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      08-15-2016, 02:38 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
Look at the POS Model X for all the proof you need.
I didn't realize my Model X was a "POS"... I'm so glad I read this!

My daily experience with my Model X has obviously all been a sham. I bought a piece of junk and I've been so ignorantly pleased with it. Now I've been schooled for sure. If only I didn't actually own one. Maybe thats what keeping me from realizing what a piece of crap it is. I shouldn't let ownership get in the way of an educated opinion. I'm such an idiot. Now I'm so sad.

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      08-15-2016, 02:57 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
How many Tesla vehicles have you actually owned and driven on a daily basis?

I have a Tesla Model X P90D (ludicrous) and the technology is far more advanced than anything in any of my current or past BMW's (M6, M4, X6M)... So exactly what technology do you think any BMW is "light years ahead" with? I can make you a very long list of advanced Tech in my MX, but lets see what you got - shall we?

...and as far as materials, design, and build quality goes, I would definitely put Tesla in the same category as BMW.

...and yes, My Model X P90DL is by far the quickest car in my garage! 3.2 secs 0-60 in the family SUV! It'll suck the blood out of the back of your eyeballs when you launch it. ...with groceries in the back. ...and 250 miles of range. The i8 is only good for 4.2 seconds and definitely no groceries...

Tesla has been building cars for years that BMW should have produced in the first place. The i8 is totally impractical and wont even keep up with either the Tesla Model S or X. The i3 has little or no useful range and is not particularly comfortable to drive (albeit a bit more practical).

I love BMW's (I really do), but they simply don't make a compelling or competitive (on any level) EV at the moment... Too little, too late.

Maybe there's hope in the future though... (That's what led me to check in on this thread...)
I don't need to own a Telsa to know what they're all about. Its a big battery in a big car with big electric motors at each of the wheels. Is that really technology advancing itself? Or did they take a simple formula to build an electric car and sell the hype?

The Model X has windshield issues and the rear doors can't close properly. These issues have been swept under the rug by many "loyalist" owners but we know these are quality control points that were missed or neglected to be addressed for the launch for beta testers, I mean early adopters. I'm sure they'll be fixed eventually but those are basic functions of car in having a proper windshield to see out of and doors that close correctly.

Real technology that BMW is advancing is in the chassis build and design utilizing new materials like CFRP. What is the chassis of any Tesla made out of? Do people think of technology as just having a big touch screen LCD for the center stack? Is that really "advanced"? Is getting software updates daily b/c the car has lots of bugs really advanced? Or is it "advanced" b/c EV motors are inherently able to produce 100% instant torque/power? All EVs share this characteristic and if you a big enough electric motor with a high capacity battery, you too will win every stop light drag race. Or is advancing technology rethinking how to build lighter and stronger cars that require the use of a smaller battery so that the car has better driving dynamics and range?

No offense but Tesla owners need to realize you have 1st/2nd gen prototype cars and although they are using the latest in EV tech, they have many compromises. I think the route BMW took with the i3 and i8 shows that they acknowledged that the battery tech isn't there yet and the compromise was to have REx and hybrid drive technology so that you never get stranded. I love EVs and know they are the future, but until these compromises get worked out and battery/charging technology catches up, they are far from being perfect.
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      08-15-2016, 02:58 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
I didn't realize my Model X was a "POS"... I'm so glad I read this!

My daily experience with my Model X has obviously all been a sham. I bought a piece of junk and I've been so ignorantly pleased with it. Now I've been schooled for sure. If only I didn't actually own one. Maybe thats what keeping me from realizing what a piece of crap it is. I shouldn't let ownership get in the way of an educated opinion. I'm such an idiot. Now I'm so sad.

Clearly you are taking this personal. I am done
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      08-15-2016, 03:00 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by e92miami View Post
Right, so I guess I'm wrong and so is Motor Trend, Road & Track and Car and Driver writers along with most people in the car industry. But hey, you called me an idiot so YOU must be right...
It was late and I shouldn't have called you an idiot. But to blatantly say Tesla has a monopoly on EV tech is wrong. They aren't doing anything special (yet).
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      08-15-2016, 03:56 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
It was late and I shouldn't have called you an idiot. But to blatantly say Tesla has a monopoly on EV tech is wrong. They aren't doing anything special (yet).
Anything special?
Here are a few:
It's the quickest family sedan and SUV on the planet
It has the longest range of all EVs
It is the most practical family car (ehem... EV) on the market
It is the only EV that can tow
It is the only EV that can be your only car in the household
It is the only EV you can take cross country and pay zero for charging, which is fastest to date
New OS that make your car newer every day, while you're asleep
Autopilot!!!! Absolutely love this
Autopark and summon
It is the only EV with AWD, also happen to be my best winter car

I can continue for miles with this, but there is no sense of doing this, You are drinking BMW koolaid

P.S. Re: carbon fiber. I dont wanna be a beta on this "tech". I think i'll stick with aluminum, as i dont (yet) feel safe to put my 3 kids in CFRP car
They broke the machine when tested roof strength of Tesla
They couldn't flip it
It broke their scoring system

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      08-15-2016, 04:14 PM   #50
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I really don't get the Tesla vs i8 comparisons. On any racetrack, I have no doubt that the i8 would *crush* any Tesla, even in a short sprint race. Ok, so maybe you don't get to go racing, but then ask yourself: Which car would you want for that nice drive on a twisty mountain road? The Tesla is a great car, but it wins mainly in a straight line, and even then only when accelerating, not decelerating.

The two cars are just completely different. One is a courageous attempt to redefine the family sedan, and the other is a courageous attempt to redefine the sports car. To say that a family sedan is superior to a sports car, or vice versa, seems, well, strange to me.
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      08-15-2016, 04:25 PM   #51
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Tesla and BMW are both good at things in their own right. Competition drives innovation so I'm glad they're both at it. Truce now peeps.

I really hope the next i8 is what the OP says
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      08-15-2016, 04:57 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
What an asinine and ignorant comment. BMW is light years ahead of Tesla in terms of automotive build quality and technology. d.
How many Tesla vehicles have you actually owned and driven on a daily basis?

I have a Tesla Model X P90D (ludicrous) and the technology is far more advanced than anything in any of my current or past BMW's (M6, M4, X6M)... So exactly what technology do you think any BMW is "light years ahead" with? I can make you a very long list of advanced Tech in my MX, but lets see what you got - shall we?

...and as far as materials, design, and build quality goes, I would definitely put Tesla in the same category as BMW.

...and yes, My Model X P90DL is by far the quickest car in my garage! 3.2 secs 0-60 in the family SUV! It'll suck the blood out of the back of your eyeballs when you launch it. ...with groceries in the back. ...and 250 miles of range. The i8 is only good for 4.2 seconds and definitely no groceries...

Tesla has been building cars for years that BMW should have produced in the first place. The i8 is totally impractical and wont even keep up with either the Tesla Model S or X. The i3 has little or no useful range and is not particularly comfortable to drive (albeit a bit more practical).

I love BMW's (I really do), but they simply don't make a compelling or competitive (on any level) EV at the moment... Too little, too late.

Maybe there's hope in the future though... (That's what led me to check in on this thread...)
I have been to a Research and Design even in DC where they had all the EV cars on the market. Saw full cut away views of all cars and then got to dissect all materials used in them. Finally tested all the cars on a track with real world emergency situations (I would never put my family in a tesla) it failed miserably in all test! And for those that think that all the big magazines car and driver Moyer trend etc are real representations of what cars are just have no clue. All of these company's are paid off by the manufactures. I have witnessed this my self with my own eyes. BMW i3 excelled in all aspects, exept for range and that is no longer an issue.
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      08-15-2016, 05:17 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
I don't need to own a Telsa to know what they're all about. Its a big battery in a big car with big electric motors at each of the wheels. Is that really technology advancing itself? Or did they take a simple formula to build an electric car and sell the hype?

The Model X has windshield issues and the rear doors can't close properly. These issues have been swept under the rug by many "loyalist" owners but we know these are quality control points that were missed or neglected to be addressed for the launch for beta testers, I mean early adopters. I'm sure they'll be fixed eventually but those are basic functions of car in having a proper windshield to see out of and doors that close correctly.
...
Wow! Why are there so many EV haters with no real understanding of what these cars are about. They just keep regurgitating all the crap they hear...

- I have no idea of what the "Windshield Issues" are that you mention... My Model X has no issues with the windshield. I don't know what you are referring to at all.

- My Falcon Wing Doors close just fine thank you.

Another poster made a nice list of high tech advancements that the Tesla's have made (Autopilot, nightly updates, etc) so I'm not going to repeat all that. However, there are MANY little things that have gone into the design and intelligence of the Tesla automobiles - that could have been put into any car - if the manufacturer's just had enough forethought.

Take for instance, that the car is designed to open the garage door as you roll into your driveway (because the GPS and the garage door openers are all integrated by the on-board computer - they are not independent entities)... ...or that the car automatically closes the garage door as it leaves the bay. ...or that the suspension is automatically adjusted based on prior history and GPS location. ...or that the car can be summoned from the garage at which point it opens the door, drives itself out, opens the car door, and then closes the garage door. ...or that the car can be similarly parked into the garage. ...or that the car can both park/unpark itself along a street (parallel) or in a parking lot (aligned), even without a driver in the car if that should be desired. That's because Tesla has the ability to integrate every function in the car. The Garage door openers are NOT completely isolated from the GPS which is not completely isolated from the suspension which is not isolated from the steering which is not isolated from the cameras and clearance sensors. Lots of examples of stuff like this. All because Tesla designed the car out of the box. All because nothing was pre-conceived.

You don't own one. You don't have any idea of what your talking about. You only know what you read or what is fed to you by your chosen media outlet.

Tesla owners typically love their cars because they are so intelligent (or intelligently programmed). New owners (in particular) generally spend a lot of time being impressed with how "smart" the cars are. "How come nobody thought about this until now?" kinda smarts. It takes time to appreciate all the intelligence programmed into these vehicles. We've had ours for a couple of months now and she still surprises us from time to time. I know- you know better - cause you read some stuff from somewhere...

...and they have the ability to get meaningfully smarter every night (without a trip to the dealer). Something which can not likely be said about the poster to whom this response is directed...
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      08-15-2016, 06:46 PM   #54
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Hey peeps with i8's: this is what it's like on the other bimmerpost forums
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      08-15-2016, 08:33 PM   #55
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Wow this thread totally went into the toilet with all the back and forth Tesla vs BMWi. They are both great cars in their own right, that have their own place in the market today and the future. The better Tesla gets, the more they motivate BMWi to push their boundaries to do better. The better BMWi gets the more they inspire Tesla to get more creative. And guess who benefits the most from this? Us! The consumers.

So those in the Tesla camp and those in the BMWi camp, you don't have to defend anything. But we can enjoy the amazing machines that they build for us?

Just sayin!
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      08-15-2016, 09:00 PM   #56
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I wonder if this will mean the car gets a real tire and not those skinny econo things
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      08-15-2016, 09:15 PM   #57
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I'm sorry but I would not buy the I8 if it was 30K! I rode in my friends and I thought I was in a golf cart! Suppose I'm old school, I have had 10 BMW since '96, incl 3 M3, M Roadster and Z4 35is. My current BMW is 2014 X5 35i.

I just bought a Shelby GT 350, No pumped in noise, just amazing V8 at 8250 rpm! And for 58K!
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      08-16-2016, 01:25 AM   #58
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I'm a huge BMW fan and on my third model. Haven't owned another brand since I joined the family. I certainly love my 335i and all the work I've put into making it faster...

Having said that, I don't ride BMWs dick so hard that I can't acknowledge another great platform. The Tesla bashing boggles my mind. Truly advancing the auto industry in a variety of ways, many of which have already been mentioned. The entire automotive world was behind the power curve, and is now playing catch-up. They are true pioneers, that go full blast into uncharted territory (as do all of Elon Musk's ventures).

Hey BMW fans, other companies do cool shit. Your BMW (mine is named Veronica) won't crash you into a tree if you admire other cars.

Back to the original topic...an all electric i8 is awesome for many reason especially if it has the power mentioned. All electric is the future, and the day pumping gas becomes bygone is sooner than many think.
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      08-16-2016, 08:43 AM   #59
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Yes, I'm a BMW fan. This is one of the reasons I participate in these forums. But I also love my Tesla. However, I'm also hopeful for new advancements in the BMWi lineup. That, in fact, is what brought me to this particular thread in the first place...

BMW and Tesla are both great car brands. Car guys are car guys. If you are a true car lover, then you can appreciate cool features and accomplishments in any car brand. Real car guys don't run around bashing competitive brands just because its not their favorite brand. Miustang owners should be able to appreciate the new Camaro's and Corvettes and BMW guys should be able to appreciate Tesla vehicles. That's not to say a competitive mindset is not healthy - its the mindless bashing, by fear-filled internet educated pundits which becomes so tiresome...

So why is Tesla winning in the EV market and not BMW?

My wife and I have been using an EV as our daily driver since 2012. We had a Chevy Volt and absolutely loved it. We ran it almost exclusively on battery. I think we only put 4 tanks of gas (7 gal/tank) in the car in the entire 4 years we owned it - and that was because the vehicle demanded we basically use up an old tank of gas once per year so it doesn't go bad.

Anyway, I looked at the i8 and the i3. I even had an i3 for a whole weekend. The i8 is totally impractical - and I have nothing against impractical cars - but if we replaced our EV, it had to be usable as a daily driver. The i8 simply doesn't fit this bill. Its hard to get in/out of, no room in the back, no where to put groceries, etc. It was never intended to be a general purpose daily driver. I believe this is why the i8 never took the market by storm - its a niche vehicle... ...albeit a really nice niche vehicle...

So we looked at the i3. It was pretty good tech wise but it really wasn't a step up from the Chevy Volt we already had! The range was pretty short for a pure EV, the price was higher than most, and it wasn't even as comfortable or as drivable as the Volt. The Volt was much more car like and comfortable and you could run it forever if you wanted to by just putting gas in it. BMW's i3 is not the most expensive EV, but there are lots of competitive options which are significantly cheaper. The i3, to us, wasn't a step up from what we were already driving and didn't really offer anything compelling among a sea of competitors... IMHO the i3 is a car positioned in the middle of nowhere in the EV market and really doesn't deliver any compelling functionality or performance... This is likely why sales haven't been stronger for this vehicle as well...

Then there was Tesla offing both the Model S and the Model X. These cars are everything the BMW's could have been. They offer great utility (The X will seat 7 adults and two trunk loads of luggage/groceries), long range (250 mi), awesome performance (3.2 0-60), and more advanced integrated technology than any car ever produced. Everything in the car is integrated via the on board computer - EVERYTHING! The computer can control the garage door openers, the interior lights, the suspension, has access to GPS info for geofencing, vehicle sensors, fwd vision cameras, etc, and is always connected to the Internet and online. ..and all this can get routinely and MEANINGFULLY updated overnight as you sleep via the persistent Internet connection. Sometimes we get updates on a weekly basis. New functions are added to the touch screen, the cars behavior is modified based on user feedback, etc. Tesla even delivered the original Autopilot functions to early owners via an over the air update. Ask yourself this question, when was the last time you brought your BMW in to a service center and had ONE of the many on-board computers updated? Do you even know or remember what change the firmware update made? Was it meaningful or useful?

Its quite likely that BMW will eventually catch up, but they are simply not there yet... I'm gonna keep watching (and hoping) though!
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      08-16-2016, 09:09 AM   #60
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The innovation here is not the hybrid/battery technology. It's not a BMW vs Tesla argument. What is innovative here is the lightweight carbon fiber with integrated plastics chassis and ability of his car to corner, handle and perform at the track like a supercar with tiny 215 tires up front and 245 in the rear. You will not understand this unless you have driven this car and other supercars and also have Motorsports/racing experience.

As I continue to spend more time in this car, the tech isn't wizardry at all (although the only other car that integrates the tech the same way is the Porsche 918) but the handling dynamics are. To me this car compares to the McLarens in that regard albeit as a hybrid, BMW needed to keep the weight very low by using a small battery up front and small engine in the rear. I'll be the first to admit the power is low. But at $140-Ish MSRP, the value for this price point is incredible.

The looks of the car are of course personal preference. But I don't think the next gen will look the same. If bmw plans to sell these in larger numbers, it will need a trunk and much better driver visibility which means the entire car must change.
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      08-16-2016, 12:32 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Its quite likely that BMW will eventually catch up, but they are simply not there yet... I'm gonna keep watching (and hoping) though!

BMW has caught up. 225xe, 330e, x5 eDrive, 740e, and more coming.

all electric may be the way of the future, but it's certainly not the way of the near future. batteries are expensive - they are expensive to replace, and they are expensive to carry around. in the meantime, gas is cheap, and there's absolutely zero range anxiety.

Tesla is not winning.
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      08-16-2016, 01:32 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by HHBruin View Post
BMW has caught up. 225xe, 330e, x5 eDrive, 740e, and more coming.

all electric may be the way of the future, but it's certainly not the way of the near future. batteries are expensive - they are expensive to replace, and they are expensive to carry around. in the meantime, gas is cheap, and there's absolutely zero range anxiety.

Tesla is not winning.
Definitely caught up with Prius.

Pumping out more varieties of overweight hybrids with diminished space/utility is a great achievement
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      08-16-2016, 01:43 PM   #63
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Definitely caught up with Prius.

Pumping out more varieties of overweight hybrids with diminished space/utility is a great achievement

prius = 3000 lbs
330e = 3800 lbs
model s = 5000 lbs

overweight?
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      08-16-2016, 02:24 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by SCBMW02 View Post
I'm sorry but I would not buy the I8 if it was 30K! I rode in my friends and I thought I was in a golf cart! Suppose I'm old school, I have had 10 BMW since '96, incl 3 M3, M Roadster and Z4 35is. My current BMW is 2014 X5 35i.

I just bought a Shelby GT 350, No pumped in noise, just amazing V8 at 8250 rpm! And for 58K!
Good for you, what is your point ? Old School.... start reading a bit mr. GT 350
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      08-16-2016, 02:57 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by HHBruin View Post
prius = 3000 lbs
330e = 3800 lbs
model s = 5000 lbs

overweight?
Sorry, overweight and underpowered
330e = 3900lb, but 330i is 3500lb
And that's with battery smaller than what's in my golf cart and reduced fuel tank

As for Model S, it's just like 7-er, S-class MB or other large sedans on the market.
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      08-16-2016, 03:26 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHBruin View Post
BMW has caught up. 225xe, 330e, x5 eDrive, 740e, and more coming.

all electric may be the way of the future, but it's certainly not the way of the near future. batteries are expensive - they are expensive to replace, and they are expensive to carry around. in the meantime, gas is cheap, and there's absolutely zero range anxiety.

Tesla is not winning.
I've been driving EV's now for over 4 years and the tech is here and now. I'm on my second EV and my wife and I use it as our daily driver. There is nothing to wait for, the technology has been here for a while and its only getting better. We had a Chevy Volt as our first EV and now drive a Tesla Model X. We have been very happy with both vehicles. Both worked really well, were very comfortable, were fun to drive, and are very economical. The technology is definitely here and now - and has been for some time! What exactly do you think we should be holding out for?

Batteries are expensive? Look at the price of EV's (they include the batteries you know). Five or Six models from major auto manufacturers in the $25K range row (and that's BEFORE the 7500 fed tax credit). So who cares what the batteries cost - they come with the car. Maybe the ash tray costs $10K - but its included in the price of the car...

Batteries are heavy? Engines are heavy... So are transmissions, full gas tanks, etc... The fact is that I get about 250 miles of range from my EV and I don't give a crap what the batteries weigh. My MX handles great and will easily outrun any BMW in production. So who cares what the batteries weigh? It just doesn't matter... The car handles, accelerates, and performs quite well!

Batteries are expensive to replace? I guess I don't know. I've never had to replace any of them. In fact I don't know of anybody who has. I guess engines are expensive to replace as well. Whats the point?

Batteries are expensive to carry around? What? It costs me about $8.25 to get a 230 mile charge on my Tesla (which travels with its batteries in place). How is that expensive?

Range Anxiety? I don't have range anxiety. I have a pretty good idea of what my daily driving requirements might be - even on a busy day. The 250 mile range of my Model X easily meets that. When I get home at night I simply plug it in.. If I need to take a long road trip I take a different vehicle... Poof! No anxiety! (Nice buzzword though)

I'm surprised no one mentioned the "EV charging infrastructure is simply not there yet" excuse either... Between 70 and 80% of EV owners (depending on brand and model) just DON'T USE use public charging stations. I've never used one! We just plug our cars in, like our cell phones, when we get home. All you need is an EV which can meet your daily driving requirements. Do you drive more than 250 miles on a busy day?

Where do people get this crap? Who is feeding you this BS? I don't understand why there are so many EV haters. Lots of folks were scared by cars when they started replacing the horse and buggy too...

Most families in the US are multi-car families. While an EV may not meet all your needs, it is likely that one of the two (or more) cars in your garage could be an EV. Most folks could probably have one ICE car for long road trips and then an EV for around town use. That's OK though. You don't have to buy one. No ones making you. I once had a girlfriend who claimed she would simply refuse to drive if gas ever went over 0.75 per gallon (yes, I'm THAT old) - so I guess she's been walking for quite some time now...

Its not an "either/or" relationship. My Model X lives quite happily in the same garage as my M4 and M6...
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