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      03-27-2020, 08:01 PM   #3543
NormanConquest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
The space the battery in isolation take up is, again, a short sighted view that misses the bigger picture.

The net space taken up by an EV drivetrain (battery, motors) is considerably smaller than the space taken up by an ICE drivetrain (gas tank, engine, trans, diff, drive shaft, etc).

There's a reason EVs (at least EVs that are designed as EVs-- not half ass converted ICEVs) have so much more interior/trunk space than ICEVs of the same size.



Strawman argument. Nobody here is arguing in favor of EVs as commercial vehicles.
average weight of a tesla 4071.938
average weight of my car 3,555 lbs

that a 12% difference now scale that up

now

cybertruck estimated weight is 6,500
F150 since that what tesla compare to is 4,069

that a 37.4% difference

now the real laugh

Tesla Tractor 25,000
Average Tractor 19,000

that a 24% difference

what makes the Tesla Tractor so comical is the max legal weight on the driver axel is 34,000 so if your pulling a Refrigerated trailer, forget about it your in violation of the federal law.

Beside that the typical pay is about dollars per 20lbs of cargo (mind you I know cube and distance matter but lets go with weight for now). So that 300 dollars per run you will lose because your driving a Tesla truck, and we aren't even talking about how much money you will lose in time recharging.

So tell me how are EV the future when the biggest industry for ICE and the biggest polluters will never adopt EV as it currently stands.

now lets talk range
an average tractor with a fuel tank can go 2000 miles before running empty
estimate range for Telsa Tractor is ...... 500

LMFAO!!!!!

so to get another 2000 miles out of a tractor will take 20 minutes tops
telsa will take..... 10 hours

WOW, really look at the future of losing a days work.

Last edited by NormanConquest; 03-27-2020 at 08:21 PM..
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      03-27-2020, 08:42 PM   #3544
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Assigning it a "religion for the Left" just proves my point. There are many educated people who let their personal beliefs dictate what telnet regard as facts vs fallacy. The fact that we both are well educated and don't agree is proof of this. The fact that most people against the EV don't mind that this thread is in the politics section speaks volumes. The argument that this is in fact a political argument tells me that it was MADE into a political argument by those who have formed opinions on their political party platforms rather than facts and common sense.
This thread started in the general discussion Forum and was moved by a Moderator to the politics/religion Forum a few years ago.

My beliefs (i.e. not opinions) regarding climate change are purely based on my education in science and have absolutely nothing to do with politics. There is no political benefit to believing anthropogenic climate change is not effecting humans ability to survive on the planet Earth. Saying the sky is falling as espoused by the Left has complete political benefit for the Left.
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      03-27-2020, 08:46 PM   #3545
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
engine and transmission replacement/rebuild is way cheaper then 16k (that the battery itself, not including installation charge)
Did you not read past the first sentence?


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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Currently there are used i3 batteries for $6k. You can get a complete Tesla 3 pack for around $9k. In 15 years or so, those price will go down as the market get saturated with used EV's, just like they do for used ICE cars.
New engine for my S4 4.2 V8 was $14k. It's not too far off.
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      03-27-2020, 08:58 PM   #3546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
average weight of a tesla 4071.938
average weight of my car 3,555 lbs

that a 12% difference now scale that up

now

cybertruck estimated weight is 6,500
F150 since that what tesla compare to is 4,069

that a 37.4% difference blah blah blah blah about something no one is arguing
You really have selective hearing/reading.

"Strawman argument. Nobody here is arguing in favor of EVs as commercial vehicles."

Also, the post you quoted was about onboard space and you're talking about weight? Non sequitur.

BTW the current M340i weighs 4000lbs. In fact, most modern midsized cars weigh close to 4000 lbs.

There are many trade-offs going from an ICE to an EV, which are subjective to the individual. Stop telling what I can and cannot deem appropriate for my lifestyle. "Don't tread on me".
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      03-27-2020, 09:04 PM   #3547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
You really have selective hearing/reading.

"Strawman argument. Nobody here is arguing in favor of EVs as commercial vehicles."

Also, the post you quoted was about onboard space and you're talking about weight? Non sequitur.

BTW the current M340i weighs 4000lbs. In fact, most modern midsized cars weigh close to 4000 lbs.

There are many trade-offs going from an ICE to an EV, which are subjective to the individual. Stop telling what I can and cannot deem appropriate for my lifestyle. "Don't tread on me".
That fine, but don't preach it the future when obviousely it lacking in many departments for the majority of the population. EV is niche and will remain so for the foreseeable future.
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      03-27-2020, 09:05 PM   #3548
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
This thread started in the general discussion Forum and was moved by a Moderator to the politics/religion Forum a few years ago.

My beliefs (i.e. not opinions) regarding climate change are purely based on my education in science and have absolutely nothing to do with politics.

There is no political benefit to believing anthropogenic climate change is not effecting humans ability to survive on the planet Earth. Saying the sky is falling as espoused by the Left has complete political benefit for the Left.
"This has nothing to do with politics..."

"(This) is espoused by the Left!!!!"

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      03-27-2020, 09:11 PM   #3549
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
That fine, but don't preach it the future when obviousely it lacking in many departments for the majority of the population. EV is niche and will remain so for the foreseeable future.
The EV is attractive in urban regions because it has large benefits for highly populated areas. Logically, as our population grows, rural regions will shrink proportionally. It is the future because the EV has multiple energy sources, a lot of which are renewable. The ICE has one finite resource. Logic dictates that over a certain amount of time, we will have to ditch the ICE to preserve that resource for other necessary uses. This has been said multiple times in this thread and the only argument against it is "but that's so far away...". Yes, it's far away... thats what the future encompasses.
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      03-27-2020, 09:38 PM   #3550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The EV is attractive in urban regions because it has large benefits for highly populated areas. Logically, as our population grows, rural regions will shrink proportionally. It is the future because the EV has multiple energy sources, a lot of which are renewable. The ICE has one finite resource. Logic dictates that over a certain amount of time, we will have to ditch the ICE to preserve that resource for other necessary uses. This has been said multiple times in this thread and the only argument against it is "but that's so far away...". Yes, it's far away... thats what the future encompasses.
You said it yourself that your charge your EV at home, urban area generally are dominated by apartment complexes
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      03-27-2020, 09:44 PM   #3551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
So in short
They weigh to much for commercial use
They take up too much space for commerical use
They take too long to recharge for general use
They aren't environmentally friendly.
Amazon is so dumb, right?

https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/19/2...ff-bezos-order
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      03-27-2020, 09:59 PM   #3552
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Small vans, and yea it dumb as they have to keep weight below 5 tons or they will be require to issue medical cards for their drivers and limit legal roadways they can travel on which kind of defeats the whole purpose of light duty vans.
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      03-27-2020, 10:01 PM   #3553
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Originally Posted by Gamb1t View Post
COVID19 did more to reduce pollution than all the Greta Thunberg screaming, flight shaming, EV worshippers, lefty agenda parties etc combined.
The C19 stimulus package costs the same as converting all of American transportation to net zero emissions under the Green New Deal (the $1.3T-$2.7T cost estimate was made by a right wing think tank led by Holz-Eakin, so if anything the estimate is high).

Personally, I prefer the latter approach since it doesn't kill thousands and doesn't cost millions of jobs to implement.
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      03-27-2020, 10:08 PM   #3554
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Small vans, and yea it dumb as they have to keep weight below 5 tons or they will be require to issue medical cards for their drivers and limit legal roadways they can travel on which kind of defeats the whole purpose of light duty vans.
Let me parse this, and you tell me if I got it wrong:

Amazon is dumb because they're ordering light duty vans, but all they'll get will be light duty vans?
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      03-27-2020, 10:10 PM   #3555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Let me parse this, and you tell me if I got it wrong:

Amazon is dumb because they're ordering light duty vans, but all they'll get will be light duty vans?
They are ordering van design to be light duty but due to weight cause by ev battery will reduce cargo weight ability or increase the gvw above 4 to 5 tons which will restrict eligible work pool and taking the most efficent route.
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      03-27-2020, 10:16 PM   #3556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
They are ordering van design to be light duty but due to weight cause by ev battery will reduce cargo weight ability or increase the gvw above 4 to 5 tons which will restrict eligible work pool and taking the most efficent route.
I'm sure no one at Amazon have thought about this.

You should offer them your consulting services, save them from this colossal mistake.
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      03-27-2020, 10:18 PM   #3557
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Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I'm sure no one at Amazon have thought about this.

You should offer them your consulting services, save them from this colossal mistake.
They are a public company, public companies are notorious for doing stupid mistakes.
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      03-27-2020, 10:19 PM   #3558
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Tesla battery pack.

it's begun.
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      03-27-2020, 10:22 PM   #3559
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
They are a public company, public companies are notorious for doing stupid mistakes.
Did you short AMZN when it was $50/share by any chance?
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      03-27-2020, 10:23 PM   #3560
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Oh Norman,

My F250 weighs 8200 lbs and is rated for 10, 000 lbs bumper pull. The Tesla truck is supposed to weigh 6,500 lbs per you. It's rated at 14,000 lbs towing.

Since i'm clearly not smart enough to do math, can you crunch that for me?

Oh, I may have forgotten to mention the Tesla truck is also the fastest car in the world under $250k. That EV will replace both my M3 and Superduty.

I will again mention I'm after performance and low maintenance. Faster than F%$# is a nice bonus. Faster than anything you will ever own makes me giggle.
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      03-27-2020, 10:28 PM   #3561
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The Cybertruck isn’t even out yet. How is it the “fastest car in the world for under 250k?”

You’re telling me this truck is capable of running 10’s in the 1/4 mile?
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      03-27-2020, 10:28 PM   #3562
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Originally Posted by Captain Starbucks View Post
Oh Norman,

My F250 weighs 8200 lbs and is rated for 10, 000 lbs bumper pull. The Tesla truck is supposed to weigh 6,500 lbs per you. It's rated at 14,000 lbs towing.

Since i'm clearly not smart enough to do math, can you crunch that for me?

Oh, I may have forgotten to mention the Tesla truck is also the fastest car in the world under $250k. That EV will replace both my M3 and Superduty.

I will again mention I'm after performance and low maintenance. Faster than F%$# is a nice bonus. Faster than anything you will ever own makes me giggle.
Tesla pulled a base f150 not an f250

Btw how many pulls can you do before you drain your battery? 2? 3?
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      03-27-2020, 10:37 PM   #3563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
It's $16k after 15 years. That's analogous to replacing an engine on a 2005 car, which isn't unheard of. However, you don't get a brand new engine for a 15 year old car for full price do you? No, you get a used one so that you aren't spending more than the car is worth. Currently there are used i3 batteries for $6k. You can get a complete Tesla 3 pack for around $9k. In 15 years or so, those price will go down as the market get saturated with used EV's, just like they do for used ICE cars.

I don't know why you are bringing up loss of legs... what are you talking about? The Tesla and the i3 both have collision mitigation. My i3 has stopped itself when I was getting too close to a stopped car in front of me. But then again, even ICE cars have that.
engine and transmission replacement/rebuild is way cheaper then 16k (that the battery itself, not including installation charge)
Nobody really rebuilds modern automatic transmissions these days. IJS
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      03-27-2020, 10:50 PM   #3564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
You said it yourself that your charge your EV at home, urban area generally are dominated by apartment complexes
FYI, just about every urban apartment complex in silicon valley has BEV power spots, and for street parking, many daytime work parking lots converted to nighttime charging - e.g., ma & pa grocery stores, liquor stores, fast food, banks, corp parking ramps, etc.

Huge moneymaker for formerly struggling store owners who were mostly empty at night, but now pulling in nice, passive 2nd incomes. It's super easy to do anywhere and excellent economic development for urban small business owners.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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