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      01-18-2019, 07:51 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Do you get the sense that they are frantic / really nervous about this CFO being questioned? Does she have some sort of secrets they are worried will be exposed?

It just seems to be blown out of proportion in relation to what happened.
I think for the Chinese govt, it's not about what she may or may not say, it is about national pride. They want to be seen as the good guys and the evidence that comes out of this may be bad for their image.

Also the whole "century of humiliation" thing where they feel like they've been bullied by other countries all the time and so they're standing up to what they perceive as the bully. China’s ambassador to Canada has said that “Western egotism and white supremacy” were behind calls for Beijing to release two detained Canadians.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/w...supremacy.html

The motivations behind some of the stuff China does is not very complex... they think they're being bullied and so they're standing up to the bullies.
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      01-18-2019, 08:07 PM   #244
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Huawei is continuing to be quite the controversy.
Germany announced it is now considering banning Huawei from its 5G network.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46914489

In retrospect, we have to admit that in many ways, Nixon's going to China and Carter's subsequent termination of diplomatic relations with Taipei and establishment of relations with the People's Republic of China was really the opening of Pandora's Box.

It took some 40 years to fully feel the real world consequences, but ultimately, the West and the free world really got fooled by "China's peaceful rise" rhetoric that was propagated by the Chinese Communist Party, and now the West is paying for the damage.

I get the economic and realpolitik realities at the time (potential large market for trade/goods, counter-balance to the USSR post Sino-Soviet Split), but the real mistake was opening up to them with open arms and letting their "rise" go unchecked while turning a blind eye to all their violations (i.e., trade, human rights, etc.) for fear of losing a slice of their market.
Tiananmen in '89 should've been a huge red flag...it sure shocked the [free] world, but not enough. And ultimately, Beijing learned more from Tiananmen than the West did. Beijing learned that political power henceforth would have to be channeled through hidden hands behind the scenes and through secrecy and 'soft' [yet direct] influence instead of brass knuckles.
The West cried about it for a few years, and then quickly forgot about it (except for the arms embargo, which is still in place), blinded by the economic and manufacturing boom.

Alas, it needs to be clear that this is still the same regime that was responsible for the murder of tens of millions of its own people, the regime that launched a surprise-attack to undermine UN operations to defend South Korea, the regime that manipulated the economic strings to favor their own rise, and the regime that continues to undermine international law and the leadership of the United States, through an array of methods (hacking, intellectual theft, spying, academic revisionism, sponsoring/trading with rogue states such as Iran and North Korea, etc.)

Has the West finally seen through to their antics? Maybe.
But the fact that we're talking about this issue seriously is a good step to 20/20 vision when it comes to dealing with Beijing.
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      01-18-2019, 08:17 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Do you get the sense that they are frantic / really nervous about this CFO being questioned? Does she have some sort of secrets they are worried will be exposed?

It just seems to be blown out of proportion in relation to what happened.
I think for the Chinese govt, it's not about what she may or may not say, it is about national pride. They want to be seen as the good guys and the evidence that comes out of this may be bad for their image.

Also the whole "century of humiliation" thing where they feel like they've been bullied by other countries all the time and so they're standing up to what they perceive as the bully. China's ambassador to Canada has said that "Western egotism and white supremacy" were behind calls for Beijing to release two detained Canadians.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/w...supremacy.html

The motivations behind some of the stuff China does is not very complex... they think they're being bullied and so they're standing up to the bullies.
As an avid enthusiast of Chinese history, I completely understand the "century of humiliation" and the deep-seated desire for the Chinese to secure what in their mind is their rightful place in the world.

That being said, I never felt like the Communist Party was genuine in that regard. They have consistently used nationalist rhetoric as a means of control, mobilization, as well as indoctrination.
The real end game for them is to challenge the status quo (rather than working with it), step-by-step and in their ideology, the Party comes first, even before China itself.

It's this disingenuous approach that has me worried, especially given their track record and their political development as of late (under Xi).
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      01-18-2019, 09:00 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usshelena725 View Post
And herein lies the rub. A quote from the linked article:

Security experts worry the Communist Party-led government would ask Huawei to incorporate back doors into its equipment for spying or sabotage. A Chinese law approved in 2017 requires companies to “support, co-operate with, and collaborate in national intelligence work.”

This law alone should draw substantial pause for dealing with any Chinese firm.

Huawei is not the risk. China is the risk. It’s not as if Huawei can do whatever it wants, that it can tell the Chinese government to take a running leap.

Well said in the last paragraph. China is the risk. Not the company.
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      01-18-2019, 09:33 PM   #247
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If China is the risk then where is the talk about HTC, haier, lenevo, etc...?

Even the security camera manufacturers like dahau, foscam and others which are known to have back doors are still allowed to sell in the U.S.

Huawei is huge competition to Apple, Google and Samsung and I am guessing their lobbyists are the ones behind most of this.
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      01-19-2019, 12:17 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
If China is the risk then where is the talk about HTC, haier, lenevo, etc...?

Even the security camera manufacturers like dahau, foscam and others which are known to have back doors are still allowed to sell in the U.S.

Huawei is huge competition to Apple, Google and Samsung and I am guessing their lobbyists are the ones behind most of this.
No
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      01-19-2019, 08:17 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
No
Why? Is it absurd to think that rival companies are trying to limit their market share? Huawei is ahead of the rest when it comes to 5g technology. I am sure Apple doesn't feel great that Huawei has killed their iPhone sales in China.
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      01-19-2019, 11:20 AM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
If China is the risk then where is the talk about HTC, haier, lenevo, etc...?

Even the security camera manufacturers like dahau, foscam and others which are known to have back doors are still allowed to sell in the U.S.

Huawei is huge competition to Apple, Google and Samsung and I am guessing their lobbyists are the ones behind most of this.
Because Huawei is a sudo arms length Chinese government company.
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      01-19-2019, 11:55 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Because Huawei is a sudo arms length Chinese government company.
And the rest are not? The same Chinese laws apply to them.
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      01-19-2019, 01:25 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Because Huawei is a sudo arms length Chinese government company.
And the rest are not? The same Chinese laws apply to them.
Chinese. Law.
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      01-19-2019, 01:32 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Chinese. Law.
Exactly? I am confused
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      01-19-2019, 01:36 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
If China is the risk then where is the talk about HTC, haier, lenevo, etc...?

Even the security camera manufacturers like dahau, foscam and others which are known to have back doors are still allowed to sell in the U.S.

Huawei is huge competition to Apple, Google and Samsung and I am guessing their lobbyists are the ones behind most of this.
For the record, HTC is from Taiwan
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      01-19-2019, 01:48 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
For the record, HTC is from Taiwan
Sorry about that, thought they were mainland China.
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      01-21-2019, 12:52 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsaad1 View Post
And the rest are not? The same Chinese laws apply to them.
Apple, Google and Samsung are not Chinese companies.
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      01-22-2019, 09:11 PM   #257
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Every comment made by the Chinese government has been ridiculous so far.

https://apnews.com/c772580f689346cf95d388d255933159
China demands US drop Huawei extradition request with Canada
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      01-22-2019, 10:40 PM   #258
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Huawei’s Meng Wanzhou has an extra passport that wasn’t listed in court records

Two stories out today, one that the US will file extradition documents before the deadline and it also seems that Wang has an 8th Passport that wasn't listed in court documents.

From the Toronto Star:

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/20...-passport.html


VANCOUVER—The U.S. government’s hunch that Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou had passports beyond the seven it listed to oppose her release on bail appears to be true.

What it actually means is unclear, as no one would say whether she handed over the special Chinese passport over, let alone whether it could be used to leave the country.


The Hong Kong Companies Registry has confirmed to StarMetro that Meng has a special public affairs passport issued by the Chinese government. It was not included in a December court submission by U.S. federal attorney Richard Donoghue, who warned that it was “entirely possible” she had more than the seven passports she had previously used to travel to the U.S.

When asked if the passport was still valid, Hong Kong’s Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau said companies are required by law to keep an index with identity information of its directors and that the information must be up to date.

“There are statutory requirements that if there is any change in the particulars mentioned, the company must, within 15 days of the change, deliver to the Registrar for registration a notice in the specified form to report such change,” the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau said in an email.

It’s unclear if Meng surrendered the public affairs passport — issued only to China’s elite business and government officials — as part of her bail conditions, because documents released to StarMetro have been heavily redacted. Government and court officials on both sides of the border have either not responded to or declined multiple requests for interviews related to Meng’s travel documents.

The Canadian Department of Justice said any passports held by Meng must be handed over to the RCMP, but declined to comment on whether this particular passport was among those surrendered. The RCMP also declined to comment, citing the case as an ongoing investigation.

“The bail order issued by the BC Supreme Court specifies that Ms. Meng must surrender any and all passports and travel documents to the RCMP. For privacy reasons, we cannot specify the numbers of the passports that were surrendered,” said Ian McLeod, a spokesman with the Canadian Department of Justice.

The public affairs passport has the letter P before its numbers — setting it apart from all passport numbers that have been linked to Meng and made public.

As part of her bail conditions, Meng Wanzhou is living in this Vancouver house and must be monitred 24/7 by an ankle bracelet and a private security detail.
As part of her bail conditions, Meng Wanzhou is living in this Vancouver house and must be monitred 24/7 by an ankle bracelet and a private security detail.

Former Canadian ambassador to China Guy Saint-Jacques said holding one of these passports is a sign of prestige in the country.

Among other things, “it means you can use special lanes at the airport,” Saint-Jacques said.

“When we received requests of Chinese delegations coming to Canada, I would ask how come they have such a passport and not a regular passport? I think it’s part of these shenanigans and the way the China government works and the connections one has,” he added.

Meng’s numerous passports played a key role in the lengthy bail hearing that followed her Dec. 1 arrest at the Vancouver airport.

Both the Attorney General of Canada and the U.S. government, in opposing her release while awaiting extradition, cited the risk she could use her wealth, resources and multiple passports to flee the country. Crown prosecutor John Gibb-Carsley had described her flight risk as “unmanageable.”

Judge William Ehrcke granted Meng’s bail release with multiple conditions, including that she surrender all of her passports.

He concluded, after verbal arguments in the courtroom, that only two of Meng’s passports were valid for travel at that time.
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      01-22-2019, 10:55 PM   #259
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Quote:
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Apple, Google and Samsung are not Chinese companies.
I never stated they were.
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      01-23-2019, 12:39 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
As an avid enthusiast of Chinese history, I completely understand the "century of humiliation" and the deep-seated desire for the Chinese to secure what in their mind is their rightful place in the world.

That being said, I never felt like the Communist Party was genuine in that regard. They have consistently used nationalist rhetoric as a means of control, mobilization, as well as indoctrination.
The real end game for them is to challenge the status quo (rather than working with it), step-by-step and in their ideology, the Party comes first, even before China itself.

It's this disingenuous approach that has me worried, especially given their track record and their political development as of late (under Xi).
Of course that's what it's used for. But the motivation is real, West = bad guys, and the Chinese are defending themselves against the aggressors.

I particularly hate how they use things like the Japanese war as some kind of rallying cry. It was the KMT that fought and defeated the Japanese, not the Communists. Instead they weave it into this story of oppression of the Chinese people by outsiders and the victorious Red Army.

Xi has driven the nationalism to new heights. Things were easing and most younger Chinese people wanted nothing to do with the Communist party rhetoric... but Xi is shoving it down people's throats and they have no choice.
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      01-23-2019, 02:03 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
Of course that's what it's used for. But the motivation is real, West = bad guys, and the Chinese are defending themselves against the aggressors.

I particularly hate how they use things like the Japanese war as some kind of rallying cry. It was the KMT that fought and defeated the Japanese, not the Communists. Instead they weave it into this story of oppression of the Chinese people by outsiders and the victorious Red Army.

Xi has driven the nationalism to new heights. Things were easing and most younger Chinese people wanted nothing to do with the Communist party rhetoric... but Xi is shoving it down people's throats and they have no choice.
This. 100%
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      01-23-2019, 04:24 PM   #262
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Ambassador John McCallum details how Meng Wanzhou might avoid extradition

So a former Liberal MP is now sticking his nose into a Judicial proceeding, it looks like the Canadian government is now interfering in this extradition. This doesn't surprise me given our PM's admiration of the Chinese and his desire to expand trade with China and his open dislike of Trump. This is a stupid game in the long run, does he really want to side with China over the USA?

From the National Post

https://nationalpost.com/news/huawei...o-u-s-mccallum

Speaking to Chinese reporters near Toronto, Canada's ambassador to China listed several arguments the Huawei executive's lawyers can make in her defence

OTTAWA — John McCallum, Canada’s ambassador to China, says there are strong legal arguments Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou can make to help her avoid extradition to the United States.

Meng was arrested Dec. 1 in Vancouver at the behest of U.S. authorities, who have alleged she used a Huawei subsidiary to evade sanctions against Iran.

Her arrest has put Canada in a deeply uncomfortable position between two sparring superpowers, which are also its two largest trading partners. As a result, the Canada-China relationship has deteriorated in recent weeks and Beijing has warned Ottawa of serious consequences unless she is released.

Speaking to Chinese reporters Tuesday in the Toronto area, McCallum listed several arguments Meng’s legal team can make in her defence.

He said her lawyer could argue that there has been possible political involvement following recent comments by U.S. President Donald Trump. Last month, Trump raised questions about the basis of the extradition request by musing in an interview with Reuters about intervening in Meng’s case if it would help him strike a trade deal with China.

McCallum also said she can argue against the extra-territorial aspect to her case and the fact the fraud allegations against Meng are related to Iran sanctions, which Canada did not sign onto.

“I think she has some strong arguments that she can make before a judge,” McCallum said during his opening remarks to reporters.

In the days that followed Meng’s arrest, China detained two Canadians. Michael Kovrig, a Canadian diplomat on leave, and Michael Spavor, an entrepreneur, were taken in on allegations of engaging in activities that have endangered China’s national security.

China also sentenced another Canadian, Robert Lloyd Schellenberg, to death in a sudden retrial of his drug-smuggling case. He was originally sentenced in 2016 to a 15-year term, but the court delivered the new sentence after reconsidering his case.

Western analysts believe the arrests and the death sentence are part of an attempt by Beijing to pressure Canada into releasing Meng.

Americans face deadline to file paperwork for Huawei executive’s extradition
Under house arrest in Vancouver, Huawei CFO lives in luxury and spends her days out shopping Canada’s arrest of Huawei exec was the ‘backstabbing’ of a friend: Chinese ambassador
The Chinese government has insisted Meng has done nothing wrong — and has pointed out that she hasn’t broken any Canadian laws.

McCallum, who used the opportunity to speak with Chinese journalists to explain how Canada’s extradition law works, also said he was aware the Meng case had personally upset Chinese President Xi Jinping.

“I do know that President Xi Jinping was very angry about this and so others in the Chinese government have taken the lead from him, and I don’t know exactly why,” McCallum said.

“Maybe it’s because Huawei is a national flagship company of China. It’s not just any company, it’s a special Chinese company. So, maybe that is why he is so angry.”
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      01-23-2019, 04:32 PM   #263
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Whats the over/under on her being extradited to the US? Asking for a friend.
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      01-23-2019, 04:40 PM   #264
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Quote:
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Whats the over/under on her being extradited to the US? Asking for a friend.
I don't think I'd want to bet on it now that the elfin' Canadian ambassador to China has shit the bed all over the place.
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