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      11-07-2019, 10:54 AM   #1431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP10 View Post
Agree 100% with the statement from your training partner.

In regards to your first blurb, establishing where that baseline is may be the difficult part. Going off the past weights that Rudi has given us, it seems like there is a large margin of muscle that can be gained. I'm trying to determine how I would go about it if I was in his shoes and knowing what I know now, and it really just boils down to the fact that you have a long road ahead of you. Hopefully you have already come to terms with this. I agree that a baseline needs to be determined, but that baseline form may be a little ways out.

Eat. Sleep. Rest (which going off some of your other posts in other threads you might need more of, but everyone is different as you can tell from RMTT who only sleeps for an hour or some shit haha).

I'm aware that one of your main concerns if keeping the excess fat off, but do me a favor and just stay away from the scales (both BMI and your normal) for a little while. Let the mirror do the talking. Weight is just a number, i've been through phases of looking like shit at 200lbs and looking like a greek god at 200 (obviously exaggerating, but nonetheless I hope you get the point).
Thank you sir. Appreciate the feedback. I'm fully aware of the road ahead but I look forward to the transformation. It's been a journey thus far.

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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
OR was it water? Generally I sweat a ton more with cardio vs resistance.
Considering my caloric deficiency, how accurately I account for every single calorie that I eat, the amount of cardio that I do and how I look in the mirror, I highly doubt that it's water. I sweat a ton during my cardio too, but I also drink a ton of water throughout the day.
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      11-07-2019, 11:09 AM   #1432
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Originally Posted by Now_Rudi View Post
Thank you sir. Appreciate the feedback. I'm fully aware of the road ahead but I look forward to the transformation. It's been a journey thus far.
Of course man! Happy to help in any way. We all have the same goal in one form or another. Just keep after it. it's all part of the process, and if you're anything like the rest of us maniacs it's just a way of life after awhile!
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      11-07-2019, 11:28 AM   #1433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Now_Rudi View Post
Thank you sir. Appreciate the feedback. I'm fully aware of the road ahead but I look forward to the transformation. It's been a journey thus far.



Considering my caloric deficiency, how accurately I account for every single calorie that I eat, the amount of cardio that I do and how I look in the mirror, I highly doubt that it's water. I sweat a ton during my cardio too, but I also drink a ton of water throughout the day.
Like JP10 stated...since you are still quite new to all of this as you have been mainly focused on weight loss....you have a huge advantage here to take.

Once you concentrate on building muscle, your gains are going to come along a lot more quickly than someone like me who has to carefully plan it out to try and gain maybe 5lbs a year of quality tissue.

I would find that baseline where your weight isn't moving. Cut cardio back to just being beneficial for heart health. When I do that, I only do about 10-15 minutes of HIIT cardio at the start of my workout.

It's just enough to benefit your cardiovascular system, and get you warmed up for the weights.

At that point, kill the weights in the gym. Don't worry about rest time between sets...wait until you are recovered and hit the next set. Pretty soon your body will get the message....then you let muscle growth dictate your diet. But milk every step in your calorie plateau for all you can. You will find that you actually will start losing some weight at previous calories that kept your body weight the same.

That is when you start slowly increasing things. Your body will change as it has no other choice but to adapt!
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      11-07-2019, 11:32 AM   #1434
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Originally Posted by Now_Rudi View Post
Thank you sir. Appreciate the feedback. I'm fully aware of the road ahead but I look forward to the transformation. It's been a journey thus far.



Considering my caloric deficiency, how accurately I account for every single calorie that I eat, the amount of cardio that I do and how I look in the mirror, I highly doubt that it's water. I sweat a ton during my cardio too, but I also drink a ton of water throughout the day.

Also...I find that water is more manipulated by the amount of carbs that you eat. For the most part anyways....I mean sodium intake and a few other things can affect it....but carbs are what replenishes glycogen..and that is what determines how much water you typically hold.

As long as you are eating the same amount of carbs everyday, most of the time water weight will take care of itself.
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      11-07-2019, 11:52 AM   #1435
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Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
Like JP10 stated...since you are still quite new to all of this as you have been mainly focused on weight loss....you have a huge advantage here to take.

Once you concentrate on building muscle, your gains are going to come along a lot more quickly than someone like me who has to carefully plan it out to try and gain maybe 5lbs a year of quality tissue.

I would find that baseline where your weight isn't moving. Cut cardio back to just being beneficial for heart health. When I do that, I only do about 10-15 minutes of HIIT cardio at the start of my workout.

It's just enough to benefit your cardiovascular system, and get you warmed up for the weights.

At that point, kill the weights in the gym. Don't worry about rest time between sets...wait until you are recovered and hit the next set. Pretty soon your body will get the message....then you let muscle growth dictate your diet. But milk every step in your calorie plateau for all you can. You will find that you actually will start losing some weight at previous calories that kept your body weight the same.

That is when you start slowly increasing things. Your body will change as it has no other choice but to adapt!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my game plan has been that once I hit 15% body fat to increase calories by 200/day. I figure at this rate, this should add close to 2 pounds of lean muscle/month. As my weight/muscle increases, I will need to adjust my calories. I figure if I do this slowly, it should keep me relatively lean as I start to bulk at a gradual rate. As of now, I'm 139 and 17.5% body fat; I know, crazy skewed numbers but I went too hard on the cardio in the beginning and realize that now. That's really high bf% for that low of weight. I'd like to get to around 150-155 @ around 10-12% BF by May or June.

Does this seem realistic?

Also, as for carbs, I don't neglect them, but I make better choices in what I eat. Rice with quinoa, wheat based stuff, etc. I've been more focused on trying to keep my fats low, which is tough, and stay around .8 - 1g of protein/pound of body weight.
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      11-07-2019, 12:10 PM   #1436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Now_Rudi View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my game plan has been that once I hit 15% body fat to increase calories by 200/day. I figure at this rate, this should add close to 2 pounds of lean muscle/month. As my weight/muscle increases, I will need to adjust my calories. I figure if I do this slowly, it should keep me relatively lean as I start to bulk at a gradual rate. As of now, I'm 139 and 17.5% body fat; I know, crazy skewed numbers but I went too hard on the cardio in the beginning and realize that now. That's really high bf% for that low of weight. I'd like to get to around 150-155 @ around 10-12% BF by May or June.

Does this seem realistic?

Also, as for carbs, I don't neglect them, but I make better choices in what I eat. Rice with quinoa, wheat based stuff, etc. I've been more focused on trying to keep my fats low, which is tough, and stay around .8 - 1g of protein/pound of body weight.
I think 200 calories a day is good. But I would find your baseline first. It may take you a few weeks, but I would first drop all of the cardio like you said...and see how your bodyweight is affected after a week at the calories you are eating. If you can get the scale to stop moving in one way or the other...then I would stay there and start pounding the weights with the intensity of how you approached your diet. Since you are not doing a ton of cardio...your body will recover better from the weight training.

The reason I say that is I still believe that you will be able to recomp your body on that amount of calories. You will build some muscle, and after awhile you will see the scale start to slowly trend downward again.

That is the time when you want to back-add 100-200 calories per day to keep the gym progress going and keep building muscle.

As for macro breakdowns...I found a 40% Protein, 40% Carb, and 20% fat ratio seems to work the best. When bulking...carbs are protein sparing so you can get away with less protein. But when I diet, I always up my protein and drop my carbs...more of a 50%, 30%, 20% ratio.

As for fat intake...that ratio puts me at about .5 grams of fat per lb of bodyweight. Healthy fats have been shown in numerous studies to be instrumental in testosterone production. Below is a PubMed excerpt:

The possible effect of dietary fat content and the ratio of polyunsaturated to saturated fatty acids (P/S-ratio) on serum sex hormones was studied in 30 healthy male volunteers. The customary diet of the subjects, which supplied 40% of energy as fat (mainly from animal sources, P/S-ratio 0.15) was replaced for a 6 weeks period by a practically isocaloric experimental diet containing significantly less fat (25% of energy) with a higher P/S-ratio (1.22) and other environmental factors were stabilized. Serum testosterone and 4-androstenedione decreased from 22.7 +/- 1.1 nmol/l to 19.3 +/- 1.2 nmol/l, (SEM, P less than 0.001) and from 4.6 +/- 0.2 nmol/l to 4.3 +/- 0.2 nmol/l (SEM, P less than 0.01), respectively. These changes were paralleled by a reduction in serum free (non-protein bound) testosterone (P less than 0.01) suggesting a possible change in biological activity. During the low fat period a significant negative correlation between serum prolactin and androgens was observed. All the changes in androgen levels were reversible. With the exception of a small but non-significant decrease in serum estradiol-17 beta, the other hormone parameters were practically unaffected by the dietary manipulation. Our results indicate that in men a decrease in dietary fat content and an increase in the degree of unsaturation of fatty acids reduces the serum concentrations of androstenedione, testosterone and free testosterone. The mechanism and importance of this phenomenon is discussed in the light of epidemiological and experimental data.
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      11-07-2019, 12:19 PM   #1437
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So just a quick update. I wasn't on much last week as I went to my PT.....and I just decided to take the whole week off from the gym. I was working on my car anyway. Plus I was starting to get burnt out on all the calories I was taking in.

So next week I start back in the gym...and with a new diet. Plan to cut calories back to around 3300 where it's comfortable, and get back to lifting heavy again.

Last night in my pj's...lol. I weighed 214lbs in this picture so I actually lost about 3lbs last week by skipping the gym! I put on a fair amount of fat too since my beach trip.
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      11-07-2019, 12:33 PM   #1438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Now_Rudi View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my game plan has been that once I hit 15% body fat to increase calories by 200/day. I figure at this rate, this should add close to 2 pounds of lean muscle/month. As my weight/muscle increases, I will need to adjust my calories. I figure if I do this slowly, it should keep me relatively lean as I start to bulk at a gradual rate. As of now, I'm 139 and 17.5% body fat; I know, crazy skewed numbers but I went too hard on the cardio in the beginning and realize that now. That's really high bf% for that low of weight. I'd like to get to around 150-155 @ around 10-12% BF by May or June.

Does this seem realistic?

Also, as for carbs, I don't neglect them, but I make better choices in what I eat. Rice with quinoa, wheat based stuff, etc. I've been more focused on trying to keep my fats low, which is tough, and stay around .8 - 1g of protein/pound of body weight.

Also...quick question. How are you measuring your body fat? I can tell you right now if you are relying on one of those hand-held or step-on "impedance" devices.....you aren't getting an accurate result.

You probably have a lower body fat than you think if using these devices. I have used the hand-held before at my monthly health screening by the wellness program at work..and it showed me at 16+%. Just that same morning in the gym...I was pinched by calipers and was 9.2%.

I can make those things change 5% by just drinking a glass of water and retesting.

You have mentioned before that you were seeing definition around your lower ab area...and that isn't happening at 17%. I bet you are closer to 14% than you suspect.
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      11-07-2019, 02:53 PM   #1439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
Also...quick question. How are you measuring your body fat? I can tell you right now if you are relying on one of those hand-held or step-on "impedance" devices.....you aren't getting an accurate result.

You probably have a lower body fat than you think if using these devices. I have used the hand-held before at my monthly health screening by the wellness program at work..and it showed me at 16+%. Just that same morning in the gym...I was pinched by calipers and was 9.2%.

I can make those things change 5% by just drinking a glass of water and retesting.

You have mentioned before that you were seeing definition around your lower ab area...and that isn't happening at 17%. I bet you are closer to 14% than you suspect.
Glad you touched on this. I thought the same thing last week, so I bought a caliper off amazon and tried it. I'm not sure if I'm doing it exactly as I should be, but based off the chart that came with the caliper, I was surprised to find that the scale is more accurate then I though. I still don't think that it's dead-on, but it was close to what the chart stated. I need to look online and watch some videos, to ensure that I'm using the caliper correctly and check it again tonight. Based off the mirror, they aren't very defined, but the top 4 are clearly visible and the "V" around the hip area is very visible. Funny thing is, that in early morning, in low light, I look facking ripped. The only jiggling area left on me is below the belly button. I had originally planned on cutting til around the 15th of this month, based off my math of calories digested/burned and 500 calorie/day deficiency based off the percentage of what I weighed, when I started this section of the process the first week of September. I'm with you on your thinking, I'm mostly like smaller than I realize. I'm also accustomed to seeing myself as fat, so that mental image that we all have of ourselves comes into play as well. I get the stitches removed from my hand Monday, the grips I ordered will be here tomorrow and next Friday is the 15th. If the doc will allow it, next week/weekend will be a complete assault on the weights at the gym.

Mentally I'm like a toy windup car, just waiting for the Dr. to let me go!
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      11-07-2019, 05:25 PM   #1440
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Anyone take salt as supplement. Watched stan efferding video about it. Trying it see what happens. Met him few years back at a meet.
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      11-07-2019, 05:37 PM   #1441
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hit the gym earlier today

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      11-07-2019, 07:43 PM   #1442
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i'm terrified to do deadlifts, squats... i can't afford a back injury. fuck that
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      11-07-2019, 07:45 PM   #1443
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Then get stronger so you dont have a back injury from picking up a piece of paper off the floor. Wrong mentality
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      11-07-2019, 07:47 PM   #1444
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i'm terrified to do deadlifts, squats... i can't afford a back injury. fuck that
usually injury is from improper form, too much weight and not checking your ego at the door
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      11-08-2019, 04:54 AM   #1445
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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Anyone take salt as supplement. Watched stan efferding video about it. Trying it see what happens. Met him few years back at a meet.
I do.....Pink Sea Salt. But I found out that my own diet is pretty similar to his "Vertical Dieting" program he released awhile back. Lean beef, Chicken, and Rice are the foods that my body processes very easily. And while at work, I'm always up and around the plant for a brisk walk after eating as he suggests as well.

He is a beast.

I just grind up some in my post-workout shake as I have an unflavored shake anyway. I bet adding the sea salt would be pretty good if someone had a caramel flavor protein drink.
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      11-08-2019, 05:10 AM   #1446
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Originally Posted by Now_Rudi View Post
Glad you touched on this. I thought the same thing last week, so I bought a caliper off amazon and tried it. I'm not sure if I'm doing it exactly as I should be, but based off the chart that came with the caliper, I was surprised to find that the scale is more accurate then I though. I still don't think that it's dead-on, but it was close to what the chart stated. I need to look online and watch some videos, to ensure that I'm using the caliper correctly and check it again tonight. Based off the mirror, they aren't very defined, but the top 4 are clearly visible and the "V" around the hip area is very visible. Funny thing is, that in early morning, in low light, I look facking ripped. The only jiggling area left on me is below the belly button. I had originally planned on cutting til around the 15th of this month, based off my math of calories digested/burned and 500 calorie/day deficiency based off the percentage of what I weighed, when I started this section of the process the first week of September. I'm with you on your thinking, I'm mostly like smaller than I realize. I'm also accustomed to seeing myself as fat, so that mental image that we all have of ourselves comes into play as well. I get the stitches removed from my hand Monday, the grips I ordered will be here tomorrow and next Friday is the 15th. If the doc will allow it, next week/weekend will be a complete assault on the weights at the gym.

Mentally I'm like a toy windup car, just waiting for the Dr. to let me go!
Everyone stores body-fat differently. I know some people who can be ripped everywhere, but store it all in their gut. I tend to store it evenly all over my body which actually is luck in it allows me to look leaner than I really am.

Watch a few videos of the caliper measuring and it's best if you can get someone else to do it so it's consistent. 5 site or 7 site is fine. I usually take 3 measurements of the same area and take the average of it.

I still think you are closer to the 14% range than you give yourself credit for. Also remember that it's always a mind game. When people I have trained start losing fat...they second guess themselves. Without a shirt..they are heavy looking but it does appear solid with no loose skin.

As they cut...it becomes softer and they look in the mirror and see lumps where they were not any before, and start to see skin sagging...and it makes them second guess their progress.

This is all natural as once you get past that, the elasticity of the skin returns and you start seeing progress. I have had people come up to me and say..I had a "cheat day" and I look better than the day before. That's because they filled up their glycogen stores, and the muscle has filled out making the skin and underlying tissue look more solid.

That really screws with their head.

One thing about the calipers. Even if you can't get the use of it down perfectly, hit the areas you can easily reach and keep track of the skin-fold measurements. If they go down say form 10mm to 8mm..you know you are making progress. But dieting isn't the only thing that can help that. Adding muscle reduces that skin-fold measurement too.

I think you have some surprising changes coming your way. As a rough guess I would reduce the cardio you are doing to like we discussed, and put the efforts into the weights. And don't sweat if you don't make huge jumps in weight used....even 1-2lbs more or one more rep than your previous workout is progress. You stack a lot of progress like that together over a period of months and you won't help but to notice it.
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      11-08-2019, 05:13 AM   #1447
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Originally Posted by lsturbointeg View Post
hit the gym earlier today

looking good lsturbointeg ! You have some very long insertion points in the lower head of the triceps. That equates to some serious size being able to be added and gives the arm that sweeping "underbelly" when you flex your arm in a curl. Wide clavicles....I see some good genetics there.

Also I was quite proud of the fat I have gained since starting my bulk.

I don't look like a veiny penis anymore!!
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      11-08-2019, 07:21 AM   #1448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorM3 View Post
i'm terrified to do deadlifts, squats... i can't afford a back injury. fuck that
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Then get stronger so you dont have a back injury from picking up a piece of paper off the floor. Wrong mentality
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsturbointeg View Post
usually injury is from improper form, too much weight and not checking your ego at the door
Some people have bad backs, it's just unfortunate. I trashed my sciatic nerve warming up with 95lbs on front squats last Wednesday with perfect form. Pain finally dissipating Tuesday of this week. Don't get me wrong I'm all for strengthening, but I can't just come in here and bust out 500lbs on the deads like I was a few years back. Ever since I messed something up 2 and a half years ago I have to be careful in the gym. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

Count yourself lucky if you don't have to worry about this bullshit, most frustrating thing in the world.
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      11-08-2019, 07:48 AM   #1449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
Everyone stores body-fat differently. I know some people who can be ripped everywhere, but store it all in their gut. I tend to store it evenly all over my body which actually is luck in it allows me to look leaner than I really am.

Watch a few videos of the caliper measuring and it's best if you can get someone else to do it so it's consistent. 5 site or 7 site is fine. I usually take 3 measurements of the same area and take the average of it.

I still think you are closer to the 14% range than you give yourself credit for. Also remember that it's always a mind game. When people I have trained start losing fat...they second guess themselves. Without a shirt..they are heavy looking but it does appear solid with no loose skin.

As they cut...it becomes softer and they look in the mirror and see lumps where they were not any before, and start to see skin sagging...and it makes them second guess their progress.

This is all natural as once you get past that, the elasticity of the skin returns and you start seeing progress. I have had people come up to me and say..I had a "cheat day" and I look better than the day before. That's because they filled up their glycogen stores, and the muscle has filled out making the skin and underlying tissue look more solid.

That really screws with their head.

One thing about the calipers. Even if you can't get the use of it down perfectly, hit the areas you can easily reach and keep track of the skin-fold measurements. If they go down say form 10mm to 8mm..you know you are making progress. But dieting isn't the only thing that can help that. Adding muscle reduces that skin-fold measurement too.

I think you have some surprising changes coming your way. As a rough guess I would reduce the cardio you are doing to like we discussed, and put the efforts into the weights. And don't sweat if you don't make huge jumps in weight used....even 1-2lbs more or one more rep than your previous workout is progress. You stack a lot of progress like that together over a period of months and you won't help but to notice it.
Story time: So I go home last night, look up a few videos on how to measure with the calipers. I pull the skin, read the calipers.....just a little under 10mm. I go the chart, that came with the calipers, and it states that I'm at 18.9%. I find this hard to believe, but I didn't question it. Just for shits and giggles, I get on the scale this morning and it states 17%, I don't trust this either. I grab the calipers, pinch again, just under 10mm.....I go to the interwebs and find the other chart posted below. Edit, the PDF is the original chart I was using, the one shown below is what I believe to be accurate.

SON OF A BISH!!!! This gentlemen is why it is important to have accurate information.

Check out that on the first chart age 41-45, that 8-9 =13.8, then 10-11 = 18.9, then 12-13 = 17.8. and at the same time
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      11-08-2019, 08:33 AM   #1450
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Is anyone doing; clean&press, clean&jerks, cleans, pause power cleans and snatches ?

Doing all or most of those moves in a day or week/2week split ?
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      11-08-2019, 10:02 AM   #1451
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My Fitbit scale at home tells me I'm a 22-24% depending what I weigh in at. The accuracy on those is awful. Ridiculous lol
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      11-08-2019, 10:10 AM   #1452
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