[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

Attachment 2579726

I really enjoy this thread and would hate for it to disappear for getting political. Someone else mentioned it before. I thought it was worth mentioning again.

Climbs off soapbox....

OK. I won't mention working for Reagan again!

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Smoking marijuana in public is illegal in my state, as is drinking in public.

Really? Every time I'm in LA, San Diego, or SF walking around I pass a ton of people smoking dope and drinking in public. Based on that, I thought it was legal.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

Really? Every time I'm in LA, San Diego, or SF walking around I pass a ton of people smoking dope and drinking in public. Based on that, I thought it was legal.

Naw, that's just them breaking the law.

[Sedan_Clan]

Just so people reading this thread understand what I'm referring to....

[Vivek.]

Sedan_Clan while I don't fully agree with half the things you say, you really do have the patience of a saint.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

Sedan_Clan while I don't fully agree with half the things you say, you really do have the patience of a saint.

Well I appreciate that.

What don't you agree with? Is it merely a difference of opinion on subjective things or are you in disagreement with something factual/statistical? Let's discuss it.

[Vivek.]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Well I appreciate that.

What don't you agree with? Let's discuss it.

Comments on drug users going to jail "like all drug users"....sounds archaic and too 'war on drugs'-y. Live and let live, if someone isn't doing anything wrong (read: currently or potentially affecting those around them) why bother them? I've seen a homeless guy in Denver get ticketed for sleeping at a park, I felt awful for him. Clearly he had nowhere else to go, probably can't pay the citation, so it'll turn into a warrant and he'll be sleeping in jail. For what? Who benefits from that enforcement? This is in the same vein as walking down a street smoking weed. I can walk down the street smoking a cigarette and the people who smoke neither probably have no particular disdain for one over the other; so what benefit is given by writing that citation?

The way you portray things as very black-and-white in a "you break the law, you go to jail"--personally I'd prefer enforcement of laws to be geared towards severity. The guy on the 405 at a 0.23 is far more of a danger to everyone around him than the guy smoking a blunt (I've seen both). If it'll take you as much time to arrest either of them, why waste your time with the guy who's high rather than look out for the guy who's hammered?

[Sedan_Clan]

I was just advised that beginning January 2022, jurors will no longer be removed for anti-law enforcement sentiment alone, but jurors who are pro-law enforcement will still be able to be removed. Interesting times we're in.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

Comments on drug users going to jail "like all drug users"....sounds archaic and too 'war on drugs'-y. Live and let live, if someone isn't doing anything wrong (read: currently or potentially affecting those around them) why bother them? I've seen a homeless guy in Denver get ticketed for sleeping at a park, I felt awful for him. Clearly he had nowhere else to go, probably can't pay the citation, so it'll turn into a warrant and he'll be sleeping in jail. For what? Who benefits from that enforcement? This is in the same vein as walking down a street smoking weed. I can walk down the street smoking a cigarette and the people who smoke neither probably have no particular disdain for one over the other; so what benefit is given by writing that citation?

The way you portray things as very black-and-white in a "you break the law, you go to jail"--personally I'd prefer enforcement of laws to be geared towards severity. The guy on the 405 at a 0.23 is far more of a danger to everyone around him than the guy smoking a blunt (I've seen both). If it'll take you as much time to arrest either of them, why waste your time with the guy who's high rather than look out for the guy who's hammered?

FACT: What you don't see is what those drug users who aren't bothering anybody when you observe them do to others when you're not around. You aren't seeing the issues from the same lens as the law enforcement in your city/town/state. Those drug users are responsible for the theft crimes, assaults, etc.

FACT: Law enforcement doesn't benefit monetarily from citations; the courts/municipalities/state do. The community benefits from the enforcement because their complaints are the reason why we are enforcing such laws/municipal codes.

I use latitude all of the time. If I arrested or cited everybody that the letter of the law said I could, I would never get a break. I agree that the deuce is more dangerous in theory (...and mostly in practice), but the dude smoking the blunt on the corner isn't necessarily up to anything good.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by lebreeze

There are so many other reasons a persons eyes won't Converg/dilate. How could you tell which it is? Some people eyes are always dilated or have some diverg/converg insufficiency. I sometimes have a hard time finding it. It you bust someone on eyes alone that total b.s. But I get you are trained better than me to do it on the side of the road.

That I realize. There are other things we account for which is why we do the complete SFST process.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by lebreeze

No it doesn’t affect the 👀. Convergence or dilation lol.
But you probably know better. I’m only a ophthalmologist

Originally Posted by lebreeze

There are so many other reasons a persons eyes won’t Converg/dilate. How could you tell which it is? Some people eyes are always dilated or have some diverg/converg insufficiency. I sometimes have a hard time finding it. It you bust someone on eyes alone that total b.s. But I get you are trained better than me to do it on the side of the road.

Did you not just inform us in the first post that cannabis doesn't affect the eyes / doesn't have an effect on convergence / dilation? And yet in the second, you appear to be saying it does affect the eyes, but there are other reasons why eyes might not dilate? Which is it?

And he clearly said in his post that it was more than eyes, BP, etc, he'd have to be thorough to make the bust. And even then, it can still be challenged in court no?

[mahalom3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That I realize. There are other things we account for which is why we do the complete SFST process.

I remember a DA at a E-pass training that drinking 4 cans of any type of energy drink like Monsters can get people impaired.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by lebreeze

Like I said there way too many variables. Does weed dilate your eyes and cause convergence insufficiency in general NO. In some people could it cause it sure. But that could depend on a bunch of different reasons. My entire reasons for posting is that there is no way a police officer on the side of the road can tell if you high on weed based on just your eyes. Because I know I couldn't.

We correlate observed [driving] behavior (reasonable suspicion for the stop) with contact observations. Those observations support our SFST's. The results of those investigative findings are then supported by chemical tests (..blood, which will give us Delta-9, Hydroxy, etc.) to get the charge. It happens all of the time. Maybe you should come out and ride; see how it's performed in the field.

[unluky]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

"Gun Fear" is derogatory. I prefer talking about greater gun safety. I was shooting a 22 when I was so young I could hardly stand up. We shot in my back yard, all 4.5 acres of it!
We have a saying in Brklyn: "Trust a car & you soon die". Bill de Blasio is gung ho against traffic fatalities, reshaping much of the city.
Cities are not like country areas, and we usually don't pretend to be. Because of the opportunities that cities give folks, we deal with a larger, more diverse, and more needy population. Some of these people make the wrong choices and use guns to improve their material wealth. Many folks in cities are wealthy, making for more targets.
We could also compare the need for autos with the need for guns in various places and situations.

Murf

LOL @ Gun fear is derogatory.

[premier3is]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

Sedan_Clan while I don't fully agree with half the things you say, you really do have the patience of a saint.

+1

Totally agree, Sedan_Clan patience throughout this whole thread is applaudable. I've been following since day 1 and will always remember someone said... "uh oh, this isn't going to turn out the way you expect" lol.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by premier3is

+1

Totally agree, Sedan_Clan patience throughout this whole thread is applaudable. I've been following since day 1 and will always remember someone said... "uh oh, this isn't going to turn out the way you expect" lol.

I guess he knew what he was in for!

Somebody is learning, even if it's just a lurker.

[Vivek.]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Maybe you should come out and ride; see how it's performed in the field.

Not sure if this is an open offer but I would 100% take you up on it and make the drive down to Socal for a shift of yours. When I was in college one of my buddies worked at the DA office and occasionally did DUI patrol ride-alongs. Seemed to be very interesting.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

FACT: What you don't see is what those drug users who aren't bothering anybody when you observe them do to others when you're not around. You aren't seeing the issues from the same lens as the law enforcement in your city/town/state. Those drug users are responsible for the theft crimes, assaults, etc.

FACT: Law enforcement doesn't benefit monetarily from citations; the courts/municipalities/state do. The community benefits from the enforcement because their complaints are the reason why we are enforcing such laws/municipal codes.

,... but the dude smoking the blunt on the corner isn't necessarily up to anything good.

This is a bit overboard. Most people smoking reefer, in a house or not, are just relaxing. You don't have a better criterion than if a person is puffing grass? That person might not have a private place to relax, which is not the same as being up to no good.

I've been invited to some very nice court houses in some very small towns. These are in large part financed by speed traps on the parkway that passes through the town. The cops get very nice quarters in the bargain.
Plus, in NYS the state cops get the revenue unless the speeder & town reach an agreement on a lower charge. Then the $$ goes to the town!

Murf

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by unluky

LOL @ Gun fear is derogatory.

LOL, I often wonder what fear drives gun owners to need so many pacifiers.
Is that derogatory?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

Not sure if this is an open offer but I would 100% take you up on it and make the drive down to Socal for a shift of yours. When I was in college one of my buddies worked at the DA office and occasionally did DUI patrol ride-alongs. Seemed to be very interesting.

The invite is open.

Originally Posted by Littlebear

This is a bit overboard. Most people smoking reefer, in a house or not, are just relaxing. You don't have a better criterion than if a person is puffing grass? That person might not have a private place to relax, which is not the same as being up to no good.

I've been invited to some very nice court houses in some very small towns. These are in large part financed by speed traps on the parkway that passes through the town. The cops get very nice quarters in the bargain.
Plus, in NYS the state cops get the revenue unless the speeder & town reach an agreement on a lower charge. Then the $$ goes to the town!

Murf

Disagree with the law. Your prerogative. If it's in public, you're subject to citation or arrest.

Speed traps are illegal in California so it's not applicable to anything we do in this state. I've explained where/how fees are distributed here in California. What N.Y. (....or Texas) does is not my concern.

[upstatedoc]

He is a speeder, that explains everything.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

He is a speeder, that explains everything.

Go Speed Racer, go!
But seriously, I don't want to get hit from behind.