[Jason]

BIMMERPOST NEWS

The new BMW i3 (94 Ah) Wins 2017 World Urban Car Award

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Woodcliff Lake, N.J. – April 12, 2017… The new BMW i3 (94 Ah), today received the inaugural winner of the 2017 World Urban Car award at the New York International Auto Show.

“We are delighted and honored that the BMW i3 has been recognized as the World Urban Car of the Year,” said Ludwig Willisch, Head of BMW Group Region Americas. “This award highlights BMW Group’s commitment to sustainable mobility through BMW’s first all-electric vehicle made primarily of carbon fiber. The design brief for the BMW i3 was to create a Mega City Vehicle for the cities of the future. Today, the new 2017 BMW i3 (94 Ah) provides more range paired with a high-level of dynamic performance, making it the perfect urban vehicle for people around the world.”

Launched in 2014, the born electric BMW i3 represents a new era of electro mobility offering a visionary design, a ground-breaking vehicle architecture, dynamic performance and innovative connectivity. No other car represents such a holistic approach to sustainability throughout the value chain.

World Car vice-chairman, Mike Rutherford, commented, “It's an award whose time has come. Everyday cars in many - perhaps most - parts of the world will have to become smaller if road and parking space is to be found for them in increasingly packed towns and cities whose populations are swelling annually. This year's winner in our inaugural World Urban Car category proves that these small vehicles don't have to be cheap, undesirable and unpleasant to drive. Quite the opposite. It is among the best value-for-money products on the market”.

The new 2017 BMW i3 (94 Ah) offers 50% increased battery capacity (33 kWh) thanks to the higher energy density of the lithium ion cells. The BMW i team worked to ensure that the battery dimensions remain unchanged while still offering a significant range increase. The driving performance figures of the 170 hp AC synchronous electric motor remain virtually unchanged. The motor propels the BMW i3 from 0 to 60 mph in just over 7 seconds making the BMW i3 the sportiest and most efficient electric vehicle in the premium segment. With the introduction of the BMW i3 (94 Ah), BMW i now also offers a new BMW Home Charger Connect, a residential charging station designed for comfortable and fast home charging featuring additional connected functions.

[Eau_Rouge111]

I just wish BMW would build an electric car that had a range that one has in a fuel powered car...combination of battery and gas range extender etc as even people who live in urban environments still want to take a road trip once in a while.

The old i3 had a 9 liter gas range extender tank? Gives one another 100km of range?? That's not enough. I hope they fixed it on this version

[135iUSN]

I've made 3 trips at about 650 each thus far. A little inconvenient filling the Rex every 80 miles or so haha.

I might lease again as I'm up in October or extend until the LCI hits just around the corner (i think)

[CntryClub007]

http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/04/10/st...tesla-model-s/

I think the BMW i3 is incredibly intriguing, and I would love to pick one up to replace my F30 if there are still incredible lease incentives which offer 16-18K miles per year...thinking like $300 / month, I might be smoking crack, never looked into these.

I'm the only individual in my car, ever, and I've quickly realized I don't necessarily need an F30 fro my daily commute to work. Would rather turn it into cash and do a cheap lease payment on some newer tech.

Tempting!

[ppDoc]

I bet you the award was not based on looks.

[ppDoc]

Pls delete. Double post by mistake

[ppDoc]

Pls delete. Triple post by mistake

[-c-]

Originally Posted by ppDoc

I bet you the award was not based on looks.

: Just knew one of these comments where coming!!!!

Get the hell over it! That remark is like beating a dead horse. Yea we know some people hate change and something new and different. Remember it wasn't long ago that BMW's new design styling change which was the flame surfacing that is now common place was hated when it was shown.

Looks are subjective and I personally think it looks pretty cool, walked out and saw one in the Home Depot parking lot and it made every other car in the parking lot look dated and old.

Theirs my subjective view.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by ppDoc

I bet you the award was not based on looks.

: Just knew one of these comments where coming!!!!

Get the hell over it! That remark is like beating a dead horse. Yea we know some people hate change and something new and different. Remember it wasn't long ago that BMW's new design styling change which was the flame surfacing that is now common place was hated when it was shown.

Looks are subjective and I personally think it looks pretty cool, walked out and saw one in the Home Depot parking lot and it made every other car in the parking lot look dated and old.

Theirs my subjective view.

[raysspl]

Not surprised to hear but it can also use 250 mile range battery pack anytime now...

[doccyber]

Originally Posted by ppDoc

I bet you the award was not based on looks.

Too bad

[Efthreeoh]

Using the weight increase data and the range increase data between the i3 22 (60Ah) kWh and the i3 33 kWh (94 Ah) models and scaling it up to the 60kWh Chevy bolt (equivalent battery capacity) the i3 "60kWh" version weighs only 204 pounds less than the Bolt and gets a 194 mile range vs. the Bolt's 238.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Using the weight increase data and the range increase data between the i3 22 (60Ah) kWh and the i3 33 kWh (94 Ah) models and scaling it up to the 60kWh Chevy bolt (equivalent battery capacity) the i3 "60kWh" version weighs only 204 pounds less than the Bolt and gets a 194 mile range vs. the Bolt's 238.

I am not sure where weight came into the discussion, but since it has been mentioned, here is the manufacturers' data for weight and range:
........car..........weight........range...
i3-BEV 60Ah : 2,886 lbs .. 84 miles
i3-BEV 94Ah : 2,961 lbs 114 miles
i3-REX 94Ah : 3,234 lbs 180 miles
Chevy Bolt....: 3,563 lbs 238 miles

As cheap as Bolt is, I'm not least bit tempted to drive a Chevy.

Tesla Model 3, on the other hand, temptation is thy name....
... and I really don't care what its weight is going to be (range is north of 215 miles).

a

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I am not sure where weight came into the discussion, but since it has been mentioned, here is the manufacturers' data for weight and range:
........car..........weight........range...
i3-BEV 60Ah : 2,886 lbs .. 84 miles
i3-BEV 94Ah : 2,961 lbs 114 miles
i3-REX 94Ah : 3,234 lbs 180 miles
Chevy Bolt....: 3,563 lbs 238 miles

As cheap as Bolt is, I'm not least bit tempted to drive a Chevy.

Tesla Model 3, on the other hand, temptation is thy name....
... and I really don't care what its weight is going to be (range is north of 215 miles).

a

You realize your data show that the Bolt has better range per pound of car weight than the i3 in BEV either version. I took the change in weight and range between the two versions of the i3 and extrapolated it to a 60 kWh i3, and it still loses to the Bolt. The Bolt is 10 cubic feet bigger in passenger/cargo space and is faster to 60 than the i3.

i3-BEV 60Ah : 2,886 lbs .. 84 miles.... 29.1 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
i3-BEV 94Ah : 2,961 lbs 114 miles.... 38.5 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
i3-REX 324Ah: 3,234 lbs 180 miles..... 55.6 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
i3-BEV 171Ah: 3,359 lbs 194 miles.... 59.9 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight (if there were a 60 kWh i3)
Chevy Bolt.. : 3,563 lbs 238 miles..... 66.8 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight

And somehow GM managed to not need carbon fiber...

I'm not in least bit temped to drive an i3. I've driven both cars. The Bolt is the superior engineered vehicle despite its lack of Eucalyptus wood and hemp door panels.

And if we compare just the two REX's from BMW and GM...

i3-REX 324Ah: 3,234 lbs 180 miles..... 55.6 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
GM Volt 318Ah: 3,533 lbs 420 miles..... 118.5 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight

[JasH]

Just to add to the weight discussion, UK original i3 BEV is 1,195kg. Which is what I have. USA i3 is heavier btw.

Why does weight matter? Not just for range, but much more for handling and acceleration

Bolt is a tub of lard by comparison

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by JasH

Just to add to the weight discussion, UK original i3 BEV is 1,195kg. Which is what I have. USA i3 is heavier btw.

Why does weight matter? Not just for range, but much more for handling and acceleration

Bolt is a tub of lard by comparison

It weighs less than some E90 models and is slightly larger by volumetric measurements. And as I pointed out, the virtual i3 with an equivalent capacity 60kWh battery weighs just 204 pounds less than the Bolt, meanwhile the Bolt is larger in passenger/cargo volume than the i3 by 10 cubic feet and has better range. The bolt has almost 3 times the range of your i3 and is faster to 60 MPH.

And regarding sustainability, the Bolt is made of aluminum and steel, both highly recyclable materials. The i3 uses carbon fiber for the body shell, which is not really recyclable.

And the i3 REX is a pretty much a laughable design when compared to the Chevrolet Volt.

Sorry, but BMW loses in this engineering competition.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

You realize your data show that the Bolt has better range per pound of car weight than the i3 in BEV either version.

Dude, you don't realize I'm not pimping any particular car here, just learning from data.

If you want to start range per pound derby (not sure why), then all will pail next to Tesla Model S.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I took the change in weight and range between the two versions of the i3 and extrapolated it to a 60 kWh i3, and it still loses to the Bolt. The Bolt is 10 cubic feet bigger in passenger/cargo space and is faster to 60 than the i3.

i3-BEV 60Ah : 2,886 lbs .. 84 miles.... 29.1 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
i3-BEV 94Ah : 2,961 lbs 114 miles.... 38.5 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
i3-REX 324Ah: 3,234 lbs 180 miles..... 55.6 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight
i3-BEV 171Ah: 3,359 lbs 194 miles.... 59.9 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight (if there were a 60 kWh i3)
Chevy Bolt.. : 3,563 lbs 238 miles..... 66.8 miles per 1,000 lbs car weight

+
Tesla Model S: 4,941 lbs 351 miles.... 71.0 miles to 1,000 lbs car

So, Model S embarrasses everyone else, because the key to range per pound is battery pack size, and Model S packs 100 kWh battery vs. 60 kWh for Bot vs. 33 kWh for i3.

Guess what - the larger the battery, the longer the range.
Larger battery requires longer chassis, which is why Model S comes on top.
Until someone else brings an even larger EV to market.
Amazing, I know.

What was your point anyway?

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm not in least bit temped to drive an i3. I've driven both cars. The Bolt is the superior engineered vehicle despite its lack of Eucalyptus wood and hemp door panels.

Thanks for spelling out your biases.

I take it you confuse engineering competency with battery size, right?

a

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Dude, you don't realize I'm not pimping any particular car here, just learning from data.

If you want to start range per pound derby (not sure why), then all will pail next to Tesla Model S.




+
Tesla Model S: 4,941 lbs 351 miles.... 71.0 miles to 1,000 lbs car

So, Model S embarrasses everyone else, because the key to range per pound is battery pack size, and Model S packs 100 kWh battery vs. 60 kWh for Bolt vs. 33 kWh for i3.

Guess what - the larger the battery, the longer the range.
Larger battery requires longer chassis, which is why Model S comes on top.
Until someone else brings an even larger EV to market.
Amazing, I know.

What was your point anyway?




Thanks for spelling out your biases.

I take it you confuse engineering competency with battery size, right?

a

The Tesla S with 351 mile range is $120,000 car (I don't think it is available anymore - it's not on Tesla's Model S order page). But if one were to look at the Model S at the 60kWh battery (yes, I know it's just a 75kWh battery scaled back to 60kWh via software) it only gets 215 miles as range. The i3 and Bolt are in the same size class and price range. We'll see what the Tesla 3 brings when it gets here (note: the Tesla S is just 1 cubic foot larger than the Bolt in passenger space. The Bolt is more efficient than the Tesla S despite the nearly identical passenger space capacity.

I'm comparing the engineering competency between BMW and GM not battery size. GM was able to make the Bolt 10 cubic feet larger in passenger space and get better range with a theoretical 204 weight gain over a similarly sized battery capacity i3 (based on a scale-up of the 33kWh battery in the 94Ah i3 from the 22kWh version) and gets better range out of it.

My point is BMW gets engineering accolades and awards (always self-promoted here on Bimmer Post) that in my view, it doesn't deserve. And trust me, I'm probably a bigger fan of BMW than most people. I have 3 operating in my fleet currently and I had an E30 for 18 years (since it was new). My combined mileage of all 4 cars is north of 780,000.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The Tesla S with 351 mile range is $120,000 car (I don't think it is available anymore - it's not on Tesla's Model S order page). But if one were to look at the Model S at the 60kWh battery (yes, I know it's just a 75kWh battery scaled back to 60kWh via software) it only gets 215 miles as range. The i3 and Bolt are in the same size class and price range. We'll see what the Tesla 3 brings when it gets here (note: the Tesla S is just 1 cubic foot larger than the Bolt in passenger *******. The Bolt is more efficient than the Tesla S despite the nearly identical passenger space capacity.

I'm comparing the engineering competency between BMW and GM not battery size. GM was able to make the Bolt 10 cubic feet larger in passenger space and get better range with a theoretical 204 weight gain over a similarly sized battery capacity i3 (based on a scale-up of the 33kWh battery in the 94Ah i3 from the 22kWh version) and gets better range out of it.

My point is BMW gets engineering accolades and awards (always self-promoted here on Bimmer Post) that in my view, it doesn't deserve. And trust me, I'm probably a bigger fan of BMW than most people. I have 3 operating in my fleet currently and I had an E30 for 18 years (since it was new). My combined mileage of all 4 cars is north of 780,000.

I love it when the public spouts off their opinions and what they think they know, just because the bolt is the same size as the i3 and gets more miles you think GM is better at designing the car. Theirs so much that goes into designing a car it's mind blowing.

Mileage mileage mileage, don't give a rats patoot about it. Why does an ev with more milage make it better! The car I have gets me everywhere I need and charges quickly, perfect for me. Yes they make the same model with double the milage but don't need it. Does it make it better ? If mileage is important to you then yes, for me no!

Unless you worked on the i3 during development or the bolt everything said is just speculation and full of what you think went on.

I don't care if the bolt was made of unicorn shit ! It's crap by association of years of crap that GM has designed and fed down people's throat! Yea I'm biased but it will be a cold day in hell before you find me buying a GM product!

Had an 80k dollar Yukon Denali as a rental! It was crap ! Fit and finish, detail, engine refinement, infotainment design! You name it.
Embarrassing!!!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by -c-

I love it when the public spouts off their opinions and what they think they know, just because the bolt is the same size as the i3 and gets more miles you think GM is better at designing the car. Theirs so much that goes into designing a car it's mind blowing.

Mileage mileage mileage, don't give a rats patoot about it. Why does an ev with more milage make it better! The car I have gets me everywhere I need and charges quickly, perfect for me. Yes they make the same model with double the milage but don't need it. Does it make it better ? If mileage is important to you then yes, for me no!

Unless you worked on the i3 during development or the bolt everything said is just speculation and full of what you think went on.

I don't care if the bolt was made of unicorn shit ! It's crap by association of years of crap that GM has designed and fed down people's throat! Yea I'm biased but it will be a cold day in hell before you find me buying a GM product!

Had an 80k dollar Yukon Denali as a rental! It was crap ! Fit and finish, detail, engine refinement, infotainment design! You name it.
Embarrassing!!!

LOL - I was a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers during college when I was studying industrial engineering. I worked at an aerospace manufacturing plant (Lockheed Martin) for 5 years as an equipment planning engineer. I've been responsible for the specification, purchase and installation of million-plus-dollar machining centers, and down to electric-linear-bearing coordinate measuring machines. I'm still in the engineering/product development field to this day, yet no longer in an engineering capacity. I've been studying automotive design and manufacturing for most of my life as my hobby of interest. Yeah, I know quite a bit about automotive design and manufacturing; so you can drop that argument technique now.

So EV range doesn't concern you, but EV range does concern EVERYONE else - LOL. That's why Tesla's get, as a minimum, 200 miles of range, it's why the new Tesla 3 supposedly will be rated at 215 miles. It's why GM engineered the Bolt to be bigger than the i3 with nearly triple the range of the 60Ah version. It's why BMW recently increased the capacity of the i3 battery to 33kWh. It's why there is the term "range anxiety". It's why everyone in the industry recognizes that a $30,000 EV with 200 miles of range per charge is the sweet spot that should make EV sales go above the measly 1% of the market they are at currently. An EV with more range makes it more salable to a larger section of the automotive marketplace. But your argument is that range doesn't matter to you, so it shouldn't matter to anyone else. What a fucking joke of a statement that is.

And I'll have to go on the Denali forums and see how many Denali transfercases fail because the tires are 3/32 different in tread depth from each other. May I ask how an all-wheel-drive X5 can wear tires so unevenly to the point that if you don't replace all four tires at the same time, the tranfercase breaks? It must be all those little angels flying around X5's wheels are really not doing their jobs very effectively...

And apparently you are the only automotive expert on earth that doesn't recognize the Chevrolet Small Block V8 as one of the greatest (Iconic - that means it's an icon...) engines produced of all time. Please go on, I find this quite entertaining.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

LOL - I was a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers during college when I was studying industrial engineering. I worked at an aerospace manufacturing plant (Lockheed Martin) for 5 years as an equipment planning engineer. I've been responsible for the specification, purchase and installation of million-plus-dollar machining centers, and down to electric-linear-bearing coordinate measuring machines. I'm still in the engineering/product development field to this day, yet no longer in an engineering capacity. I've been studying automotive design and manufacturing for most of my life as my hobby of interest. Yeah, I know quite a bit about automotive design and manufacturing; so you can drop that argument technique now.

So EV range doesn't concern you, but EV range does concern EVERYONE else - LOL. That's why Tesla's get, as a minimum, 200 miles of range, it's why the new Tesla 3 supposedly will be rated at 215 miles. It's why GM engineered the Bolt to be bigger than the i3 with nearly triple the range of the 60Ah version. It's why BMW recently increased the capacity of the i3 battery to 33kWh. It's why there is the term "range anxiety". It's why everyone in the industry recognizes that a $30,000 EV with 200 miles of range per charge is the sweet spot that should make EV sales go above the measly 1% of the market they are at currently. An EV with more range makes it more salable to a larger section of the automotive marketplace. But your argument is that range doesn't matter to you, so it shouldn't matter to anyone else. What a fucking joke of a statement that is.

And I'll have to go on the Denali forums and see how many Denali transfercases fail because the tires are 3/32 different in tread depth from each other. May I ask how an all-wheel-drive X5 can wear tires so unevenly to the point that if you don't replace all four tires at the same time, the tranfercase breaks? It must be all those little angels flying around X5's wheels are really not doing their jobs very effectively...

And apparently you are the only automotive expert on earth that doesn't recognize the Chevrolet Small Block V8 as one of the greatest (Iconic - that means it's an icon...) engines produced of all time. Please go on, I find this quite entertaining.

Don't care ! As I said don't care if you designed rockets you weren't on the project of either GM, Tesla or BMW, so you know nothing of why they made the decisions they made, just stating simple facts. But GM still sucks (My opinion) and the bolt looks stupid (My Opinion)....

More of a mopar fan anyway....

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by -c-

Don't care ! As I said don't care if you designed rockets you weren't on the project of either GM, Tesla or BMW, so you know nothing of why they made the decisions they made, just stating simple facts. But GM still sucks (My opinion) and the bolt looks stupid (My Opinion)....

More of a mopar fan anyway....

This is getting fun!

So the topic of this thread is the i3 wins the inaugural 2017 World Urban Car award. From the WCA website: "The World Car Awards (WCA) is a program initiated by, organized by, and conducted by automotive journalists from all over the world. From the outset in 2004, those of us involved in making it a reality have done so in the context of one over-riding priority. We are dedicated to ensuring that it is carried out with the utmost objectivity, credibility, and integrity.

The WCA are administered by a not-for-profit association, under the guidance of a Steering Committee of distinguished automotive journalists from Asia, Europe, and North America. In that way, it draws on the experience and expertise already developed by various other award programs throughout the world.

It is intended to complement, not compete with existing national and regional COTY awards, which are inherently different in scope. By its nature, WCOTY includes some vehicles that may be unavailable in individual regions, and excludes others whose availability may be limited to those regions.

So the award is handed out by automotive journalists, whose job it is to critique automobiles, not design and build them. I'd bet I know more about car design and manufacturing then most of the automotive journalists on that stupid WCA voting board. All of them "weren't on the project of either GM, Tesla or BMW" so they "know nothing of why they (GM, Tesla, BMW) made the decisions they made". So it took the i3 three model years to finally win an award.

But just to be fair, the Bolt, it's first time out, won the prestigious Motor Trend "Car of the Year Award" for 2017. The past winners of MT's Car of the Year? Chevrolet Volt (2011), Passat (2012), Tesla S (2013), Cadillac CTS (2014), VW Golf (2015), and Chevrolet Camaro (2016). The i3 came out as a MY 2014 vehicle and wasn't even a contender in 2014 (even though the Tesla and Chinese CODA EVs were included the year before). It was in the 2015 MT COTY Award group of cars where it didn't even compete as a contender (i.e. didn't even make the cut - LOL), let alone a finalist. MT says of the i3 "In a 2014 First Drive, we said that the i3 doesn’t have the same fun-to-drive DNA as other vehicles produced by BMW. The car’s handling was sloppy and the front tires didn’t have much grip especially when accelerating. Where the i3 really shines is in its interior. Breaking away from the usual dark and austere interiors of most BMWs, the i3 features a curvy dashboard design, unique eco-friendly seat materials, a free standing display, and a two-spoke steering wheel. MT says of the Bolt, "Perhaps the most impressive thing about the Bolt EV is there are no caveats, no “for an electric car” qualifiers needed in any discussion. It is, simply, a world-class small car, and that’s before you factor in the benefits inherent in the smoothness, silence, and instant-on torque provided by the electric motor. The ride is firm and sporty, but transmitted road noise is very well damped. The steering has slightly artificial weighting, but brake feel is natural, and once you learn to use the higher regenerative braking modes, you can pretty much drive all the time without touching the friction brakes at all.

But we can magazine bench race all day if you want. However, Motor Trend has come to the same conclusion I have, that the Bolt is the better car between the i3 and the Bolt because its larger inside and offers twice the range as the i3.

Data my friend... data.