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      10-19-2021, 10:44 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
If the i4 is anything to go by, I am very excited to see what a fully electric 3 Series is going to bring on a dedicated platform. If BMW improves the range another 15-20% from the i4, it's going to be a complete EV as far as what you would expect a BMW to be (see: i4).
I agree. I am a sedan guy, so I am all in on a 3 series bev M50 with 20% more efficiency than the i4. Only hesitation I have with putting a deposit on the i4 m50 is the front end. But, as mentioned above, BMW will make it grow on me. Hahaha. In all honesty, if they took the soon to be released i4 m50 drive train and bolted it up to the g20 m340 body, I'd buy one for sure.
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      10-19-2021, 11:16 AM   #24
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As someone that is a "car guy", worked at GM in the 80's and recently worked on chips in ADAS and ASIL-C/D systems how do people keep claiming that Tesla is ahead?

They are ahead in infrastructure, that's true.
They have good battery technology, but BMW, Ford and others are heavily invested in next-gen solid state battery technology. But even now, the technology used in batteries across the board is roughly equivalent.

Tesla is not "the leader" in autonomous technology; they just market their technology using names that imply something they don't have. GM/Cruise is ahead of Tesla in highway autonomous driving and is truly hands free. Not like Tesla, which requires your hands remain on the wheel. Tesla is L2, but so is BMW, Audi, and others.

Tesla is not and never will be FSD. The lack of redundancy in it's camera system is the first issue.

Tesla is the leader in selling EV, but that does not make them the leader in the tech, etc. Tesla had a clean slate. Other companies need to stay in business to transition to EV or fuel cell.
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      10-19-2021, 11:27 AM   #25
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      10-19-2021, 01:04 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ManGGouste View Post
Revolutionnary ... 2025... that's indeed "revolutionary" to arrive so late in the BEV game. So making the real "i4" 13 years after the i3 or 7 years after the model 3.
People weren't ready for the i3. Buyers at the time weren't "woke" and there were no govt mandates breathing down buyers necks.
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      10-19-2021, 01:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by techwhiz1 View Post
As someone that is a "car guy", worked at GM in the 80's and recently worked on chips in ADAS and ASIL-C/D systems how do people keep claiming that Tesla is ahead?

They are ahead in infrastructure, that's true.
They have good battery technology, but BMW, Ford and others are heavily invested in next-gen solid state battery technology. But even now, the technology used in batteries across the board is roughly equivalent.

Tesla is not "the leader" in autonomous technology; they just market their technology using names that imply something they don't have. GM/Cruise is ahead of Tesla in highway autonomous driving and is truly hands free. Not like Tesla, which requires your hands remain on the wheel. Tesla is L2, but so is BMW, Audi, and others.

Tesla is not and never will be FSD. The lack of redundancy in it's camera system is the first issue.

Tesla is the leader in selling EV, but that does not make them the leader in the tech, etc. Tesla had a clean slate. Other companies need to stay in business to transition to EV or fuel cell.
ESG investors and customers view Tesla as a tech company rather than a car company. Consequently any screw up on Tesla's part is overlooked. They do solar, space, and automobiles. Perhaps a modem day version of GE.

Personally I'm worried about my next vehicle. I want to continue to drive ICE but I worry about fuel prices going through the roof once EV's have begun to reduce consumption of gasoline. It's why I'm holding on to my paid off 4-series.
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      10-19-2021, 02:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz1 View Post
As someone that is a "car guy", worked at GM in the 80's and recently worked on chips in ADAS and ASIL-C/D systems how do people keep claiming that Tesla is ahead?

They are ahead in infrastructure, that's true.
They have good battery technology, but BMW, Ford and others are heavily invested in next-gen solid state battery technology. But even now, the technology used in batteries across the board is roughly equivalent.

Tesla is not "the leader" in autonomous technology; they just market their technology using names that imply something they don't have. GM/Cruise is ahead of Tesla in highway autonomous driving and is truly hands free. Not like Tesla, which requires your hands remain on the wheel. Tesla is L2, but so is BMW, Audi, and others.

Tesla is not and never will be FSD. The lack of redundancy in it's camera system is the first issue.

Tesla is the leader in selling EV, but that does not make them the leader in the tech, etc. Tesla had a clean slate. Other companies need to stay in business to transition to EV or fuel cell.
ESG investors and customers view Tesla as a tech company rather than a car company. Consequently any screw up on Tesla's part is overlooked. They do solar, space, and automobiles. Perhaps a modem day version of GE.

Personally I'm worried about my next vehicle. I want to continue to drive ICE but I worry about fuel prices going through the roof once EV's have begun to reduce consumption of gasoline. It's why I'm holding on to my paid off 4-series.
Traditional auto companies get hammered for the quality, etc. that Tesla owners and others accept.

I hold them to the same standard as my Chevy, Dodge and BMW cars. That being said, I won't buy a Tesla. it's not because I love any of the other brands and I'm biased; it is because I don't like Tesla cars.and that is unrelated to what I do like.

Yeah, if you have a paid for 4 series I'd wait. I was in the position of having a 2008 335i that I was going to replace next year just because it was starting to show it's age in mechanical reliability. Unfortunately, the car was totaled and I find myself needing to buy a car. I can wait until the i4 is delivered but not much beyond that.

For me it's a new BMW ICE or BMW electric?
Even though the electric is new and a "bridge" model I am going for it. I'll buy it because I really don't care that there will be a new platform in 2025. While the drivetrain of the i4 is new, most of the remainder of the car is not. So it's not 100% new. A new platform in 2025, means I don't buy it until 2026/2027.

I need a car now.
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      10-19-2021, 03:09 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
ESG investors and customers view Tesla as a tech company rather than a car company. Consequently any screw up on Tesla's part is overlooked. They do solar, space, and automobiles. Perhaps a modem day version of GE.

Personally I'm worried about my next vehicle. I want to continue to drive ICE but I worry about fuel prices going through the roof once EV's have begun to reduce consumption of gasoline. It's why I'm holding on to my paid off 4-series.
By the same token, I would rather lease my first electric car. Range/Charging is evolving so fast that a 5 year old electric car feels ancient.
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      10-19-2021, 09:58 PM   #30
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50 percent of sales by 2030? So like the same 2030 that is only 9 years away? Pretty sure no
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      10-19-2021, 10:06 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
50 percent of sales by 2030? So like the same 2030 that is only 9 years away? Pretty sure no
IMO it depends on whether governments follow through with their banning if ICE.
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      10-19-2021, 11:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
50 percent of sales by 2030? So like the same 2030 that is only 9 years away? Pretty sure no
IMO it depends on whether governments follow through with their banning if ICE.
Oh you mean like they banned it in 2015 and then again in 2020? Cool

I like EVs and will probably own one someday soon, but these projections are laughable. BMW has contingency plans for adoption in the ranges of probably 7-50 percent. They can flip a switch and scale up or down EVs. They just boast these estimates to please the green overlords. But @me in 2030, willing to be wrong
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      10-20-2021, 12:29 AM   #33
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Governments also have to follow through on providing the grid to power all these EV's and charging stations to make EV's viable replacements.
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      10-20-2021, 01:08 AM   #34
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50 percent of sales by 2030? So like the same 2030 that is only 9 years away? Pretty sure no
Funny thing is that legitimate infrastructure for EVs is woefully bad. I live in the Los Angeles/Orange County area and save for a handful of Tesla superchargers at some stores, I do not see very visible EV charging infrastructure. This is California, the most virtue-signaling state of them all. And how do they plan on retrofitting chargers into existing housing complexes? What about people in LA dependent on street parking?

Everybody I know with an EV, including Teslas, despises making the drive to and from the Bay Area because it is a pain to charge along the way.
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      10-20-2021, 08:55 PM   #35
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Good article, makes sense that BMW would use the 3er as its first "revolutionary" EV as the 3er is the brand's bread and butter and has always emphasized what the brand stands for, similar to MB and their S-Class. What will be very interesting is to see how this Neu Klasse Platform turns out like. From previous articles they mentioned that the platform would still be underpinning ICE vehicles to allow it to share production lines and I am curious to see if this will affect the ICE cars in a negative way as the platform may require certain design requirements and restraints to be made, as all RWD based BMW's require a long dash-to-axle ration in order to shoehorn the I6 under the hood, and it seems a focus of the Neu Klasse platform is to increase passenger space and wheelbase while shortening overhangs.

It was also mentioned previously that the platform would also replace cars on the UKL (FWD) platform, such as the X1 and 2GC, which could make for some interesting changes to BMW's lower-tier vehicles. Will this mean those cars will be made RWD-based again?
I think the long dash to axle ratio is also implemented because it presents as premium. Not like the i6 is behind the front axle line anyways (which irks the hell outta me). Seems like it scoots up with each gen.

But I like your thoughts on the smaller tier cars returning to RWD and hope that comes true! 🤗
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      10-20-2021, 09:26 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by SFBavarianArea View Post
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Good article, makes sense that BMW would use the 3er as its first "revolutionary" EV as the 3er is the brand's bread and butter and has always emphasized what the brand stands for, similar to MB and their S-Class. What will be very interesting is to see how this Neu Klasse Platform turns out like. From previous articles they mentioned that the platform would still be underpinning ICE vehicles to allow it to share production lines and I am curious to see if this will affect the ICE cars in a negative way as the platform may require certain design requirements and restraints to be made, as all RWD based BMW's require a long dash-to-axle ration in order to shoehorn the I6 under the hood, and it seems a focus of the Neu Klasse platform is to increase passenger space and wheelbase while shortening overhangs.

It was also mentioned previously that the platform would also replace cars on the UKL (FWD) platform, such as the X1 and 2GC, which could make for some interesting changes to BMW's lower-tier vehicles. Will this mean those cars will be made RWD-based again?
I think the long dash to axle ratio is also implemented because it presents as premium. Not like the i6 is behind the front axle line anyways (which irks the hell outta me). Seems like it scoots up with each gen.

But I like your thoughts on the smaller tier cars returning to RWD and hope that comes true! 🤗
One can dream!
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      10-21-2021, 01:48 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz1 View Post
As someone that is a "car guy", worked at GM in the 80's and recently worked on chips in ADAS and ASIL-C/D systems how do people keep claiming that Tesla is ahead?

They are ahead in infrastructure, that's true.
They have good battery technology, but BMW, Ford and others are heavily invested in next-gen solid state battery technology. But even now, the technology used in batteries across the board is roughly equivalent.

Tesla is not "the leader" in autonomous technology; they just market their technology using names that imply something they don't have. GM/Cruise is ahead of Tesla in highway autonomous driving and is truly hands free. Not like Tesla, which requires your hands remain on the wheel. Tesla is L2, but so is BMW, Audi, and others.

Tesla is not and never will be FSD. The lack of redundancy in it's camera system is the first issue.

Tesla is the leader in selling EV, but that does not make them the leader in the tech, etc. Tesla had a clean slate. Other companies need to stay in business to transition to EV or fuel cell.
Thanks for this post. One of the most truthful on E90 Post.
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