[dr.sb]

Originally Posted by JasH

Thanks guys, I will seek out that issue of Top Gear then. I had wrongly thought it was next month's issue.

Can someone pls confirm the issue number, and the "month" on the cover, so I can order the correct back issue?

mpgrant, thanks, that explains your earlier date then

June 2014 Good V Evil

Good read.

Really hoping for some information on the spyder soon!

Sunny

[dr.sb]

Originally Posted by JasH

I already had one for 4 days See here UK i3 test drive

Ah. Thank you! I shall have a read of it now!

[JasH]

Thanks Sunny, I will obtain that back issue

[JasH]

I test drove a high spec Tesla Model S recently. Very interesting, and feels even quicker off the line (first few feet) than the i8. Powerful, quick car, and a great showpiece for electric cars.

[JasH]

I recently had a 50 minute test drive of the Tesla Model S, P85 version. I thought some members here may be interested in my thoughts on it

The Tesla Model S comes in 3 versions. A "60", "85", and the top of the range "P85". These range from £55,000 - £75,000 approximately. A buyer would typically order £5-10k of options on top, and the P85 I drove had at least £10k of options, making it a £85,000 car.

Among other things, it had air suspension and 19" alloys. Both of which may have had an effect on handling and ride, as assessed.

Looking at the car, it is attractive and very wide and long. Quality of body and paint work is not premium however, and is below the standard on modern Skodas.

The boot is huge, and in fact big enough to install 2 small rear facing seats in it. The front storage compartment is in fact around the same size as an i3's boot! This car is big.

Legroom is also huge, front and rear. In fact, with the driver's seat fully back, I could only just fully depress the accelerator pedal. However, for a 5 seater big family car, it has a major, and fatal, flaw. Rear headroom is lacking, to the point where my head was hitting the roof - just as in the rear of the i8. However, the i8 is a 2+2, not a full 5 (7) seater family car.

The problem is that the Tesla has a badly designed sloping roofline. A terrible idea in a large family car, and truly a case of form over function. Combined with the rear seat being high due to the batteries underneath, it results in inadequate rear headroom.

Sitting in the front, the car is comfortable, spacious and airy. The large tablet style touch screen in the centre looks odd and out of place. Flashy yes, but it makes the car seems gimmicky. The instrument display is fine though. I noticed though that a passenger using internet functions on the centre display stops the navigation being displayed on both screens, which was annoying.

The interior trim is cheap and flimsy, and not befitting a car in this price range. Nowhere near the quality of even the i3, never mind the i8.

This car had a lot of options, and I liked the height adjustable suspension feature a lot. I wish my i8 had this.

From discussion with Tesla, I would estimate that the real world range of the large battery version of the car, is 200 miles when driven under similar conditions as my i3 REx test, which gave 79 miles range (i3 BEV estimated range 85 miles). A driver could reasonably extend each of these ranges by 20% if deliberately driving in a frugal manner and in eco mode.

Moving off, the Tesla is smooth, quiet and powerful. It immediately feels very nice indeed to drive. And just as calming and relaxing as the i3 and i8 (in e-drive).

The steering is extremely light, which suits the car. Putting the steering in Sport mode achieves nothing more than making it a little too heavy, as it still offers no true feedback whatsoever - in common with most other modern cars.

Moving off is astonishing! At the traffic light Grand Prix, if you accelerate fully, it is akin to asking Scotty to go to "Warp Factor Nine" One split second you are in one spot, the next you have launched forward 100 feet, with accompanying knock back of your head.

This is similar to the i3 and i8, but more pronounced at the point of moving off, because it is all electric (unlike i8), very powerful, and you get 100% of the torque immediately. Simply fantastic! And I could not get enough of trying its acceleration. It also feels very fast because it moves off so silently, unlike the i8 in Sports mode.

It has enough torque to spin the rear wheels on a straight dry road whilst moving, if the surface is anything less than perfect. The stability controls quickly reign the driver in though

That acceleration is the single biggest selling point of this car, for me.

The big downside of the Tesla though is that it is 2.1 tonnes, and it feels heavy too. Furthermore, it can only run at maximum power for 15 seconds before it has to reduce power! This was confirmed by Tesla to me, and is due to massive heat being generated in the batteries when under maximum power. Its glycol cooling system cannot cope with so much heat at once. In real world driving, this is unlikely to be an issue however.

Grip levels are reasonable, and the car is well balanced when turning. However, under very hard acceleration it transfers so much of its massive weight to the rear that steering response is significantly reduced, and it feels unwilling to turn.

It corners with little roll, thanks to its low centre of gravity. This is a heavy car though, and needs to be driven as such. It is not a car to throw around twisty roads. However, its massive power and acceleration do make you wish it were more nimble in its handling.

Overall, it is an impressive car that is very nice and enjoyable to drive. In P85 guise, it is also extremely quick, to the point where I cannot think of any car that will beat it off the lights up to around 20mph (not counting launch control activated runs in combustion cars). The fatal flaw in the car however is the rear headroom, which is unacceptable in a family 5/7 seater car.













PS. The Tesla staff were more interested in my Exige than in their own cars A very nice car enthusiast accompanied me on my test drive, and he talked as much about the Lotus as the Tesla, and wanted a ride in the Lotus afterwards.

[ddk632]

Excellent write up, as we've come to expect nothing less from you! I've got to test drive one of these things.

I will say, no matter how fast it is off the line, the looks of this car just kill it for me personally.

[Carac]

What about the differences in charging time? I know people that bought Teslas before they had a level 2 charger installed and said they were only getting 20 miles of range per 8-10 hours of charging...which in theory means it could take nearly 5 days in charge a Tesla from empty...but all you need is 5~ish hours with a i8 on a regular wall socket...or just drive down to the nearest gas station. Kind of a big deal if you are in a rural area with no charging options.

[JasH]

David, thanks, you are too kind No matter how quick it is 0-30, it is not a sports car in terms of its handling. It's a comfortable, very quick family car.

Originally Posted by ddk632

I will say, no matter how fast it is off the line, the looks of this car just kill it for me personally.

Come on, the Lotus is not that bad looking

....just kidding



Carac, big batteries mean big charging time From their data, I'd estimate a full charge taking:

(USA) 120V (12A) - 81 hours
(UK) 240V (40A) - 29 hours

Note that these seem to be some kind of high current charger boxes, as I know the UK standard BMW domestic box is 32A. So, I am not sure 40A is even possible in reality from a typical domestic mains system here.

So, in reality, I'd expect about 50 hours in the UK, and much longer in the USA unless using a high current box. Just estimating though. I would not even want to think about charging it from a US standard domestic 120V low current supply....probably a week, as you suggest!

[Carac]

Originally Posted by JasH

Carac, big batteries mean big charging time From their data, I'd estimate a full charge taking

Yeah, 8kWh vs 85kWh. I was just making a point how people forget what is a cut and dry deal breaker for some when it comes to the Tesla. My 6 hour drive to visit a friend would become a 16 hour one since there's nothing but public stations between her place and mine. And that's running it to empty and charging JUST enough to complete the journey, then finding a charging station near her and leaving it there for a day. It will become less of an issue in the future but according to their map, it will be at least past 2015. So even if I was interested in a Tesla, I can't make one work for my location and how I like to travel.

[JasH]

Yes, absolutely. And there is the issue of always asking friends to charge your car on their power supply. Seems rather rude to me....or maybe that's just me being a bit odd/"British"

[StuM]

Thanks JasH, great and balanced, objective review. While I haven't driven the Tesla, there sure are a lot of them around here. (SoCal, USA) I find that it's not a bad looking car, but seems rather ordinary and blends in with so many other similar sedans. I attend a lot of local auto shows and the Tesla's just don't attract a crowd or much attention. The owners that I've talked with voice charging concerns similar to what is mentioned here by others. Lengthy charging times, "charge station anxiety" and the handling/acceleration limitations mentioned by others.
I do agree that general practicality must be better than our i8s, but then again, most of us are not buying the car for overall DD practicality.
For me, in the end, I want the blend of new technology, good combination of sports/efficiency and most of all, the constant joy of the "look-back glance" each time I park it anywhere.
We also all know which car will garner the most massive attention at a show, stoplight or on the road, anywhere

[JasH]

Stu, thanks

Yes, the Tesla looks like an ordinary - but attractive - family car. It attracted no attention at all when I drove it.

To be fair to the car, I did not think of it in any way being a competitor for the i8 or i3. i8 being an exotic sports car, and the i3 being much smaller than the Tesla.

The Tesla will be a competitor for the i7, when one is produced though

[x5love]

Originally Posted by JasH

Stu, thanks

Yes, the Tesla looks like an ordinary - but attractive - family car. It attracted no attention at all when I drove it.

To be fair to the car, I did not think of it in any way being a competitor for the i8 or i3. i8 being an exotic sports car, and the i3 being much smaller than the Tesla.

The Tesla will be a competitor for the i7, when one is produced though

or i5 maybe?

always thought the tesla was comparable to the 5 series and E class rather than the 7 or S? I could be wrong.

[StuM]

If it ever really does come out, I believe the new NSX will be a much more direct and strong competitor to the i8. Probably more sporty too, if the released and rumored details are close to factual. The concept car NSX's shown in the major shows over the past year or two looked very keen and intriguing. I saw one at the 2012 LA show. The interior mock-ups look strong, as well. Yet first, they have to get that "burst into flames on the road" little problem fixed!

I'm on my local Acura dealer's list for the anticipated NSX, along with being #1 on my BMW dealers list for a hoped for i8 spyder. Will need to see what and when actual production comes forward on either, or both.

[JasH]

x5love, I am not sure about that. In size terms it is more i7. In price perhaps i5. But in quality, neither of them In perceived luxury, yes probably i5.

StuM, yes definitely if the NSX comes out looking like the concept pictures, it is definitely a close i8 competitor. The non-concept spy pics look a little ordinary though, and I suspect those reflect the true appearance of the car. Depending on the specs, it may well be much better/faster than i8 perhaps. It might be trying to be more of a La Ferrari / 918 / P1 type of car.

The NSX is certainly looking like a fiery little car

[JasH]

Motortrend i8 review

"Think of the i8 as the thinking (wealthy) man’s Porsche 918 Spyder. Only I’ve driven both, and I like the BMW better. Honestly, it’s a masterpiece."

[JasH]

"An engineer happened to mention the electric motor has a 40 hp reserve that could be used later. The current output of the electric motor was chosen to optimize the grip available at the front tires."

Source

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

In case you want to read the i8 and Hyruracan article on TG June...

[JasH]

Thanks I really appreciate the effort But I ordered the back issue because it was so well written.

By contrast the i8 article in the BMW magazine was very poor.

I just hope Top Gear have the i8 on the next season of the TV show.

[JasH]

Bear in mind he own a LaFerrari.

Link to full article


It's the BM double-wow: The future of motoring has become reality in BMW's breathtaking hybrid supercar







BMW i8 ★★★★★

I first saw this car on the 14th tee at Wentworth when I was taking part in the pro-am competition at the BMW Masters. It was the pro’s prize for a hole-in-one; incentive indeed.

If there’s been a more ambitiously designed car to make it into production since Malcolm Sayers’ Jaguar E Type landed from outer space in 1961, I’d like to know what it is.

I can’t think of anything that even comes close. Sure, there’s the McLaren P1, LaFerrari and the Porsche 918, but we were sort of expecting those. Whereas the BMW i8 came out of nowhere.



The BMW i8's lines, her fins, her scoops, her general all-round daring and rakishness meld together in a fearless mix of the precocious and audacious, every nip and tuck deserving a round of applause of its own

The BMW i8's lines, her fins, her scoops, her general all-round daring and rakishness meld together in a fearless mix of the precocious and audacious, every nip and tuck deserving a round of applause of its own

As a kid, I always wondered why the world’s motor shows trumpeted so many beautiful, space-age prototypes and concepts – yet when it came to the eventual production version of the same cars, everything had been toned down and tamed.

Almost as if to make us like them less, not more.

I always puzzled over this curious approach to marketing, but this time BMW has totally gone for it.

Think Kate Bush and her perfectly conceived comeback show, which no one dreamed could be even a tenth as good as she obviously knew it was going to be.

The bods at BMW have clearly been building towards something very special for years now, and they must have been pretty sure they’d nailed it if the way the i8 emerged – fully formed and functional – is anything to go by.

It’s just so futuristic-looking, and equally as breathtaking and brave on the inside as it looks from without.



This is a cockpit you not so much sit in as wear. In fact, I wouldn¿t be surprised if BMW offers to take it in or out, according to your individual measurements, just to make the fit all that more snug
















+2
This is a cockpit you not so much sit in as wear. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if BMW offers to take it in or out, according to your individual measurements, just to make the fit all that more snug

Her lines, her fins, her scoops, her general all-round daring and rakishness meld together in a fearless mix of the precocious and audacious, every nip and tuck deserving a round of applause of its own.

And as if this wasn’t enough, BMW has put together various colour combinations to accentuate the different aspects of her outer and inner design.

This, again, is nothing short of genius. Available in a rainbow of optional colour packages, each comes in a celebration of its own bespoke swatch. Mmm, gimme more, I want to eat it, every square millimetre of her.

Now open the door, feast your eyes on the vital internal organs and see if you don’t begin to ask yourself, as I did, who is responsible for such far-sighted vision?

For there are wow factors wherever you look. We need to know their names. Are they male or female, young or old? Are they even of this Earth? Goodness only knows why more brilliant, creative minds aren’t allowed to run this free by their corporate paymasters.

What other magic are we missing out on? This is a cockpit you not so much sit in as wear. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if BMW offers to take it in or out, according to your individual measurements, just to make the fit all that more snug.



She¿s Herbie, she¿s the DeLorean time machine in Back To The Future, she¿s Knight Rider¿s K.I.T. all in one. But is she fast? Yes. But is she smooth? Yes
















+2
She’s Herbie, she’s the DeLorean time machine in Back To The Future, she’s Knight Rider’s K.I.T. all in one. But is she fast? Yes. But is she smooth? Yes

And so how does she drive? Pretty damn excellently. In fact, there’s so much going on worthy of a mention that I don’t really know where to begin.

She audibly wooshes into life the moment you press the power button before creeping off deftly in complete silence once drive is selected and the accelerator is feathered.

It’s all quite mystical until you ask for more – at which point all the factors I’d read in the bumf beforehand suddenly come to life.

The first thing you realise is that you are the human filling in a rear engine/front engine sandwich.

There’s conventional combustion pushing you from behind (via the crazy little nuclear-turbo’d 1.5-litre engine) and then there’s electricity pulling you from the front via a 96kW motor.

Sometimes these power units work individually, sometimes in unison, evinced by the constantly changing digital gauges on the dashboard.




None of which really matters, but it’s all good fun, especially when words like ‘Boost’, ‘Charge’ and ‘Kerpow’ flash up in front of you. (All right, I may be exaggerating about the ‘Kerpow’.)

I can’t deny I was a bit confused over the whole ‘when to charge’ via the mains issue, though, and which range indicators I needed to worry about most.

As I was further confused by the claimed stat of a potential 135 miles to the gallon and how exactly one might achieve this.

But such trivia becomes irrelevant when you shift to E mode direct from Sport and witness the gear stick moving from left to right on its own.

This is what we want! She’s Herbie, she’s the DeLorean time machine in Back To The Future, she’s Knight Rider’s K.I.T. all in one.

But is she fast? Yes. But is she smooth? Yes. But is she quiet in town yet howls like a wolf out on the open road? Yes! Yes! Yes! (Where’s Meg Ryan when you need her...)

There are things about the car I don’t like, but to talk about most of them would be like saying the Scottish Highlands could be better if it weren’t for the odd sticky out rock.

More justifiable gripes, however, include the gullwing doors, which though undeniably gorgeous are entirely impractical in car parks. And you really will end up banging your head on them. A lot.

Entering and exiting the car is made even more treacherous by the inordinately wide sill, which forms part of the all-in-one carbon chassis.

Carbon may well be a safer, lighter and more malleable material all round, but it’s also a pain in the backside for the less agile i8 owner.


TECH SPEC


£99,845, bmw.co.uk

Petrol engine 1.5-litre three-cylinder turbo

Electric motor BMW eDrive synchronous motor

Transmission Six-speed automatic Power 362hp

0-60mph 4.4 secs

Top speed 155mph

CO2 emissions 49g/km (zero tax band)
.
Visibility is also a bit of an issue, as the windscreen A pillars are similarly over-thick.

The BMW infotainment system continues to be mildly annoying with its conflicting ‘twist one way and nudge the other’ oversized control knob, compounded by the same, slightly confusing graphics package that’s in the new Mini I talked about a few weeks ago.

And, as much fun as she is to drive, her steering is lighter and more disconnected, lost even, than I’d expect in a car of such quality and performance.

This for me suggests a less serious driver’s car than, say, a Porsche in the same category.

But you can even forget all that because the simple fact is that she is one of the most gorgeous and courageous cars ever to come to market.

A 360-degree tour de force, a marvel, a champion among champions, a one-off that will make any other brand new car (save the million dollar plus club) look like an antique in comparison .


AND THE VERDICT?


‘One of the most gorgeous cars ever made. A tour de force, a marvel – a champion among champions’
.
Oh deary deary me, rest of the car world – what are you going to do about this one?

She is not simply Berlin’s next top model, she’s rewritten the rules of evolutionary automotive design. She is the new dawn of a new day.

She is Whittle’s jet engine, Logie Baird’s television, Mary Quant’s mini skirt.

Things will never – can never – be the same again. BMW has looked over the garden fence on behalf of the rest of us, and in doing so has discovered this staggering beauty of the junge frau next door.

[Carac]

Originally Posted by JasH

Bear in mind he own a LaFerrari.

Link to full article


It's the BM double-wow: The future of motoring has become reality in BMW's breathtaking hybrid supercar

AND THE VERDICT?


‘One of the most gorgeous cars ever made. A tour de force, a marvel – a champion among champions’
.
Oh deary deary me, rest of the car world – what are you going to do about this one?

She is not simply Berlin’s next top model, she’s rewritten the rules of evolutionary automotive design. She is the new dawn of a new day.

She is Whittle’s jet engine, Logie Baird’s television, Mary Quant’s mini skirt.

Things will never – can never – be the same again. BMW has looked over the garden fence on behalf of the rest of us, and in doing so has discovered this staggering beauty of the junge frau next door.

I think he likes it...

[JasH]

Originally Posted by Carac

I think he likes it...

LOL, yes

And the Jalopnik review is ever more positive, if such a thing were possible. I am amazed it is their highest rated car ever JALOPNIK REVIEW LINK

Double post....but who cares


btw, has anyone else also put their name down for the i9? I did, a couple of weeks ago