[-c-]

http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-exten...-selling-days/

[JasH]

*Opel has a many thousand vehicle backlog of Europeans who have ordered the Ampera-E, however GM has reportedly*decided to*artificially limit the number of EVs heading outside the US.


Is GM also run by the same management as Nintendo? They love leaving money on the table too

(Not that I want this car anyway though.)

[Efthreeoh]

Bolt sales Dec. 2016 - June 2017 = 8,171

i3 Sales Dec. 2016 - June 2017 = 3,783

115% better than the i3.

Dismal...

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Bolt sales Dec. 2016 - June 2017 = 8,171

i3 Sales Dec. 2016 - June 2017 = 3,783

115% better than the i3.

Dismal...

This isn't a comparison of i3 vs bolt, everybody also knows i3 sales where dismal so nothing new their, Also i3 has been out for 3 years already, bolt just came out so yea their sales are pretty dismal for being a new car! Just saying. Just shows you that range doesn't sell a car! Maybe it would have done better if it didn't look so bad. I mean why they make them look like a sport hatch that should cost half of the asking price is silly. If they created a sexy looking car I'd bet you it do way better. But who knows this goes for both i3 and bolt.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by -c-

This isn't a comparison of i3 vs bolt, everybody also knows i3 sales where dismal! Also i3 has been out for 3 years already, bolt just came out so yea their sales are pretty dismal for being a new car! Just saying. Just shows you that range doesn't sell a car!

If it's not a comparison, then why is the production status of the Bolt brought up on a BMW i3 Forum? Why mention it? As you imply, Bolt sales are an indicator that EV range doesn't sell cars, then why does every manufacturer try to achieve more range in their EV? Your comment doesn't make any sense. I think you said it as an attempt to justify the even more dismal sales of the i3. Since the Bolt has double the sales of the i3 (both cars are a few thousand dollars within MSRP of each other) and it's range is 2.5 to 3 times the range, I'd say EV range actually does matter.

What does make sense is that gasoline prices are the real indicator of EV sales. With regular gas priced at just north of $2 a gallon, EVs just don't offer an viable economical alternative to gasoline powered vehicles. Second, EVs are primarily supposed to be economy cars because they achieve far better MPGe than gasoline cars, so in general the buying public who purchase economy cars are people in a socio-economic class where they can only afford a single car household and can't take full advantage of the full $7,500 tax credit. So range and MSRP actually do matter. Third, add in the need for a $1,000 Level 2 home charger, makes the EV purchase even more difficult for such people since most probably don't even spend $1,000 a year for gasoline. Forth, EVs are really impractical for a single car household since long-distance travel (i.e. a road trip) is very inconvenient due to the lengthy recharge time and expense for access to DC Fast charge stations (needed for economy cars such as the Leaf, Bolt, and i3).

So I think the news story is not really about the Bolt (or i3) but rather the EV market in general. It takes a certain (large) minimal amount of cost to bring a EV to market, so there needs to be a minimum level of market share to justify the investment. The U.S. EV market just doesn't support the investment.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If it's not a comparison, then why is the production status of the Bolt brought up on a BMW i3 Forum? Why mention it? As you imply, Bolt sales are an indicator that EV range doesn't sell cars, then why does every manufacturer try to achieve more range in their EV? Your comment doesn't make any sense. I think you said it as an attempt to justify the even more dismal sales of the i3. Since the Bolt has double the sales of the i3 (both cars are a few thousand dollars within MSRP of each other) and it's range is 2.5 to 3 times the range, I'd say EV range actually does matter.

What does make sense is that gasoline prices are the real indicator of EV sales. With regular gas priced at just north of $2 a gallon, EVs just don't offer an viable economical alternative to gasoline powered vehicles. Second, EVs are primarily supposed to be economy cars because they achieve far better MPGe than gasoline cars, so in general the buying public who purchase economy cars are people in a socio-economic class where they can only afford a single car household and can't take full advantage of the full $7,500 tax credit. So range and MSRP actually do matter. Third, add in the need for a $1,000 Level 2 home charger, makes the EV purchase even more difficult for such people since most probably don't even spend $1,000 a year for gasoline. Forth, EVs are really impractical for a single car household since long-distance travel (i.e. a road trip) is very inconvenient due to the lengthy recharge time and expense for access to DC Fast charge stations (needed for economy cars such as the Leaf, Bolt, and i3).

So I think the news story is not really about the Bolt (or i3) but rather the EV market in general. It takes a certain (large) minimal amount of cost to bring a EV to market, so there needs to be a minimum level of market share to justify the investment. The U.S. EV market just doesn't support the investment.

Dude get over yourself this is a friking forum over EV's to talk all things EV, it's people like you that make this shit intolerable I read like 5 sentences of your post, and already sick of it. I'm done with the i3 in December and thank god, replacing it with a gas burning A7, I'm so done with The Who's better than who, both the GM and BMW's car SUCK for gods sake in sales and people for the most part don't like them GET OVER IT!!!!!! You've been touting the bolt since you've been here and it's a fucking failure !!!! Get over it !!! Even it's 200+ milage couldn't move cars.

"Double sale over the i3" ! It's 8k in sales that's a fucking joke especially for a new car even an ev! If the bolt sales are this low now what will
It be in three years? Who knows....

Plus it looks like a freaking econobox! As I've said before the bolt sucks and sticking to my Original post and the sales prove it. Tesla model 3 with its crazy pre order proves otherwise but don't like it either so whatever keep blowing air.

[EINSER M]

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by -c-

Dude get over yourself this is a friking forum over EV's to talk all things EV, it's people like you that make this shit intolerable I read like 5 sentences of your post, and already sick of it. I'm done with the i3 in December and thank god, replacing it with a gas burning A7, I'm so done with The Who's better than who, both the GM and BMW's car SUCK for gods sake in sales and people for the most part don't like them GET OVER IT!!!!!! You've been touting the bolt since you've been here and it's a fucking failure !!!! Get over it !!! Even it's 200+ milage couldn't move cars.

"Double sale over the i3" ! It's 8k in sales that's a fucking joke especially for a new car even an ev! If the bolt sales are this low now what will
It be in three years? Who knows....

Plus it looks like a freaking econobox! As I've said before the bolt sucks and sticking to my Original post and the sales prove it. Tesla model 3 with its crazy pre order proves otherwise but don't like it either so whatever keep blowing air.

Okay, so I talked about EVs, not sure what your issue is. Nissan Leaf is just 1,000 more sales than the Bolt, so what does that tell you? The Leaf has been in production since 2010 and is from a Japanese manufacturer with better perceived build quality than GM and the Bolt is only back in sales by 1,000 units being a brand new car with no reliability history from a perceived manufacturer of low-quality cars. So compared to the Leaf I'd say the Bolt is holding it's own.

I've been touting the Bolt because it's a better engineered EV in my opinion. It does better what EVs are supposed to do than the i3. You say it is a failure, but what is the basis for your assertion? GM didn't publish expected sales figures, so the sales comparison is a comparison to air. If you don't want to discuss EVs then don't. Go over to a Bolt Forum and there's nary a thread about how the i3 sucks, or it's sales figures, or production status. The OP posted a story about the Bolt and the perception that it sucks because GM is suspending production for "dismal sales". I merely pointed out the i3 has worse sales. Over all auto sales are down about 3%, so cars that are on the fringe of sales volume such as EVs get affected by a drop in overall market sales. When a manufacturing facility produces a low sales volume cars such as the Bolt (EVs in the US are barely over 1% of the market) the prudent financial practice is to suspend production, which for a union-labored mass production factory is complicated.

Enjoy your Audi A7. A close friend of mine just got a 2018 S5, traded in her 2014 A5 (not sure I would have given up the supercharged V6). I've been in it. It's a nice car.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Okay, so I talked about EVs, not sure what your issue is. Nissan Leaf is just 1,000 more sales than the Bolt, so what does that tell you? The Leaf has been in production since 2010 and is from a Japanese manufacturer with better perceived build quality than GM and the Bolt is only back in sales by 1,000 units being a brand new car with no reliability history from a perceived manufacturer of low-quality cars. So compared to the Leaf I'd say the Bolt is holding it's own.

I've been touting the Bolt because it's a better engineered EV in my opinion. It does better what EVs are supposed to do than the i3. You say it is a failure, but what is the basis for your assertion? GM didn't publish expected sales figures, so the sales comparison is a comparison to air. If you don't want to discuss EVs then don't. Go over to a Bolt Forum and there's nary a thread about how the i3 sucks, or it's sales figures, or production status. The OP posted a story about the Bolt and the perception that it sucks because GM is suspending production for "dismal sales". I merely pointed out the i3 has worse sales. Over all auto sales are down about 3%, so cars that are on the fringe of sales volume such as EVs get affected by a drop in overall market sales. When a manufacturing facility produces a low sales volume cars such as the Bolt (EVs in the US are barely over 1% of the market) the prudent financial practice is to suspend production, which for a union-labored mass production factory is complicated.

Enjoy your Audi A7. A close friend of mine just got a 2018 S5, traded in her 2014 A5 (not sure I would have given up the supercharged V6). I've been in it. It's a nice car.

.

[JasH]

Efthreeoh, do you have shares in GM?

[VacMan1]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Okay, so I talked about EVs, not sure what your issue is. Nissan Leaf is just 1,000 more sales than the Bolt, so what does that tell you? The Leaf has been in production since 2010 and is from a Japanese manufacturer with better perceived build quality than GM and the Bolt is only back in sales by 1,000 units being a brand new car with no reliability history from a perceived manufacturer of low-quality cars. So compared to the Leaf I'd say the Bolt is holding it's own.

The "Car of the Year" Bolt is barely holding it's own against a design from 7 years ago that is being blown out at the end of it's life cycle. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement. I do recognize the Bolt is still not widely available in all 50 states, but when dealers are sitting on 90 day old inventory and already discounting them by $4-5k just to get them to move, I think you can agree that's an issue.

I had one of the first reservations in SD county on a Bolt, but once I actually drove one I was completely underwhelmed. They definitely built it to a price point. The seats are a HUGE issue, despite what the Bolt fanboys on their forums want you to believe. There are guys driving their brand new cars around sitting on rubber pads just to tolerate it, getting seats rebuilt, and even a guy swapping in VW seats. In a brand new car? Unheard of.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by VacMan1

The "Car of the Year" Bolt is barely holding it's own against a design from 7 years ago that is being blown out at the end of it's life cycle. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement. I do recognize the Bolt is still not widely available in all 50 states, but when dealers are sitting on 90 day old inventory and already discounting them by $4-5k just to get them to move, I think you can agree that's an issue.

I had one of the first reservations in SD county on a Bolt, but once I actually drove one I was completely underwhelmed. They definitely built it to a price point. The seats are a HUGE issue, despite what the Bolt fanboys on their forums want you to believe. There are guys driving their brand new cars around sitting on rubber pads just to tolerate it, getting seats rebuilt, and even a guy swapping in VW seats. In a brand new car? Unheard of.

I found issue with the seats on both of my test drives, but I have issues with my BMW E90 and Z4 seats too. I was hoping for better seats, but there are plenty of people that don't have issues with the seats. The Bolt in my opinion has the right packaging for 80% of market. It's just EVs are a hard sell to the general public. Tesla Model 3 manufacturing slot "pre-sales" has more to do with status symbolism (people thinking they are getting a $100,000 Model S for a $42,000 price). We'll see how sales actually go when the Model 3 finally reaches full-rate production and can be purchased at the prospective discussed $35,500 price. I was hoping the Bolt would give me 180 miles of winter range, but I'm not sure it can.

I don't think the Bolt sales or any EV sales has to do with comfort of the seats, but rather the low price of gasoline and the real inconvenience of overnight charging and long-distance drives of +400 miles. I think the EV market in the US is small and limited, and will remain so.