Let's Talk Russia (and without the bs)

[Lups]

There is a gazillion Trump and Russia threads, but not one about their end game. This is a thread about why they are meddling. For many Americans it is hard to accept that they did this to you, us in Europe have seen this multiple times before, my country was massively a victim before the social media era:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Note_Crisis so I'm in no way trying to make the Americans feel stupid. They just are good at it, and it is their tradition.

So here is what I think: Putin wants out rich. USA with the sanctions like Magnitsky Act is getting in the way and the old boy is getting anxious to get out.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act

[Joekerr]

That's such BS.

You have violated the rules established by yourself. Ban.

To be honest, I've always thought of the Russians as somewhat eager to always have a little more. Territory / money / vodka - whichever.

So my thoughts is that Putin wanting out rich is a secondary consideration. A nice to get, but he'll advance Russian interests too.

And I think Russian interests are in destabilization and in-fighting everywhere else. That way everyone is too busy looking at that, while they covertly take that "little bit more" somewhere / in some way. Not just territory of course, that being a little more obvious than most...plenty of other ways they can advance their territory effectively without actually physically taking land.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

That's such BS.

You have violated the rules established by yourself. Ban.

To be honest, I've always thought of the Russians as somewhat eager to always have a little more. Territory / money / vodka - whichever.

So my thoughts is that Putin wanting out rich is a secondary consideration. A nice to get, but he'll advance Russian interests too.

And I think Russian interests are in destabilization and in-fighting everywhere else. That way everyone is too busy looking at that, while they covertly take that "little bit more" somewhere / in some way. Not just territory of course, that being a little more obvious than most...plenty of other ways they can advance their territory effectively without actually physically taking land.

Omg did you need a book club thread to copy me?

They don't need more land, that's what they do have. This is about influence, and how to use the billions the top arses have in a country where they won't be shot/ poisoned or killed in some other way.

And okay, you caught me if you think repealing the Magnitsky Act would be the currency trump would work with.

[Captain Blood]

Putin's end game is not about being rich, its about power. Same as Xi Jingpin. They have absolutely no interest in anyone's welfare. Putin wants to rule like his hero never got to (Andropov).

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

Putin's end game is not about being rich, its about power. Same as Xi Jingpin. They have absolutely no interest in anyone's welfare. Putin wants to rule like his hero never got to (Andropov).

Hey you can find the posts, go fetch and repost them here. I can't remember which thread it was but we all had a moment of sanity to expand from and those were the reason to start this one.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Lups

Omg did you need a book club thread to copy me?

They don't need more land, that's what they do have. This is about influence, and how to use the billions the top arses have in a country where they won't be shot/ poisoned or killed in some other way.

And okay, you caught me if you think repealing the Magnitsky Act would be the currency trump would work with.

Its not so much land as I said before (though it could be - especially if there are rich natural resources there), because that is sort of obvious when they do that.

I see it more covert. Cyberspace, space itself and tech advancements here, significant influence interests in certain industries in foreign countries, politicians in their back pocket, etc. All of that advances their territory without physically taking land.

[Law]

Originally Posted by Lups

Omg did you need a book club thread to copy me?

They don't need more land, that's what they do have. This is about influence, and how to use the billions the top arses have in a country where they won't be shot/ poisoned or killed in some other way.

And okay, you caught me if you think repealing the Magnitsky Act would be the currency trump would work with.

The thing about Russia is that they don't need more land in terms of area, but they need more land that is more strategic.
Let's call it useful land, shall we?

Russia has a huge geography problem.
They have the largest land by area but much of it is inhospitable and cannot be used for agriculture.
They have one of the largest coastlines but almost all of it is useless, particularly during winter.
In other words, no warm water ports exist in Russia's traditional geography.

Now, Russia has a few warm-ports under their control (Kaliningrad, Vladivostok, and Crimea). All in strategic locations.
Russia pulled some shady stuff through a combination of war and political strategy in Manchuria (Treaty of Aigun), and in East Prussia (Expulsion of Germans) to gain the strategic warm-water ports of Königsberg (Kaliningrad) on the Baltic Sea and Haishenwai (Vladivostok) on the Sea of Japan.
I don't need to explain how Crimea happened, but again it has nothing to do with land gain and everything to do with strategic access/control to/of the Black Sea.

Geopolitically speaking, these access points give Russia the ability to counterbalance regional powers, since Russian territory is so expansive.
In the present day, Kaliningrad and Crimea basically serve to counterbalance NATO and Vladivostok serves to counterbalance the United States in the Pacific and Northeast Asia (Japan/South Korea).

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by Law

The thing about Russia is that they don't need more land in terms of area, but they need more land that is more strategic.
Let's call it useful land, shall we?

Russia has a huge geography problem.
They have the largest land by area but much of it is inhospitable and cannot be used for agriculture.
They have one of the largest coastlines but almost all of it is useless, particularly during winter.
In other words, no warm water ports exist in Russia's traditional geography.

Now, Russia has a few warm-ports under their control (Kaliningrad, Vladivostok, and Crimea). All in strategic locations.
Russia pulled some shady stuff through a combination of war and political strategy in Manchuria (Treaty of Aigun), and in East Prussia (Expulsion of Germans) to gain the strategic warm-water ports of Königsberg (Kaliningrad) on the Baltic Sea and Haishenwai (Vladivostok) on the Sea of Japan.
I don't need to explain how Crimea happened, but again it has nothing to do with land gain and everything to do with strategic access/control to/of the Black Sea.

Geopolitically speaking, these access points give Russia the ability to counterbalance regional powers, since Russian territory is so expansive.
In the present day, Kaliningrad and Crimea basically serve to counterbalance NATO and Vladivostok serves to counterbalance the United States in the Pacific and Northeast Asia (Japan/South Korea).

I was surprised when the Ukrainian crisis hit that Russian tanks did not sweep the country in 24hrs.. this also tells me Putin is a good chess player a dangerous one.

Lups, all Putin wants is alil love.. you Finns should give him sum

[Law]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

I was surprised when the Ukrainian crisis hit that Russian tanks did not sweep the country in 24hrs.. this also tells me Putin is a good chess player a dangerous one.

Lups, all Putin wants is alil love.. you Finns should give him sum

Yup. Taking the rest of Ukraine would just result in more useless land and a having to deal with a population that would be hostile to Moscow.
More administration, more trouble, little-to-no gain economically or politically.

The Crimean Peninsula, on the other hand, is the only part of Ukraine that has any useful purpose to Russia in this game of chess.
It was also convenient that ethnic Russians outnumber ethnic Ukrainians in that region.

[Lups]

It's Friday and you people make me read...

[Lups]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

I was surprised when the Ukrainian crisis hit that Russian tanks did not sweep the country in 24hrs.. this also tells me Putin is a good chess player a dangerous one.

Lups, all Putin wants is alil love.. you Finns should give him sum

Putin wants love, and he knows from where to get it. Fuck, we even took in hitler over Stalin .


... And we see him as worse.

Originally Posted by Law

Yup. Taking the rest of Ukraine would just result in more useless land and a having to deal with a population that would be hostile to Moscow.
More administration, more trouble, little-to-no gain economically or politically.

The Crimean Peninsula, on the other hand, is the only part of Ukraine that has any useful purpose to Russia in this game of chess.
It was also convenient that ethnic Russians outnumber ethnic Ukrainians in that region.

Ukraine was moving towards the eu, and the Ukrainians i have met this year tell me (no matter what they are seen, Russian Ukrainians or Ukrainians, or Ukrainian Russians) that they all after the news coverage from your elections, they now understand how they were used.

I would really want to talk about the end game. My republican friends keep telling me this too: This is not about Russia as a country, this is not about the Russian people. This is about a small number of Russians with money.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by Lups

Putin wants love, and he knows from where to get it. Fuck, we even took in hitler over Stalin .


... And we see him as worse.


Ukraine was moving towards the eu, and the Ukrainians i have met this year tell me (no matter what they are seen, Russian Ukrainians or Ukrainians, or Ukrainian Russians) that they all after the news coverage from your elections, they now understand how they were used.

I would really want to talk about the end game. My republican friends keep telling me this too: This is not about Russia as a country, this is not about the Russian people. This is about a small number of Russians with money.

If you are speaking seriously there is no end-game
its an ever continuous game of power
and yes its really not Russians vs Americans etc though via MSM it ends up that way.. that ordinary folks die and kill other ordinary folks from other countries for no good reason except what theyre told
Its usually about the rich guys.. fighting a turf war with other rich guys
case in point
Gazprom gas pipelines thru Ukraine and the gas pipeline from Qatar and eventually via turkey.. these are large factors in the fight determining many of the issues in that region today.. the divided factions (kurd, free Syrians, AlQaeda, ISIS) and payrolling this side over that side make them small pawns in the game its all about $$$ and power

[Lups]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

If you are speaking seriously there is no end-game
its an ever continuous game of power
and yes its really not Russians vs Americans etc though via MSM it ends up that way.. that ordinary folks die and kill other ordinary folks from other countries for no good reason except what theyre told
Its usually about the rich guys.. fighting a turf war with other rich guys
case in point
Gazprom gas pipelines thru Ukraine and the gas pipeline from Qatar and eventually via turkey.. these are large factors in the fight determining many of the issues in that region today.. the divided factions (kurd, free Syrians, AlQaeda, ISIS) and payrolling this side over that side make them small pawns in the game its all about $$$ and power

There is always an end game. And I'm very serious. This has happed to us Finns, but then the end game was not to decide us.

[Zugzwang]

Putin just paid off very old debts to a very powerful banking system that controls 99% of the worlds banks and kicked them out of russia. They are a truly free country.

Their endgame is to be free.

Or maybe im fully deluded. Probably.

[Zugzwang]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

If you are speaking seriously there is no end-game
its an ever continuous game of power
and yes its really not Russians vs Americans etc though via MSM it ends up that way.. that ordinary folks die and kill other ordinary folks from other countries for no good reason except what theyre told
Its usually about the rich guys.. fighting a turf war with other rich guys
case in point
Gazprom gas pipelines thru Ukraine and the gas pipeline from Qatar and eventually via turkey.. these are large factors in the fight determining many of the issues in that region today.. the divided factions (kurd, free Syrians, AlQaeda, ISIS) and payrolling this side over that side make them small pawns in the game its all about $$$ and power

Those factions you speak of are only the puppets. Look a little deeper into who is pulling the strings and a whole new world of information will open up to you.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Zugzwang

Putin just paid off very old debts to a very powerful banking system that controls 99% of the worlds banks and kicked them out of russia. They are a truly free country.

Their endgame is to be free.

Or maybe im fully deluded. Probably.

The liard overlord thread is one below this.

[Zugzwang]

Originally Posted by Lups

The liard overlord thread is one below this.

??

Would you rather keep in vanilla and fit for cnn?

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Zugzwang

??

Would you rather keep in vanilla and fit for cnn?

My record shows no love for vanilla, and i don't do tv.

[Ali Shiralian]

Russia manipulates every country for self interest. Today they side with Iran and sell anti ballistic missile technology and next day they sell a different one to Saudi Arabia. They also side with Israel and offer assistance to Assad regime. One can not figure out where they're heading any day of the week as their influence is all over the place. Too much has been made of the Russian Meddling in US affairs where US and everyone in the US has got their shorts in a knot when the primary reason for existence of the CIA is to interfere in other country's affairs and that seems to be ok. The US is getting a taste of their own medicin and they don't like it. Russia does not care about any other country and I'd go as far as saying not even their own citizens other than the hierarchy of their government. Other countries have had a taste of Russian interference for a long time and it will not stop anytime soon. Better get used to it folks...

Have a great evening.

[Zugzwang]

Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian

Russia manipulates every country for self interest. Today they side with Iran and sell anti ballistic missile technology and next day they sell a different one to Saudi Arabia. They also side with Israel and offer assistance to Assad regime. One can not figure out where they're heading any day of the week as their influence is all over the place. Too much has been made of the Russian Meddling in US affairs where US and everyone in the US has got their shorts in a knot when the primary reason for existence of the CIA is to interfere in other country's affairs and that seems to be ok. The US is getting a taste of their own medicin and they don't like it. Russia does not care about any other country and I'd go as far as saying not even their own citizens other than the hierarchy of their government. Other countries have had a taste of Russian interference for a long time and it will not stop anytime soon. Better get used to it folks...

Have a great evening.

Arent the usa and brits and a few other powers all doing the sane?

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian

Russia manipulates every country for self interest. Today they side with Iran and sell anti ballistic missile technology and next day they sell a different one to Saudi Arabia. They also side with Israel and offer assistance to Assad regime. One can not figure out where they're heading any day of the week as their influence is all over the place. Too much has been made of the Russian Meddling in US affairs where US and everyone in the US has got their shorts in a knot when the primary reason for existence of the CIA is to interfere in other country's affairs and that seems to be ok. The US is getting a taste of their own medicin and they don't like it. Russia does not care about any other country and I'd go as far as saying not even their own citizens other than the hierarchy of their government. Other countries have had a taste of Russian interference for a long time and it will not stop anytime soon. Better get used to it folks...

Have a great evening.

Pittens. Putin is almost 70 and needs an out.


I think it is lovely that we both are on a mood this fantastic at the same time. The optimism you and i ooze could literally light up a match.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Putin has also a good side !