certain things pretty frequently isn't so great.

And as for immediate obsolescence, since Tesla really doesn't do model years they constantly add stuff even to already-purchased builds. A good example is the tilting screen... when I ordered my refresh X that was one of the promised features. The car I got doesn't have it, but cars built after X date in 2022 (I forget the month) do. I'm still kinda angry about this one TBH.

[mfdutra]

I gave up on the Model X after some serious and dangerous phantom braking events, with no cars ahead of me for miles. Totally unacceptable.

I've been driving BMWs with adaptive cruise control for years and they just work.

Their software reliability is just clown town. Nobody cares about reliability. Engineers only care about new features.

[NomoTesla]

BUT But but Tesla has laminated glass!!!! Doesn't make a damn bit of difference, it's still the noisiest rattlecage on the planet. Have you ever stood outside of a Tesla while the owner was on a hands-free call? You can hear EVERYTHING outside. The entire conversation by both parties! I've been known to trade a few stocks based on information gleaned by just lingering in a parking lot!

Tesla really don't know what they are doing when it comes to NVH. They probably don't even have a real team on that stuff because they are more interested in creating rectangular steering wheels that nobody can use.