[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by matbl

"In selected markets"
What that means remain to be seen. China only? EU? NA?

The plan was for all countries.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

The plan was for all countries.

"Over time" in Musk-speak can litteraly mean anything from immediately to 10 years (or never).

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

BMW is in a class of its own given its driving dynamics, design ethos, and build quality/overall solidity.

If you are more concerned with "value" or charging network and don't care for the above qualities then maybe BMW, a brand that produces more driver-oriented cars, is not for you.

I get your value comment but not your charging comment. Without charging, the BEV is a very large and expensive paperweight. It doesn't matter how well the BMW handles if it can't move.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

I get your value comment but not your charging comment. Without charging, the BEV is a very large and expensive paperweight. It doesn't matter how well the BMW handles if it can't move.

I don't think he meant it as an "all or none" regarding charging. I think folks will compromise on various factors to get the balance of attributes they need...the vehicle itself (design to dynamics), purchase price, availability/speed of recharging away from home, range, etc. Each will have their own formula for their preferred selection. I would take a somewhat less extensive charging network as a trade-off for a superior vehicle. Tesla could jump up and down all day about having 50-100 miles more range or ten times the chargers, but would still not offset the negatives versus the entire BMW experience.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I don't think he meant it as an "all or none" regarding charging. I think folks will compromise on various factors to get the balance of attributes they need...the vehicle itself (design to dynamics), purchase price, availability/speed of recharging away from home, range, etc. Each will have their own formula for their preferred selection. I would take a somewhat less extensive charging network as a trade-off for a superior vehicle. Tesla could jump up and down all day about having 50-100 miles more range or ten times the chargers, but would still not offset the negatives versus the entire BMW experience.

I love the handling of my BMW and as I have a 530e, I do have experience with electrification. I have put off purchasing a full BEV because of the charging network (to be more precise, the lack of a charging network). The distance from my home to the nearest electrify america location is about 30 miles. If we were talking about a few charger differences, I could agree with the tradeoff. But there need to be more chargers before I move to a BEV AND the chargers and cars need to have available fast charging (e.g., 800/900 amp systems). I agree with you about the Tesla quality issues which is why I am not yet getting a full BEV.

Tesla has the chargers but not the quality and handling. BMW has the quality and handling but not the charging.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

I love the handling of my BMW and as I have a 530e, I do have experience with electrification. I have put off purchasing a full BEV because of the charging network (to be more precise, the lack of a charging network). The distance from my home to the nearest electrify america location is about 30 miles. If we were talking about a few charger differences, I could agree with the tradeoff. But there need to be more chargers before I move to a BEV AND the chargers and cars need to have available fast charging (e.g., 800/900 amp systems). I agree with you about the Tesla quality issues which is why I am not yet getting a full BEV.

Tesla has the chargers but not the quality and handling. BMW has the quality and handling but not the charging.

I suppose it all depends on lifestyle. I cannot imagine needing charging away from home. We don't take long car trips. The longest is usually to the airport...about 20 minutes. One of the reasons I want any EV is that given the layout of the area where we live, I often do not get up to operating temperature before arriving at my destination...not great for an ICE. 250 mile range would go two-to-three weeks easily.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I suppose it all depends on lifestyle. I cannot imagine needing charging away from home. We don't take long car trips. The longest is usually to the airport...about 20 minutes. One of the reasons I want any EV is that given the layout of the area where we live, I often do not get up to operating temperature before arriving at my destination...not great for an ICE. 250 mile range would go two-to-three weeks easily.

I agree. I am maxed out on my electrical system and I would have to trench my lawn to upgrade from 225 to 400 amps. So I cannot realistically charge a full BEV at home without the trenching.

If I had enough electrons to easily accomplish a full charge overnight, then I would probably be willing to commit earlier. But...that is not a reasonable possibility for me.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

I agree. I am maxed out on my electrical system and I would have to trench my lawn to upgrade from 225 to 400 amps. So I cannot realistically charge a full BEV at home without the trenching.

If I had enough electrons to easily accomplish a full charge overnight, then I would probably be willing to commit earlier. But...that is not a reasonable possibility for me.

225 to 400 amps? That's like ancient tech. You really need to get yourself some 3-phase system with decent voltage in the US.

I have 25 amps into my house and it's plenty to charge a bev at 11 kW (16 amps, 230 volts, 3 phases) during the night.
On a 110 volt single phase system, that would have required 100 amps just for the charging. Ouch...

Not that you can do anything personally about it. More a general observation.

[JustChris]

I made my first visit to a Tesla dealer (Chester) this weekend.

I just say I was really surprised.

I too had read a lot about interior quality. They had a model 3 that I spent some time gong over … and I loved it. I couldn't really fault the set up, comfort and quality perception for the price.

Talking about the U.K. here really but the price of the Tesla surprisingly undercuts the i4 by some margin, and if you need to travel with work greater than the cars range, only the Tesla network makes sense.

There are endless YouTube videos of non T EVs struggling to make charge in daily life. Shmee150 and Harry's Garage you could see are huge EV fans and want it to be good but we're let down by the infrastructure.

Also the product itself, I have to agree with the OP. The AWD Long Range Model 3 (since it's 2021 updates) blows the i4 away. To my knowledge below are some items you have to add to the base i4 to meet spec

Leather seats! (At this price terrible and I know the Tesla isn't leather but at least it's not cloth.)

Comfort Access pack for comfort access and electric seats

Tech Pack or Plus pack for all the camera views

Metallic White (TBF I like Alpine White too)

I'm sure there's plenty more but that alone might be about £8k

The i4s play points vs the Tesla is the larger boot and it's opening and the BMW build quality.

We haven't touched on performance yet at 5.9s 0-60 vs an F82 M4 style 4.1 for the Tesla

To bette that you need to go to the M50i and you're into high £60k then so might as well pitch it vs the Model performance and it's a big win for the Tesla again

[zilla91]

You say it undercuts the i4 but you have to remember Tesla sell their cars at a fixed price whereas you'll always get a chunky discount with BMW

[4monks]

Originally Posted by zilla91

You say it undercuts the i4 but you have to remember Tesla sell their cars at a fixed price whereas you'll always get a chunky discount with BMW

Sadly not much discount with the i4. Maybe later next year but in the UK, limited discount atm. That said, I ordered i4 M50 over an Model 3 P, the later which I have driven. The majority of the tech in the i4 M50 is the same/better than my M340i which significantly trumps the Tesla in my opinion, but each to their own.

[Mazman]

I can get the equivalent of 8850USD off list on a I4 M50
List price with the options I have selected comes in at 98300 USD