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      04-01-2016, 07:47 PM   #155
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Again, I'm not against it. I'm one of the first for it. I guess they didn't teach you how to read. I just don't like it shoved in my face 24/7.

My problem with BET was stated above. Again. You don't read. It's racist in its concept. A station devoted to a race. If there was WTV channel, or the white channel, there would be left outcrys of racism all day long. Univision is a different language. CMT a culture. Only BET is a race so by definition is racism.

Blacks want equality. So be equal. No special treatment. No affirmative action. No special awards, months, channels. Do it all with everyone else.

Another example is women wanting the right to fight in combat. If they have it they should also be subject to the draft. Ask women if they want that too and see how fast they get the um, ughhh look on their face.
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      04-01-2016, 07:57 PM   #156
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As for the conservative sites and commentators you listed, I don't even know who half of them are. One thing I do know is you have no clue what the TEA party is. Sad.
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      04-01-2016, 08:12 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
As for the conservative sites and commentators you listed, I don't even know who half of them are. One thing I do know is you have no clue what the TEA party is. Sad.
lol @ you telling someone that they don't have a clue .... sad
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      04-01-2016, 09:28 PM   #158
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OK so just so you understand, TEA party stands for Taxed Enough Already. It's for smaller government less taxes. Not necessariy conservative socially or any other way. Just stop taking my hard earned money and redistributing it. Basically exact opposite of Bernie.
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      04-01-2016, 09:31 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Again, I'm not against it. I'm one of the first for it. I guess they didn't teach you how to read. I just don't like it shoved in my face 24/7.

My problem with BET was stated above. Again. You don't read. It's racist in its concept. A station devoted to a race. If there was WTV channel, or the white channel, there would be left outcrys of racism all day long. Univision is a different language. CMT a culture. Only BET is a race so by definition is racism.

Blacks want equality. So be equal. No special treatment. No affirmative action. No special awards, months, channels. Do it all with everyone else.

Another example is women wanting the right to fight in combat. If they have it they should also be subject to the draft. Ask women if they want that too and see how fast they get the um, ughhh look on their face.
if you're "for it" why does it matter if it's "shoved" in your face 24/7. Must have your DVR locked on Logo 24/7.

how naive of you to think it's an even playing for blacks, today. it's comical how narrow/shallow your thinking is. do you know the reason(s) for AA? who actually benefits from it? that's it's NOT exclusive to blacks? here's the definition: an action or policy favoring those who tend to suffer from discrimination, especially in relation to employment or education; positive discrimination. I read well enough to know that it does not specially say "blacks". I'm guessing you're in that small minority that believes discrimination is a fairy tale. It speaks to any/all people - you know, the people you generally take issue with: THE blacks, THE gays, THE women, etc. Remember, there was a time when schools were segregated (which is a legal term). Housing? Etc. All things that help communities build wealth.

By the way - do you have an issue with the "legacy preference" programs universities (e.g., U of Miami, Bucknell, Yale) have in place. Is that not a form of AA?

Let's take AA off the table to address this "even" wish of yours. Should a non-white and/or woman receive the same compensation for equal work as their white and/or male counterpart?
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      04-01-2016, 09:40 PM   #160
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They do. In fact women get more than men. That myth has been debunked again and again. If a woman or a black does a job for the same amount of time they make equal or better wages than white males on average. The myth makers say they have lower than average wages. Why? They do. But not from discrimination. Because women take time off to have babies which puts career advancement on hold. And women typically choose lower paying professions. And blacks typically don't have the educational background of white counterparts. And what you described as AA definition IS racist and discrimination.

If you track a woman who doesn't have maternity leave or a black person vs a white male in the same profession they get paI'd equal or more on average.
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      04-01-2016, 09:42 PM   #161
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AA was created when this stuff did exist. It doesn't. Legacy I don't agree with but that would also apply to legacy blacks, women, etc. So it's fair.
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      04-01-2016, 09:43 PM   #162
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I'm guessing you're not old enough to remember what real discrimination was. I am.
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      04-01-2016, 09:58 PM   #163
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For your supposition to be correct, paying women or minorities less would have to be common and widespread. Large corporations would have to have this as the norm. Only then would the figures you and the left use be true. Please show me proof of this. Cite one example of a US corporation convicted of doing this on a regular basis as part of the corporate culture and not citing individual incidents that can and always will happen perpetrated by malignant individuals. It's illegal and it doesn't exist. Quite the contrary, every boss I've worked for over the past 20 yrs in the financial industry has actively sought women and minorities and is frustrated they don't have enough candidates that qualify.
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      04-01-2016, 11:24 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
They do. In fact women get more than men. That myth has been debunked again and again. If a woman or a black does a job for the same amount of time they make equal or better wages than white males on average. The myth makers say they have lower than average wages. Why? They do. But not from discrimination. Because women take time off to have babies which puts career advancement on hold. And women typically choose lower paying professions. And blacks typically don't have the educational background of white counterparts. And what you described as AA definition IS racist and discrimination.

If you track a woman who doesn't have maternity leave or a black person vs a white male in the same profession they get paI'd equal or more on average.
In what profession?
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      04-01-2016, 11:34 PM   #165
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In what profession?
All as a group. By choice not discrimination. It's more of a cultural and economic thing. They have equal education to their work peers. Most just don't have as much as their counterparts. In k-12 it's not cool to get good grades. The dropout rate is high and college attendance low as a group. If you look at similar education levels, the income is similar.
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      04-01-2016, 11:39 PM   #166
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Guess you picked one line of my entire 10 point post that you didn't agree with due to me not explaining myself and overlooked the other 9 that also make my point repeatedly. Hope that helps.
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      04-02-2016, 01:39 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obe100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Again, I'm not against it. I'm one of the first for it. I guess they didn't teach you how to read. I just don't like it shoved in my face 24/7.

My problem with BET was stated above. Again. You don't read. It's racist in its concept. A station devoted to a race. If there was WTV channel, or the white channel, there would be left outcrys of racism all day long. Univision is a different language. CMT a culture. Only BET is a race so by definition is racism.

Blacks want equality. So be equal. No special treatment. No affirmative action. No special awards, months, channels. Do it all with everyone else.

Another example is women wanting the right to fight in combat. If they have it they should also be subject to the draft. Ask women if they want that too and see how fast they get the um, ughhh look on their face.
if you're "for it" why does it matter if it's "shoved" in your face 24/7. Must have your DVR locked on Logo 24/7.

how naive of you to think it's an even playing for blacks, today. it's comical how narrow/shallow your thinking is. do you know the reason(s) for AA? who actually benefits from it? that's it's NOT exclusive to blacks? here's the definition: an action or policy favoring those who tend to suffer from discrimination, especially in relation to employment or education; positive discrimination. I read well enough to know that it does not specially say "blacks". I'm guessing you're in that small minority that believes discrimination is a fairy tale. It speaks to any/all people - you know, the people you generally take issue with: THE blacks, THE gays, THE women, etc. Remember, there was a time when schools were segregated (which is a legal term). Housing? Etc. All things that help communities build wealth.

By the way - do you have an issue with the "legacy preference" programs universities (e.g., U of Miami, Bucknell, Yale) have in place. Is that not a form of AA?

Let's take AA off the table to address this "even" wish of yours. Should a non-white and/or woman receive the same compensation for equal work as their white and/or male counterpart?
Legacy preference programs are in place because they encourage alumni loyalty, and therefore donations to the schools - they are huge fundraising programs. It's not at all AA.

What would it take, in your opinion, for the playing field to be level, in the area of employment? We've had AA in education and employment for 40+ years now - has it been successful or not?
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      04-02-2016, 09:05 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Guess you picked one line of my entire 10 point post that you didn't agree with due to me not explaining myself and overlooked the other 9 that also make my point repeatedly. Hope that helps.
It's actually the one that is most egregious. And you are making a specific statement regarding working and professions, not a general statement about education.. Your explanation switches to a GENERAL answer from my SPECIFIC request about professions.. Apples-Apples, Oranges-Oranges, not Apples-Oranges. Please keep in mind that I'm a fellow conservative believer but some of these statements are a bit beyond the pale.

Similarly, the statement that discrimination no longer exist. I need look no further than boards on which I sit or have sat. Racism and Discrimination are like Theoretical Physics and Applied Physics. Racism is alive and well but discrimination has lessened, but not been eliminated. EVERYONE harbors a bit of racism. Discrimination still exists. All of these things still exist. Period. End of story. To say that they do not is really sticking you head in the sand.

I know that you are interracially married and I applaud you for marrying the person of your choice despite social pressures. This, however gives you similar credentials as the person who sits on the first row of the plane. Yes you are there, yes you made the journey, but you had nothing to do with actually flying the plane. If there is turbulence, you experience it. When the plane climbs out, your ears pop. However, at the end of the journey, you deplane and move on. You're a passenger, you aren't the pilot.

For minorities, it is a relentless, all encompassing experience that draws you of energy and strength. And tons of $ is not a real insulator. It only lessens the access of the most heinous perpetrators to you. That is all is does.

Before you respond I ask you to read this thoroughly and perhaps look at a few of my other posts in the this section, Politics/Religion and really consider what I a writing in this post.

Cheers-mk

Last edited by MKSixer; 04-02-2016 at 09:13 AM..
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      04-02-2016, 10:06 AM   #169
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I agree with you. Racism and discrimination do exist. But they have been reduced to a point in my view that they are at the lowest levels we can expect to achieve. Human nature kicks in after a while. People feel comfortable with people like themselves. In the work environment there is no institutionalized discrimination and hasn't been for some time. Same in the neighborhoodsame I've lived in for the past decade. No more worries about race with who moves into a neighborhood. Economic class still does play a role in this setting however and probably always will. But as things are now at this level, I see racism and discrimination as dead issues. However politically they are used to flog and scare the masses to drive votes. The arguments that blacks are passed over for promotion, denied housing or admission to schools, etc are all paper tigers. That racism effectively doesn't exist in the country anymore. This is why I am arguing about this so much. The left uses these arguments to garner votes, make excuses for their failed president, and at the same time is the group that has served that community the worst.
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      04-02-2016, 10:12 AM   #170
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...Racism has been dead white toward black for decades...

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I agree with you. Racism and discrimination do exist....
So which one do you believe? Is racism dead, or does it still exist.
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      04-02-2016, 10:20 AM   #171
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Institutionally dead. Individuals of any color, gender, etc will always harbor racism vs other groups. Do whites harbor racism toward other groups? Yes. But at this point it's probably the lowest level of any group toward other groups. Certainly blacks harbor far more racism vs whites and Asians. I can't tell you how many whites I know voted for Obama because he was black. Too many to count. And when you ask them why it was like they were trying to prove to the world they weren't racist. Most of the ones I talked to didn't even think his views politically were the right ones. It was a straight vote for black, not for the best person for the job.
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      04-02-2016, 10:31 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Institutionally dead. Individuals of any color, gender, etc will always harbor racism vs other groups. Do whites harbor racism toward other groups? Yes. But at this point it's probably the lowest level of any group toward other groups. Certainly blacks harbor far more racism vs whites and Asians. I can't tell you how many whites I know voted for Obama because he was black. Too many to count. And when you ask them why it was like they were trying to prove to the world they weren't racist. Most of the ones I talked to didn't even think his views politically were the right ones. It was a straight vote for black, not for the best person for the job.
This statement sums up your world view pretty well. To you, if another group gets help, your group is being knocked down. It's almost as if you think the way people get treated in this country is a zero-sum game.

Most of my friends are white, and a large percentage of them voted for Obama. But, it had nothing to do with the color of his skin, it was the substance of his campaign. To people who hold a world view that everything is racially charged, yes you probably see white people voting for a black guy, and that can only mean the white folks are voting for him due to the color of his skin. If the people you know think that by voting for a black dude, that makes them not a racist, well that's a very shallow view of what tolerance and inclusion is. It's like someone saying "Hey I have 1 black friend, I'm not racist".

edit: And please explain this:

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...Certainly blacks harbor far more racism vs whites and Asians...
Are you insinuating that black people are more racist against white people than white people are against black people?
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      04-02-2016, 10:49 AM   #173
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I agree with your assessment. It was very shallow for them to do it but for them it was like someone gay coming out of the closet. And no group should ever get help at this point over another group. That help is for economic advancement due to discrimination in the workplace ir for education, not to fight daily discrimination. Discrimination at work is illegal. The law provides the help. Additional help would be and is reverse discrimination. Same for school admissions or financial aid. Favoring one group over another is the definition of discrimination no matter how noble the idea is. I think we agree on this but from opposite sides of the fence. Just like making reparations for a blacks great great great granddaddy being a slave is crazy, as many democrats have argued we should do for votes, so is AA.
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