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      10-04-2020, 10:55 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fender150 View Post
Mercedes was only an engine supplier until they bought the honda-brawn team. If anyone is likely to know plans first and get a heads up, the funny heads up of 7 years you mention lol, that would be FERRARI.

Again presenting zero proof of anything, and Fyi, bottas can not match Hams sector times to 0.01 if he is running less power sorry to break it to you
Well one thing, we can agree to disagree
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      10-04-2020, 12:10 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Well one thing, we can agree to disagree
My friend , actually there's more involved in this latest discussion regarding the power of the Mercs PU .
It's regarding the Mercs ERS-system : Allied to the combustion engine are two hybrid systems, one recovered kinetic energy of the car under braking (ERS-K) and another recovers the kinetic energy of the turbo charger, although in typical confusing F1 parlance, this is a heat recovery and the moniker applied is H for eat, so this is termed ERS-H.

MGU is a permanent-magnet brushless AC electric motor. It will both power the car as it deploys the stored energy, or it can work as a generator to put energy back into the battery. The battery is a pack of Li-ion cells, that are capable of rapidly deploying or storing lots of energy to the MGU. In between these two is the Control Electronic unit, which converts the AC electric of the MGU to the DC of the battery.

In terms of power, the ERS system is capped at 161hp (120kw)
From what we know the Benz has an huge advantage in the F1-FE regarding the electric battery power system .
This latest advanced electric technology is also used in the Mercs F1 PU's .In terms of power, the ERS system is capped at 161hp (120kw)
But by the latest observations It's for sure that the Mercs can push the ERS power stronger through the same lap .
By this technology the Benz can store more electric power in the advanced storage of the battery .
In generator mode the ERS-H can be used in several ways; some simple, others more complex and some probably still secret.
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      10-04-2020, 12:56 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
My friend , actually there's more involved in this latest discussion regarding the power of the Mercs PU .
It's regarding the Mercs ERS-system : Allied to the combustion engine are two hybrid systems, one recovered kinetic energy of the car under braking (ERS-K) and another recovers the kinetic energy of the turbo charger, although in typical confusing F1 parlance, this is a heat recovery and the moniker applied is H for eat, so this is termed ERS-H.

MGU is a permanent-magnet brushless AC electric motor. It will both power the car as it deploys the stored energy, or it can work as a generator to put energy back into the battery. The battery is a pack of Li-ion cells, that are capable of rapidly deploying or storing lots of energy to the MGU. In between these two is the Control Electronic unit, which converts the AC electric of the MGU to the DC of the battery.

In terms of power, the ERS system is capped at 161hp (120kw)
From what we know the Benz has an huge advantage in the F1-FE regarding the electric battery power system .
This latest advanced electric technology is also used in the Mercs F1 PU's .In terms of power, the ERS system is capped at 161hp (120kw)
But by the latest observations It's for sure that the Mercs can push the ERS power stronger through the same lap .
By this technology the Benz can store more electric power in the advanced storage of the battery .
In generator mode the ERS-H can be used in several ways; some simple, others more complex and some probably still secret.
Yes this was demonstrated by the Mercs holding top speed longer on Sochi straight with RB losing time as reported by Max saying losing 6/10 sec per lap.
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      10-04-2020, 03:09 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Yes this was demonstrated by the Mercs holding top speed longer on Sochi straight with RB losing time as reported by Max saying losing 6/10 sec per lap.
ERS has nothing to do with top speed but, rather, acceleration. This is why they harvest at the end of the straight.

The reduction in top speed at the end of the straight has to do with harvesting and not Vmax.
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      10-04-2020, 04:42 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
ERS has nothing to do with top speed but, rather, acceleration. This is why they harvest at the end of the straight.

The reduction in top speed at the end of the straight has to do with harvesting and not Vmax.
Sochi benefited BOT and the RB system wasn't being harvested as much from the lack of braking ers/kers according to MV hence the 6/10 sec loss per lap.
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      10-04-2020, 05:58 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Merc' is not winning because of its engine ?
Can you tell me mate , why the Mercs are 17 km/h faster on the straights ?
Even the F1 grandma (Bottas) can win in a Merc with 0 racecraft...

And why last year the Ferrari's were 21 km/ faster than the Mercs ?
Not the engine ..Are you serious ? Mate give me a break !
mate Merc' won races up until this year without being the fastest on the straights.. and they re still not the fastest they think more about the corners.. car is simply grippy.. its efficient.. and as i ve said.. if engine only is a reason Merc' to win.. why Racing Point or Williams cant win races still.. cause Merc'.. is.. a.. great.. team.. working in harmony.. even someone you follow closely Horner said this as well.. Merc' is like a big machine working in harmony..

and btw.. anything Merc' uses is being inspected 2-3 times recently.. just for trying to find something illegal on the car.. but its all legal.. if engineering is better sorry but thats why teams compete with each other and they re in F1..

If Red Bull having problems with Honda, if Ferrari were doing secret stuff with its engine and has to give up on that.. but Merc' doesnt stumble things normally goes better for Merc's.. and it creates a gap.. which what we re watching this year.. wait for next year.. McLarens will come into play.. Red Bull wont be that relaxed like now on the grid for being 2nd.. then probably here there ll be some blames on McLaren as well.. we ll see time flies mate..

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Sochi benefited BOT and the RB system wasn't being harvested as much from the lack of braking ers/kers according to MV hence the 6/10 sec loss per lap.
so if Red Bull's systems are not good enough.. its Merc's fault my friend?
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      10-05-2020, 02:50 AM   #271
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so if Red Bull's systems are not good enough.. its Merc's fault my friend?[/QUOTE]

Your words that refers to queer Sochi track.Easy to say now that Honda made announcement but think ahead that in '22 only 3 engine manufacturers and Dominacelli himself doubting more manufacturers entering because of Government soon to be sanctions on new fuel cars *(there are doubts that it can be done as they say, and opposition is growing.I myself have joined an action group against this).
To tailor back a monster teams advantage I can only see success ballast being brought in if the situation continues, as you know my friend it's used in other motorsports so F1 can't be excluded just because it's so called 'pinnacle'.

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      10-05-2020, 03:37 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
^ I'm sure I'm more a fan than you give credit for and I do give praise where it's due. If it was as clear cut as you perceive then indeed it would be more shall we say fair.
Again I go back to what I've been saying all along largely ignored that Merc have always had the 2-3 odd years advantage with the hybrid in pace and tractability as they knew it was coming while the others didn't.
In the meantime in the quest for fairness I think it's reasonable to make suggestions to make the racing more competitive for others rather than having a 'one man show' (which has been going on for far too long) most of the time with an obviously subserviant teammate making the racing for HAM a cakewalk.
Thanks.
This is from RaceCar Engineering 6 years ago in 2014 regarding Cosworth and their PU. Please notice the stated timeline for the Power Units. Mercedes had no advantage. It was all known to any interested party. Including VW who insisted on an I4 ICE configuration which is relevant to their product line. The ICE configuration was changed to V-6 in 2011 AFTER VW decided to stay away from Formula One, once again.

Mercedes simply did a better job than everyone else. Good on them and shame on everyone else. You don't punish the valedictorian of the class because there are 5 slapdicks who can't learn their schoolwork.

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      10-05-2020, 03:56 PM   #273
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RB HONDA got "Clipping" at Sochi => https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...sochi/4883663/
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      10-05-2020, 05:06 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
RB HONDA got "Clipping" at Sochi => https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...sochi/4883663/
Yes the 'few heavy braking zones and long flat sections' of Sochi as written there was the underlining factor of Max's loss to BOT on the straight running out of the 160bhp extra because the recovery system could not keep up and as stated a loss of 6/10ths sec over a lap.
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      10-05-2020, 06:44 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
This is from RaceCar Engineering 6 years ago in 2014 regarding Cosworth and their PU. Please notice the stated timeline for the Power Units. Mercedes had no advantage. It was all known to any interested party. Including VW who insisted on an I4 ICE configuration which is relevant to their product line. The ICE configuration was changed to V-6 in 2011 AFTER VW decided to stay away from Formula One, once again.

Mercedes simply did a better job than everyone else. Good on them and shame on everyone else. You don't punish the valedictorian of the class because there are 5 slapdicks who can't learn their schoolwork.

Cheers-MK
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      10-06-2020, 03:24 AM   #276
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[QUOTE=MKSixer;26764741]This is from RaceCar Engineering 6 years ago in 2014 regarding Cosworth and their PU. Please notice the stated timeline for the Power Units. Mercedes had no advantage. It was all known to any interested party. Including VW who insisted on an I4 ICE configuration which is relevant to their product line. The ICE configuration was changed to V-6 in 2011 AFTER VW decided to stay away from Formula One, once again.

Mercedes simply did a better job than everyone else. Good on them and shame on everyone else. You don't punish the valedictorian of the class because there are 5 slapdicks who can't learn their schoolwork.

*So just all because VW didn't want to continue...with what engine the V8? FIA changed it to V6 hybrid.How convenient.
Then how come Lauda told Montemezollo in confidence that Merc were ALREADY WORKING on a hybrid V6 way back in 2007 as I have already written.

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      10-06-2020, 05:21 AM   #277
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*Montezemolo
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      10-06-2020, 08:25 AM   #278
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[QUOTE=M5theonlyone;26766772]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
This is from RaceCar Engineering 6 years ago in 2014 regarding Cosworth and their PU. Please notice the stated timeline for the Power Units. Mercedes had no advantage. It was all known to any interested party. Including VW who insisted on an I4 ICE configuration which is relevant to their product line. The ICE configuration was changed to V-6 in 2011 AFTER VW decided to stay away from Formula One, once again.

Mercedes simply did a better job than everyone else. Good on them and shame on everyone else. You don't punish the valedictorian of the class because there are 5 slapdicks who can't learn their schoolwork.

*So just all because VW didn't want to continue...with what engine the V8? FIA changed it in a flash to V6 hybrid.How convenient.
Then how come Lauda told Montemezollo in confidence that Merc were ALREADY WORKING on a hybrid V6 way back in 2007 as I have already written.
Source?
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      10-06-2020, 09:58 AM   #279
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[QUOTE=MKSixer;26767220]
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post

Source?
Ok,go to Grandprix247 Report 1 February 2017
or punch in Montezemolo:Mercedes worked on their engine since 2007
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      10-06-2020, 11:00 AM   #280
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[QUOTE=M5theonlyone;26767466]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post

Ok,go to Grandprix247 Report 1 February 2017
or punch in Montezemolo:Mercedes worked on their engine since 2007
Montezemolo making excuses for the lack of performance from Ferrari isn't a credible source. Sorry...this is typical Ferrari excuse making.

The FACTS are that the proposed rules were for an I4 turbo hybrid configuration which was dropped when VW decided to stay out of Formula One. This can be verified in the FIA notes about the entire time period.

Luca Cordero di Montezemolo is NOT a credible source.
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