10-18-2021, 12:27 AM | #111 |
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OK BMW says this about its ACC:
"The ACC sensor is integrated in the ACC control unit. The ACC sensor is a radar sensor, which is capable of both long-range detection (up to 200 metres) and short-range detection (up to 60 metres) in front of the vehicle. The ACC sensor detects the distance, angle and speed of moving objects in front of the vehicle." I can't find documentation that the sensor is triple redundant. @130mph, the car clears 191 feet/second, so 650 feet gives the system 3.4 seconds to react. BMW also has KAFAS camera(left and right lens) for lane change warning, front collision warning and city stop, etc, etc. Tesla says its narrow forward camera can see 250m, while claiming radar can only go 160m. Tesla has 3 forward cameras of narrow(250m), main(150m), wide(60m), but they appear not be triple redundant(each should have 3 units, or 9 total cameras). (a consultant's analysis of Tesla's 3 cameras) https://www.systemplus.fr/wp-content...-3-Flyer-1.pdf Last edited by bavarianride; 10-18-2021 at 12:45 AM.. |
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10-18-2021, 01:51 AM | #112 |
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10-18-2021, 06:59 AM | #113 | |
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Most articles mention the vehicle only being sold in China, with the i4 being BMW's main EV for the U.S. https://www.electrive.com/2020/11/23...unch-in-china/
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10-18-2021, 10:14 AM | #114 | ||
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10-18-2021, 10:17 AM | #115 | ||||
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Redundancy would require no gaps in the data captured. Depending on what you are doing a camera could be backed up by Lidar, etc. TM3 does not have enough camera positions for them to claim redundancy in image information. They do claim redundancy in processing. Vision only makes speed and distance calculation challenging at best. You can use multiple front facing cameras and use parallax for some calculation, but if you are doing that you might as well use radar/Lidar for absolute speed/distance capture. GM Super Cruise is hands free on the highway. Tesla is not. That makes it simple. Cruise is ahead. Cruise and Waymo have fully autonomous driving and permits to operate a commercial taxi service in California.
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bavarianride1506.50 |
10-18-2021, 10:36 AM | #116 | |
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10-18-2021, 10:43 AM | #117 | ||
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Repair becomes difficult. But Tesla has their own insurance where rates are only based on your "driving" score.
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10-18-2021, 11:46 AM | #118 | |
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And on big hits, the more exposed battery also has higher probability of thermal runaway. |
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10-18-2021, 11:48 AM | #119 | |
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Do u know if BMW's radar(e.g. ACC) is already triple redundant or not? Do u know of any link? |
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10-18-2021, 11:53 AM | #120 | |
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It is true the system can disengage due to camera malfunction, but just imagine the system disengage at 100+mph when someone pulls in front of you 200m ahead due to non-redundant system .... From the previously attached article, Tesla has 3 forward cameras to cover different distances, but do note that they also cover different fields/angles of vision, so something will be missed if any of them malfunctions. |
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10-18-2021, 11:56 AM | #121 |
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Yes, "total" is sometimes interpreted to mean a large amount of injury-causing crush. It's just the cost of the repair as a percentage of the car's value. We know this personally from when my wife's beloved MB E350 had the full-width front fascia/lighting/grille, etc. sliced off in a 90 impact, leaving a perfectly intact car behind that, but being 8 years old, the math worked against us given the cost of repairing a Mercedes. That was when the dreaded A6 appeared (briefly) until we dumped that sorry mess at a loss. That "totalled" our wallets!
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bavarianride1506.50 clee1982797.50 |
10-18-2021, 12:03 PM | #122 | |
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How was your A6 experience? What issue(s) made you dump the car early? |
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10-18-2021, 12:20 PM | #123 | |
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- poor, clunky, and unfixable trans shifting ("they all do that") - variety of electronic features that worked/did not work randomly - warped rotors on a new car in first 15k they refused to cover - the tipping point was when the tech told us he was told to change the RO to help support denying warranty because of a supposed, but actually non-existent - from his own observation - "pad material transfer" to the rotor. This went up to corporate staff. Zero trust in the company, the first OEM to ever have their CEO in jail. VAG anything? NEVER AGAIN!
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10-18-2021, 12:45 PM | #124 | ||
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NHTSA opened an investigation into Tesla providing software OTA without notifying them. They said Tesla. has been doing things that affect safety and actually would constitute a recall. They are angry that Tesla didn't notify them of software changes that affect safety. There is no need for triple redundancy. You only need to be able to fall over automatically and gracefully degrade the system. Processors are typically run in lockstep when you just have a checker. No need for a voting system (TMR - triple modular redundancy). There is typically a service.processor that monitors all the other processors and will take over when checking fails. I'm not sure what BMW is doing for sensors.
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10-18-2021, 01:07 PM | #125 | |
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My F30 was also 7-8 months into F30 shipping to US, so I visited service 20+ times within new car warranty for various recalls/debug/rattles/staggered maintenance. One nagging issue was false alarm triggers, they used my car as testbed for various HW/SW integrations. It collected 50+ DAVID days but not on same issues so no lemon. I did put tons of miles on various loaners. |
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10-18-2021, 01:13 PM | #126 |
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It was just a mild freshening. A friend with a 2015 could hardly see the difference. But, I think they did royally screw up the transmission adaptation to the engine that did not show itself on the test drive before ordering.
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10-18-2021, 01:19 PM | #127 | |
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Yeah non mission critical systems should be ok with active and standby supervisor engines/links for graceful switchover. I would think real-time automobile safety systems like L2/L2+ and beyond do require TMR voting just like auto-pilot/flight control on airplanes, correct? |
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10-18-2021, 02:49 PM | #128 |
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Ok a colleague said at lunch that L2/L2+ is still driver assist, so no redundancy is really needed yet.
In other words, L2/L2+(as driver assist) is redundant w.r.t. the driver. |
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10-18-2021, 03:06 PM | #129 | ||
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L2/L2+ are supervised because they still require a driver sitting in the seat. Even L5 does not require TMR. Two processors executing in lockstep with checking is enough. When they fall out of lockstep another service processor can take over and either come to a graceful stop or notify the driver to take over. I worked as a.consultant adding processor extensions for lockstep execution and added ECC (error checking and correcting) hardware for a processor cluster. Two execution processors in lockstep with service processors also running on lockstep monitoring everything. The service processors cluster could take over and guide a car to safety. The service processor could also run diagnostics if there was a.fault to determine if it was transient and put the car back on the road. The faults would be collected and in the case of a persistent fault ldisable autonomous functionality but keep the car manually drivable. Fun stuff.
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10-18-2021, 03:16 PM | #130 | |
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My friends in the industry advice me to wait 10 years before subscribing to FSD and the likes, and I believe them. |
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10-18-2021, 03:26 PM | #131 | ||
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The reason I say 5 is because we should be at a point where the compute power required doesn't consume so much power and the current integrated Lidar and digital Radar will be much better. Consulting was fine, but I like a regular paycheck better.
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10-18-2021, 11:37 PM | #132 | |
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